A Realistic View at 2017 Part I

[harmony]

Sandoval going back to SF isn't as ridiculous as you seem to think it is. They currently have a need at 3rd, they are obviously built to compete now and there's a history there. I think that the Sox would have to pick up some of his remaining contract even if Cain is included and probably throw in an A ball prospect with some upside at the minimum, but mentioning Benintendi & Moncada IS laughable.

 

If the Sox decide to move either of those guys (Benintendi isn't going anywhere), then they'll be part of a package for an all star type player in return.

I question San Francisco's need for third baseman with baseball's worst WAR over the past two seasons.

 

This year the Giants finished in the middle of the pack in third-base WAR despite only two months of returning third baseman Eduardo Nunez, who posted a 2016 fWAR of 2.7.

Edited November 26, 2016 by harmony

[Eddy Ballgame]

I question San Francisco's need for third baseman with baseball's worst WAR over the past two seasons.

 

This year the Giants finished in the middle of the pack in third-base WAR despite only two months of returning third baseman Eduardo Suarez, who posted a 2016 fWAR of 2.7.

 

Nunez has much more value to the Giants in a super utility role & probably gets exposed as an every day 3rd baseman.

 

How much Sandoval's shoulder affected him the last two years is debatable, but I seriously doubt they project Sandoval to repeat his WAR "value" over the last 2 years.

[Spudboy]

I have been Pablo's biggest supporter here, but if a reasonable deal can be made, I would do it. It's not because I don't think Pablo can return to decency and maybe even be an upgrade over what we had in 2016, but because I don't think Pablo will ever be given a truly fair shake while he's in Boston. Many of the fans and media have already made up their mind on him.

 

It's hard to be successful under that kind of scrutiny.

 

Maybe so Kimmi. But Hanley turned it around.

 

Of course Hanley has always been a superior athlete to Pablo.

[moonslav59]

I want no part of Matt Cain.

 

Even if he never pitches an inning for us, we'd save $30M with a straight up trade.

[Spudboy]

We in this baseball community need to have a long hard think about why we make it so hard for players. Passion is one thing, I get passion, but past a certain point it's pretty clear that we're our own worst enemy. When a player coming to Boston has to worry about surviving the fanbase as well as enduring the season, there's a problem.

 

Boston is a demanding market. Everything is expensive here and no one wants to get gypped. Pablo was a likely failure from the get go.

 

Lots of less talented players in several sports survive and even thrive here. This town and market loves underdogs. But an average player brought in on a mega contract is going to have a bulls eye on him and deservedly so.

 

f*** Pablo.

[moonslav59]

I'll take all the verbal, emotional and mental abuse aw hole city can muster for $95M.

 

Heck, I'd take it for $95K.

[harmony]

I'm not sure if you've ever seen Benintendi play, but he has one of the purist left handed swings I've seen in the last 25 years. If he's not a "sure thing" at this point, then no one is.

I have not seen Andrew Benintendi play in person but I witnessed the pure left-handed swing of Dustin Ackley coming up.

[a700hitter]

Even if he never pitches an inning for us, we'd save $30M with a straight up trade.

Give away Pablo and eat everything except $30 million. Same thing.

[Eddy Ballgame]

I have not seen Andrew Benintendi play in person but I witnessed the pure left-handed swing of Dustin Ackley coming up.

 

Baseball is a mental game. Maybe when Jay Buhner referred to Ackley as a "mental midget," it might explain why Ackley has been a bust as a former #2 overall pick. Andrew Bentinendi has given no indication that he struggles with the mental aspect of baseball.

[harmony]

Baseball is a mental game. Maybe when Jay Buhner referred to Ackley as a "mental midget," it might explain why Ackley has been a bust as a former #2 overall pick. Andrew Bentinendi has given no indication that he struggles with the mental aspect of baseball.

I hope you're right but there are no sure-things.

[Bellhorn04]

I hope you're right but there are no sure-things.

 

Oh, I think there have been a few.

[harmony]

Oh, I think there have been a few.

Only in hindsight.😊

[Eddy Ballgame]

Only in hindsight.😊

 

I can think of two former Seattle Mariners who were "can't miss" before they ever put on the uniform.

[moonslav59]

Give away Pablo and eat everything except $30 million. Same thing.

 

Why not get a guy like Cain who may turn things around? If he doesn't, we're even with just giving the other team $30M.

 

If we come up against a roster crunch, then we can just cut or trade Cain away.

[Spudboy]

I'll take all the verbal, emotional and mental abuse aw hole city can muster for $95M.

 

Heck, I'd take it for $95K.

 

Can't be any worse than being married to a Russian woman.

[moonslav59]

MLB Offers To Remove Draft Pick Forfeiture In Next CBA

By Charlie Wilmoth | November 26, 2016 at 3:52pm CDT

 

A lockout is still a possibility as the league and the union negotiate the next CBA in advance of Thursday’s deadline, but there are strong hopes it can be avoided after MLB offered to remove the current system of draft pick forfeiture associated with the qualifying offer, Jon Heyman of Fan Rag Sports writes. Such a change would make MLB free agency “the freest free agency in sports,” in the words of one of Heyman’s sources. In return, the league wants the players to agree to an international draft.

 

Under the current system, if a player refuses a qualifying offer, interested teams must give up a top draft choice to sign him. The players dislike this rule because it reduces the market value of players on the edges of the qualifying offer system — including, in recent years, players like Ian Desmond, Kendrys Morales, Stephen Drew and Nelson Cruz. Recently, players such as Neil Walker, Jeremy Hellickson and Brett Anderson have accepted qualifying offers, receiving less long-term security than they perhaps would have gotten on the open market.

 

The players also do not like the idea of an international draft, which would affect prospects throughout Latin America. Heyman writes, though, that draft pick forfeiture is considerably more costly to them than an international draft would be, particularly since a significant percentage of international bonuses go to players who don’t make the Majors.

 

Still, there are other topics that must be resolved, Heyman notes. One issue is the luxury tax threshold — the league has reportedly agreed to increase it from $189MM to $200MM, but the two sides have not agreed on a final number.

 

FOX Sports’ Ken Rosenthal had previously reported that a lockout was a possibility. Reporting since then from Buster Olney and Jayson Stark of ESPN has suggested that there was reason for optimism that a deal could be completed.

[a700hitter]

Why not get a guy like Cain who may turn things around? If he doesn't, we're even with just giving the other team $30M.

 

If we come up against a roster crunch, then we can just cut or trade Cain away.

Cain is through. He is not worth the investment of time and a roster spot. Go in a different direction. I'd rather give away Pablo.

[Bellhorn04]

Matt Cain - one more example of how hard pitching is on the human arm. I would have thought he'd have a long career. Seemed like a big strong guy with a normal throwing motion.

[moonslav59]

Maybe he can be converted to a RP'er.

[moonslav59]

Talk is the luxury tax limit may only go up to $200M. If the Sox try to stay near the limit, they will not have much to spend this winter, unless they are able to dump salary some where.

 

I have us close to $185M right now. That doesn't leave enough room to sign just Beltran and G Holland.

Edited November 27, 2016 by moonslav59

[harmony]

Sandoval going back to SF isn't as ridiculous as you seem to think it is. They currently have a need at 3rd, they are obviously built to compete now and there's a history there. I think that the Sox would have to pick up some of his remaining contract even if Cain is included and probably throw in an A ball prospect with some upside at the minimum, but mentioning Benintendi & Moncada IS laughable.

 

If the Sox decide to move either of those guys (Benintendi isn't going anywhere), then they'll be part of a package for an all star type player in return.

The San Francisco front office denies discussing Pablo Sandoval:

 

http://m.giants.mlb.com/news/article/209693506/giants-deny-talks-to-bring-back-pablo-sandoval/

[Kimmi]

Maybe so Kimmi. But Hanley turned it around.

 

Of course Hanley has always been a superior athlete to Pablo.

 

I'm not questioning Pablo's potential to turn it around. I have said many times that Pablo needs to be given a fair chance to be our starting 3B and that it would be in the team's best interest for him to be successful in that role. Personally, I want him to be our everyday 3B with Shaw playing a utility role. That would be my best case scenario, allowing Moncada the time he needs in AAA.

 

The impression that I get from most posters here is that they want nothing to do with Pablo. If it were up them, Pablo would be gone, even if it meant just releasing him and eating all of his remaining salary. I may be wrong, but I don't think he'd get a favorable reaction on the field unless he played lights out. Being 'mediocre', which would be an improvement over what we had last year, would not cut it from him in the eyes of the fans and media.

 

That is my only reason for being on board with trading him, not because I don't want him on the team or because I don't think he can turn it around.

 

As an aside, I've heard that he looks really, really good right now. Whether he shows up to camp looking as good remains to be seen.

[Kimmi]

Boston is a demanding market. Everything is expensive here and no one wants to get gypped. Pablo was a likely failure from the get go.

 

Lots of less talented players in several sports survive and even thrive here. This town and market loves underdogs. But an average player brought in on a mega contract is going to have a bulls eye on him and deservedly so.

 

f*** Pablo.

 

And this post more or less supports my point in my previous post. You have already condemned him for the upcoming season.

 

Pablo was likely going to be a failure in the back end of his contract. He should not have been a failure for the first two years. He was a pretty good 3B and can still be one.

[Kimmi]

Why not get a guy like Cain who may turn things around? If he doesn't, we're even with just giving the other team $30M.

 

If we come up against a roster crunch, then we can just cut or trade Cain away.

 

Of course this makes sense. If you have a choice between not getting anything or getting something that might help you even a little, you go with the latter.

[southpaw777]

And this post more or less supports my point in my previous post. You have already condemned him for the upcoming season.

 

Pablo was likely going to be a failure in the back end of his contract. He should not have been a failure for the first two years. He was a pretty good 3B and can still be one.

 

I think a lot of people/fans, like me, are mostly pissed because he acted like he didnt really care and had this whatever attitude. He didnt even care enough to work harder on his diet and exercise after stealing 95m for the organization. I think if his attitude was better and fans thought he actually tried hard to change there would be more forgiving..

[Bellhorn04]

Pablo still has the opportunity to get fans back on his side. It's all on him.

[notin]

I think a lot of people/fans, like me, are mostly pissed because he acted like he didnt really care and had this whatever attitude. He didnt even care enough to work harder on his diet and exercise after stealing 95m for the organization. I think if his attitude was better and fans thought he actually tried hard to change there would be more forgiving..

 

No. Its 100% about results.

 

If Sandoval acted the way he did during a great season, fans would praise his attitude and call him a great clubhouse guy. But as it was after a bad season, he clearly must not care. If he tried hard and failed, would fans really love him? Matt Clement pitched himself into the ground for the Sox. Any love? John Lackey struggled heavily for two years in Boston, and all his intensity on the field was held against him by fans. Sure we all learned to love Lackey. Coincidentally when he started pitching better.

 

Sandoval's still the same guy with the same passions as he was in San Francisco.

[Bellhorn04]

Pablo did look pretty bad last spring. And the team showed pretty quickly that they weren't too excited about the way he looked and that Shaw was competing with him for the opening day spot.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe the fans are too harsh, but it's not a good look for a third baseman when you have a huge slab of blubber hanging over your belt and you seem to be having difficulty making the most routine fielding plays, especially after the positive report about your condition.

 

I also wonder what Pablo was thinking choosing Boston over San Fran where he was so successful and popular. The money reportedly wasn't much different.

[Kimmi]

I think a lot of people/fans, like me, are mostly pissed because he acted like he didnt really care and had this whatever attitude. He didnt even care enough to work harder on his diet and exercise after stealing 95m for the organization. I think if his attitude was better and fans thought he actually tried hard to change there would be more forgiving..

 

I can understand fans being upset with Pablo for not being in great baseball shape. What I don't like are the assumptions being made about him concerning things like him not caring or having a bad attitude. My understanding is that Pablo has always been willing to work out and that he is not lazy, but that he has a serious binge eating problem. I would guess that changing something like that, much like kicking a drug habit or alcoholism, is easier said than done.

 

I have no way a knowing for sure, but I honestly don't think that Pablo doesn't care or that he has a whatever attitude.