Looking ahead to 2017

[moonslav59]

I was against the Kimbrel trade--that one still bothers me. I hated giving Price all that money but I supported it because the Red Sox needed to upgrade their rotation. I supported the Pomeranz deal, but I now have doubts about it.

 

I understood the need to get an ace. I agreed that of all the pitchers on the market, Price looked like the safest bet of all. I'm not going to beat DD upf or spending long and large on Price. It was nice not to lose a pick over him. That being said, the cost was too high. I preferred Cueto....injury risk and all.

[Dojji]

I didn't. Cueto's playoff numbers aren't as bad as Price's but they're still bad.

 

Would't have minded bagging Cueto, but I can def understand the desire for Price. He's pitched in this division for one thing, and he's always been a very very durable starter, this year not being an exception to that.

[Nick]

I didn't. Cueto's playoff numbers aren't as bad as Price's but they're still bad.

 

Would't have minded bagging Cueto, but I can def understand the desire for Price. He's pitched in this division for one thing, and he's always been a very very durable starter, this year not being an exception to that.

 

For the money spent, I thought Price was the 'safe' bet. It's hard for me to project NL pitchers in AL East. No DH, bigger ball parks. Fly balls turning into doubles in Fenway. Price not only pitched in AL, but in AL East.

[Eddy Ballgame]

For the money spent, I thought Price was the 'safe' bet. It's hard for me to project NL pitchers in AL East. No DH, bigger ball parks. Fly balls turning into doubles in Fenway. Price not only pitched in AL, but in AL East.

 

I agree...Price also has the make-up to be the staff leader, mentor young pitching, stay out of trouble, handle the Boston market, etc....Much more significant factors ever since the Gonzalez/Crawford contracts.

 

Although none of this would've ever mattered if Larry Lucchino didn't completely

butcher the Lester negotiations with an initial offer that was so out of touch with the market.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Eddy Ballgame

[Nick]

I agree...Price also has the make-up to be the staff leader, mentor young pitching, stay out of trouble, handle the Boston market, etc....Much more significant factors ever since the Gonzalez/Crawford contracts.

 

Although none of this would've ever mattered if Larry Lucchino didn't completely

butcher the Lester negotiations with an initial offer that was so out of touch with the market.

 

Yep, that ones going to hurt for few more years as Cubs will be on the front page.

[moonslav59]

For the money spent, I thought Price was the 'safe' bet. It's hard for me to project NL pitchers in AL East. No DH, bigger ball parks. Fly balls turning into doubles in Fenway. Price not only pitched in AL, but in AL East.

 

Stats like ERA- capture park differentials and strength of offenses faced, and Cueto was always near the top.

 

2011-2015 ERA-

58 Kershaw

69 Cueto

69 harvey

72 deGrom

72 Medlin

73 Sale

75 Greinke

76 Lee

77 Gray

78 Darvish

78 Price

 

 

[Kimmi]

Agreed. I'm worried Dombrowski will trade away too many prospects, and it sounds like the industry has a very high opinion of Hazen.

 

If I had my choice, the Diamondbacks hire Dombrowski and Red Sox promote Hazen. LOL.

 

If it were up to me, Ben would still be here seeing his plan come to fruition.

 

I am not a fan of what I perceive to be Dombrowski's philosophy in building a team. I share your concerns about him trading away the farm.

 

That said, he hasn't yet done anything too damaging to the long term outlook of our team. I'm keeping my eye on him though. LOL

[moonslav59]

If it were up to me, Ben would still be here seeing his plan come to fruition.

 

I am not a fan of what I perceive to be Dombrowski's philosophy in building a team. I share your concerns about him trading away the farm.

 

That said, he hasn't yet done anything too damaging to the long term outlook of our team. I'm keeping my eye on him though. LOL

 

I feel just about the same way. I give a long leash to our GMs. I've disagreed with all three of DD's biggest deals, but I'm far from ready to suggest he should be replaced.

[oldtimer]

If it were up to me, Ben would still be here seeing his plan come to fruition.

 

I am not a fan of what I perceive to be Dombrowski's philosophy in building a team. I share your concerns about him trading away the farm.

 

That said, he hasn't yet done anything too damaging to the long term outlook of our team. I'm keeping my eye on him though. LOL

 

Well, Ben has been hired by others. Lets see how well he does in his new position. I like him where he is now so he can't make the acquisitions he got for the Sox. I do give him credit for holding on to his young stars in the making though.

[oldtimer]

I understood the need to get an ace. I agreed that of all the pitchers on the market, Price looked like the safest bet of all. I'm not going to beat DD upf or spending long and large on Price. It was nice not to lose a pick over him. That being said, the cost was too high. I preferred Cueto....injury risk and all.

 

Price has value to the team as a guy who will win a lot of games and eat a lot of innings, being very durable. What he doesn't seem to be is a playoff pitcher. Porcello should have been but his last two starts were lamentable. Hard to know why. Very possibly, if we get to the playoffs next season, Porcello will be our game 1 playoff starter and E-Rod our game 2 starter unless DD finds a value trade for top starting talent.

[harmony]

I feel just about the same way. I give a long leash to our GMs. I've disagreed with all three of DD's biggest deals, but I'm far from ready to suggest he should be replaced.

Remember when the Carson Smith trade was considered a big deal?

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/12/redsox-trade-wade-miley-mariners.html

 

The jury is still out on that one as the Red Sox await the return of the reliever.

 

Wade Miley posted 0.6 fWAR and 0.4 bWAR in 19 starts for Seattle before being traded for another lefthander, Ariel Miranda, who posted 0.0 fWAR and 0.9 bWAR in 11 appearances with the Mariners. Jonathan Aro posted 0.0 fWAR in one appearance in Seattle while Carson Smith posted 0.0 fWAR in three appearances and Roenis Elias a negative 0.2 fWAR in three appearances in Boston.

 

Smith remains under team control for four years although the righthander is expected to miss the first months of the 2017 season. Elias likely remains under team control for five years (including four arbitration seasons), Miranda for six years and Aro for six years.

 

In the end the trade may have little impact on either team.

[moonslav59]

Remember when the Carson Smith trade was considered a big deal?

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/12/redsox-trade-wade-miley-mariners.html

 

The jury is still out on that one as the Red Sox await the return of the reliever.

 

Wade Miley posted 0.6 fWAR and 0.4 bWAR in 19 starts for Seattle before being traded for another lefthander, Ariel Miranda, who posted 0.0 fWAR and 0.9 bWAR in 11 appearances with the Mariners. Jonathan Aro posted 0.0 fWAR in one appearance in Seattle while Carson Smith posted 0.0 fWAR in three appearances and Roenis Elias a negative 0.2 fWAR in three appearances in Boston.

 

Smith remains under team control for four years although the righthander is expected to miss the first months of the 2017 season. Elias likely remains under team control for five years (including four arbitration seasons), Miranda for six years and Aro for six years.

 

In the end the trade may have little impact on either team.

 

Where did you hear Smith will miss the first months of 2017?

[Dojji]

Standard practice with TJ

[moonslav59]

Standard practice with TJ

 

Thought the time was now more like 7-9 months.

[Dojji]

I think it's gonna take as long as it takes, I know they're not gonna rush Smith back to the bullpen before they're sure he's ready.

[moonslav59]

I think it's gonna take as long as it takes, I know they're not gonna rush Smith back to the bullpen before they're sure he's ready.

 

Agreed, but the protocol has changed sine the old days, and 9 months from the surgery on 5-24-16 is still before ST'ing, so who knows...

[harmony]

Where did you hear Smith will miss the first months of 2017?

Earlier this month the Boston Globe reported on Carson Smith: "After undergoing Tommy John surgery, he’ll probably miss at least half of 2017 too."

 

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2016/10/03/final-regular-season-red-sox-player-power-rankings-win-dance-repeat

 

The Providence Journal last week reported that Carson Smith "could be an option for the second half of the season."

 

http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/20161013/red-sox-roster-reset-biggest-bullpen-improvements-figure-to-come-from-within

[moonslav59]

Earlier this month the Boston Globe reported on Carson Smith: "After undergoing Tommy John surgery, he’ll probably miss at least half of 2017 too."

 

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2016/10/03/final-regular-season-red-sox-player-power-rankings-win-dance-repeat

 

The Providence Journal last week reported that Carson Smith "could be an option for the second half of the season."

 

http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/20161013/red-sox-roster-reset-biggest-bullpen-improvements-figure-to-come-from-within

 

I wonder why our guy needs more time than others.

[harmony]

I wonder why our guy needs more time than others.

Because not all injuries are of equal severity?

[Kimmi]

Remember when the Carson Smith trade was considered a big deal?

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/12/redsox-trade-wade-miley-mariners.html

 

The jury is still out on that one as the Red Sox await the return of the reliever.

 

Wade Miley posted 0.6 fWAR and 0.4 bWAR in 19 starts for Seattle before being traded for another lefthander, Ariel Miranda, who posted 0.0 fWAR and 0.9 bWAR in 11 appearances with the Mariners. Jonathan Aro posted 0.0 fWAR in one appearance in Seattle while Carson Smith posted 0.0 fWAR in three appearances and Roenis Elias a negative 0.2 fWAR in three appearances in Boston.

 

Smith remains under team control for four years although the righthander is expected to miss the first months of the 2017 season. Elias likely remains under team control for five years (including four arbitration seasons), Miranda for six years and Aro for six years.

 

In the end the trade may have little impact on either team.

 

The Carson Smith trade was the one Dombrowski trade that I really, really liked.

[moonslav59]

The Carson Smith trade was the one Dombrowski trade that I really, really liked.

 

I hated the idea of trading away our best wire-to-wires starter, but it looked like we had 6 good starters and we needed a solid RP'er. I liked the trade too.

 

The Ziegler deal was a good one, too.

[Kimmi]

I hated the idea of trading away our best wire-to-wires starter, but it looked like we had 6 good starters and we needed a solid RP'er. I liked the trade too.

 

The Ziegler deal was a good one, too.

 

Agreed. I liked the Ziegler deal too.

[Northern Star]

Ryan Howard is available.....

[oldtimer]

Thinking of the lineup for 2017

 

1. Benentendi/Pedroia

2. Benentendi/Pedroia

3. Betts

4. DH (Beltran/Young)

5. Rameriz

6. Bogaerts

7. Bradley

8. Leon/Swihart/Vazquez

9. Holt/Shaw/Sandoval

 

If we are fortunate enough to get Beltran, I like our 1 through 7, after that it is a crap shoot.

[moonslav59]

Thinking of the lineup for 2017

 

1. Benentendi/Pedroia

2. Benentendi/Pedroia

3. Betts

4. DH (Beltran/Young)

5. Rameriz

6. Bogaerts

7. Bradley

8. Leon/Swihart/Vazquez

9. Holt/Shaw/Sandoval

 

I think this looks about right.

 

I'd love to see Beni lead off, but too much pressure might hurt him.

 

I'd flip JBJ and Bogey vs RHPs. (keep as is vs LHPs)

[southpaw777]

I think this looks about right.

 

I'd love to see Beni lead off, but too much pressure might hurt him.

 

I'd flip JBJ and Bogey vs RHPs. (keep as is vs LHPs)

 

I dont think he would feel any pressure leading off. The kid is a ballplayer and seems like he could handle it and stay within himself. I suggested it last year. Seems like the perfect leadoff guy like Betts was. Has the good BA/OBP and has some speed to be a threat on the basepaths...My guess is Beni could also have that power and move down to the meat of the order, but for now I like him leading off.

I wouldnt complain either way though.

[moonslav59]

I dont think he would feel any pressure leading off. The kid is a ballplayer and seems like he could handle it and stay within himself. I suggested it last year. Seems like the perfect leadoff guy like Betts was. Has the good BA/OBP and has some speed to be a threat on the basepaths...My guess is Beni could also have that power and move down to the meat of the order, but for now I like him leading off.

I wouldnt complain either way though.

 

I agree, but we have yet to see how he handles a slump.

[OH FOY]

Only Player I want to sign if I'm losing a pick is Kenley Jansen. Money is a wonderful thing, people have a easier time to change their role if the price is right. It also sends a message to Kimbrel, who could be dealt for young talent, when a team like the Cubs, or Dodgers might be looking for in July.

It's like Haley's Comet, 3 of the best Relievers on the Market at same time, Sox should be in on it.

I'm convinced that Jansen could be a multiple inning Pitcher to shorten up the game more.

[mvp 78]

For Jansen's career: 409 games, 408.2 innings.

 

I'm not convinced his a multiple inning guy. In 2016, he pitched 1+ innings only 6 times. He hasn't pitched 2 full innings since 2013.

[moonslav59]

For Jansen's career: 409 games, 408.2 innings.

 

I'm not convinced his a multiple inning guy. In 2016, he pitched 1+ innings only 6 times. He hasn't pitched 2 full innings since 2013.

 

Agreed, but 69 IP is very nice.