Starting Rotation---question

[bosoxmal]

Wanna guess when our two pitching coaches decide to go to a 6-man rotation? Including Buchholz? Seems inevitable to me. Especially if Toronto's works for them. It's only a question "when" that Buchholz gets a start.

[mvp 78]

Never.

[illinoisredsox]

Only way they use a 6th starter is if they have a doubleheader.

[SoxnCycles]

How about a platoon?

Get Clay going in the pen whenever Price starts a fifth inning.

[Kimmi]

How about a platoon?

Get Clay going in the pen whenever Price starts a fifth inning.

 

LOL

 

#Clayforstarter

[SoxnCycles]

lol

 

#clayforstarter

 

lol

[a700hitter]

How about a platoon?

Get Clay going in the pen whenever Price starts a fifth inning.

That would be "piggybacking" not a platoon. Get your terms straight.

[Spudboy]

LOL

 

#Clayforstarter

 

The thing is that Clay has looked pretty solid for a while now. Maybe Good Buch is available finally?

 

I have a feeling that he will start again and contribute. Just my opinion, of course.

[Maxbialystock]

I don't know about starting, but Buchholz is looking better and better in relief and is probably right now our best choice for long relief. FWIW, Price has pitched more innings than any other Sox pitcher this year.

[mvp 78]

I don't know about starting, but Buchholz is looking better and better in relief and is probably right now our best choice for long relief. FWIW, Price has pitched more innings than any other Sox pitcher this year.

 

Price has been Wade Miley this year.

 

I'm fine with Clay's current position.

[moonslav59]

Clay has a long way to go to win a SP'er slot barring injury or implosion.

 

No, 6 man rotation. We need Porcello and Wright every other day, but have to settle on every 5 days. 6 days would mean they miss a start or two by season end.

 

Nope and double NOPE!

[Spudboy]

Clay has a long way to go to win a SP'er slot barring injury or implosion.

 

No, 6 man rotation. We need Porcello and Wright every other day, but have to settle on every 5 days. 6 days would mean they miss a start or two by season end.

 

Nope and double NOPE!

 

I don't know where I suggested a 6 man rotation.

 

I merely suggested that at some point during the remainder of this season Buch will make another start.

 

Everyone here is so quick to point out anything that smells of suck and failure yet when a player who had not been performing well "quietly" starts playing like he used to he can be ignored.

 

I've watched all of Buch's relief appearances looking for any indicator of where his stuff is at.

 

For at least his last 4 appearances he has had his quality stuff.

 

No one talks about it.

 

One injury or a stretch of suck ( as in Pom Pom ) to a starter and boom, Clay starts.

[moonslav59]

I don't know where I suggested a 6 man rotation.

 

I merely suggested that at some point during the remainder of this season Buch will make another start.

 

Everyone here is so quick to point out anything that smells of suck and failure yet when a player who had not been performing well "quietly" starts playing like he used to he can be ignored.

 

I've watched all of Buch's relief appearances looking for any indicator of where his stuff is at.

 

For at least his last 4 appearances he has had his quality stuff.

 

No one talks about it.

 

One injury or a stretch of suck ( as in Pom Pom ) to a starter and boom, Clay starts.

 

I was responding to the original post, not yours.

 

I was one of the few posters here defending Buch and advising against DFA'ing him.

 

I realize he has never had a great half season after starting the same season horribly, but he has been so up and down over his career, I wanted to leave the door open for the possibility of an "Up" streak.

 

Since his "Up streaks" have been among the best in MLB over the last 45 years, I felt he was worth holding onto. (That was also why I thought taking the option was a "no-brainer" even if just to trade him for a good A-level prospect.)

 

I do not think he's shown he's ready to start now, but if Pomeranz keeps walking 6 guys in 6 innings, he may not be as far away as I implied.

 

I think ERod is on the right path, so I don't see who else Buch could squeeze out.

 

Besides, we need a long man, so his role there may be equally as valuable.

[bosoxmal]

I have no doubt that he will be starting again and soon. So who sits? Not Wright, not Porcello. After that it's a toss up. Even Price is not in any way dependable. A six man rotation has been discussed ever since somebody invented the slider.

[SoxnCycles]

I have no doubt that he will be starting again and soon. So who sits? Not Wright, not Porcello. After that it's a toss up. Even Price is not in any way dependable. A six man rotation has been discussed ever since somebody invented the slider.

 

It's not about which starter has to sit.

Clay will start again if there's an injury or some one needs to skip a start, due to the sucky schedule (I'm thinking Pomeranz).

Otherwise, he's the long guy.

 

With the exception of E-Rod, this team has been healthy, starting pitcher-wise.

If their luck runs out, you'll see Clay start.

I don't see why they'd bother with a 6 man rotation.

[Kimmi]

The thing is that Clay has looked pretty solid for a while now. Maybe Good Buch is available finally?

 

I have a feeling that he will start again and contribute. Just my opinion, of course.

 

Clay has looked pretty good working in relief. I've been a big Clay supporter, but I'm not sure I'm ready to trust him as a starter yet.

 

At any rate, he likely won't get another start unless there's an injury.

[bowman]

I wouldn't be surprised if we fall too far back, Price will go on the DL and news of how he was pitching with some kind of discomfort or other issue will follow. He for sure is not in his zone out there. He knows the kind of money he's making and knows he is stinking it up. He shows very little emotion, I really am starting to wonder what his problem is. Some players get that huge contract and lose the edge. From the looks of it I don't think this will end good. I hope I am dead wrong and something clicks soon....

[moonslav59]

I wouldn't be surprised if we fall too far back, Price will go on the DL and news of how he was pitching with some kind of discomfort or other issue will follow. He for sure is not in his zone out there. He knows the kind of money he's making and knows he is stinking it up. He shows very little emotion, I really am starting to wonder what his problem is. Some players get that huge contract and lose the edge. From the looks of it I don't think this will end good. I hope I am dead wrong and something clicks soon....

 

You could be right, but I tend to think if something was seriously wrong, we'd see it in his K rate or BB rate. His K/i9 is the same as 2015 (9.2.

His 2.1 BB/9 is his highest since 2012, but his 2.1 mark is lower than his career 2.3 mark.

 

His K/W ratio (4.4) is the lowest since 2011 (3.5), so maybe something is there. To me, he seems to be trying to hard for K's instead of letting hitters hit him weakly for outs. I'm not expert on struggling pitcher diagnosis, so who knows.

 

)

[oldtimer]

I wouldn't be surprised if we fall too far back, Price will go on the DL and news of how he was pitching with some kind of discomfort or other issue will follow. He for sure is not in his zone out there. He knows the kind of money he's making and knows he is stinking it up. He shows very little emotion, I really am starting to wonder what his problem is. Some players get that huge contract and lose the edge. From the looks of it I don't think this will end good. I hope I am dead wrong and something clicks soon....

 

He did put two good starts together just before his last which was not good. In one of his good starts, JF should have done a better job and it could have been a win, in the other good start, the offense was non-existent. Can't fault Price for all of the losses. He has to doubt himself at this point and maybe he is trying too hard to be on the corners with all his pitches and just missing, which is pushing his walk total higher. He still is a viable starter, although not an ace.

[SoxnCycles]

He did put two good starts together just before his last which was not good. In one of his good starts, JF should have done a better job and it could have been a win, in the other good start, the offense was non-existent. Can't fault Price for all of the losses. He has to doubt himself at this point and maybe he is trying too hard to be on the corners with all his pitches and just missing, which is pushing his walk total higher. He still is a viable starter, although not an ace.

 

The problem is the league is full of viable starters and the Sox have their share.

They don't need another one, they need an ace and they don't have one.

[a700hitter]

The problem is the league is full of viable starters and the Sox have their share.

They don't need another one, they need an ace and they don't have one.

We had no reliable 4 or 5 until ERod returned to form and Pomeranz was acquired.

[mvp 78]

We had no reliable 4 or 5 until ERod returned to form and Pomeranz was acquired.

 

Our viable 5th starter was Wright.

 

The problem is that we went into the season with an injured guy in the 2 spot and Buchholz in the 4.

 

No matter what Wright does down the stretch, the team would be below .500 if he didn't have his surprising season.

[a700hitter]

Our viable 5th starter was Wright.

 

The problem is that we went into the season with an injured guy in the 2 spot and Buchholz in the 4.

 

No matter what Wright does down the stretch, the team would be below .500 if he didn't have his surprising season.

And also, Porcello has not bounced back to have a much better season than his career norms.

[mvp 78]

And also, Porcello has not bounced back to have a much better season than his career norms.

 

He's pitching like the guy he was in 2014. I'm happy with it.

[a700hitter]

He's pitching like the guy he was in 2014. I'm happy with it.

He is pitching even better than 2014. K ratio is up. hits and WHIP are down.

[sk7326]

Wanna guess when our two pitching coaches decide to go to a 6-man rotation? Including Buchholz? Seems inevitable to me. Especially if Toronto's works for them. It's only a question "when" that Buchholz gets a start.

 

Never - right now the rotation is ... well, there are not better options than these 5. They just gotta do it.

[Maxbialystock]

Not a very credible OP--sorry, bosoxmal--but a good discussion. I agree with the "no ace" judgment, but also think our rotation right now is the best it's been since the first half of 2014.

 

Despite having watched many, many games on TV, I don't consider myself an expert on pitching. Nevertheless, it seem to this uneducated eye that other teams have starters with good breaking stuff and we do not. Price clearly relies too much on his fast ball and does not have a changeup he can rely on. The same applies to ERod. Wright's success is predicated chiefly on the fact that he has a great breaking ball and on good nights uses his fastball sparingly. I think Porcello mixes his pitches well and haven't watched Pomeranz enough to give an opinion. When Buchholz is good, he throws a lot of different pitches--fast ball, cut fast ball, changeup, curve, and I think a slider--and he puts them in the right spots. Price and ERod both have changeups, but can't reliably put them in the right spots. Kimbrel has a great fastball, but I think he would be hittable if he didn't also have that knuckle curve (or whatever you call it).

 

And this. How many of you remember that time several years ago, before 2013, when Nava, maybe a rookie, faced Verlander with men on base and got a single off a 100 mph fastball, which of course he hit to the opposite (left) field? I am convinced Nava would have had no chance except that he was sure that pitch was going to be a fastball--I think it was a 3-2 count. That's what I think happens to our starters too often--they rely on the fast ball and become predictable. Wright is predictable too. In fact, very predictable. But that darn knuckler is still hard to hit when it is really working. But when it isn't, when it's missing and the batter can bet on the fast ball, then Wright becomes very hittable.

 

I watched Sandy Koufax pitch, once, in Philly. Great fastball, but also a great curve that dropped off the table. And he had, finally, great control.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Maxbialystock

[mvp 78]

Price has a great changeup. It's his fastball that has diminished returns this year and due to location not velocity. http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3184&position=P#pitchvalues

[illinoisredsox]

"Hitting is timing. Pitching is upsetting timing" - Warren Spahn

 

How many times do you see the same pitch trying to hit the same spot at the same speed from our pitchers? Major league hitters will catch up to it eventually even if it's Chapman throwing 103.

 

Nowadays, there is nothing special about a low 90s fastball. 15-20 years ago there was.

 

I don't know how many people were railing at the fact the the hitters couldn't pummel the "soft tossers" on the recent road trip. If you watched them carefully, it was up, down , in, out, different speeds. In other words, just the way Spahn described it.

Edited August 9, 2016 by illinoisredsox

[Bellhorn04]

"Hitting is timing. Pitching is upsetting timing" - Warren Spahn

 

How many times do you see the same pitch trying to hit the same spot at the same speed from our pitchers? Major league hitters will catch up to it eventually even if it's Chapman throwing 103.

 

Nowadays, there is nothing special about a low 90s fastball. 15-20 years ago there was.

 

I don't know how many people were railing at the fact the the hitters couldn't pummel the "soft tossers" on the recent road trip. If you watched them carefully, it was up, down , in out, different speeds. In other words, just the way Spahn described it.

 

Bumgarner is an interesting guy to watch. He doesn't look like that much at first, but he is moving the ball all over the place with great command/control...a guy who really knows what he's doing.