PED Discussion

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

Right. And I have no problem with that. IMO he's now exonerated himself and deserves the same credit as anyone else who's gone 13 years without a positive test.

 

But are you upset with management for continually signing him even though he was a PED abuser?

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

[quote=moonslav59;10

 

Clemens lied, cheated and ruined other people's lives to try to convince the public he wasn't a cheater.

 

Who's life did he ruin?

 

He's also had other transgressions beyond PED use that I believe money silenced, but I'll just leave it at that.

 

Pure speculation

 

[/b]

 

It's ok if our guy does it but not okay if the other guys do it. Got it.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

Nobody, even Papi, knows what he tested positive for, except the lab and the few people who have the results and are not telling anyone anything.

 

Username is right, he tested positive for some kind of PED, but we may never know what it was.

 

We can choose to believe Papi was not a longtime user of PEDs up to 2003 or not. That would be all speculation, but Papi has done very well after 2003, while some others who come off steroids flop pretty quickly.

 

Papi used something. He admitted it. He never said what it was though.

 

Clemens lied, cheated and ruined other people's lives to try to convince the public he wasn't a cheater. He's also had other transgressions beyond PED use that I believe money silenced, but I'll just leave it at that.

 

Clemens lives in my hometown. Even his hometown knows him for what he is: evil.

 

Who's life did he ruin?

 

And the $ payoff stuff is pure speculation.

[jacksonianmarch]

I need some proof that the testing was steroid-specific. As far as I've read, it was PED testing. Sources please.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2014/03/28/a-timeline-of-mlbs-drug-testing-rules/7024351/

 

It's the best I can get, but many sites including http://baseballssteroidera.com/2003-steroid-list-anonymous-survey-testing.htm use PED's rather than steroids. A ton of PED's were not on the list, including the most frequently used one, HGH. Amphetamines were not tested for. Drugs of abuse were not tested for. Most supplements weren't on the list, including Ephedra.

[User Name]

Of the 104 positive tests in 2003, at most 96 would have been considered positive by Major League Baseball at the time. According to ESPN, at least eight positive tests were for substances that were not banned by MLB in 2003.

For instance, the lab could have indicated a positive test for something like HCG (banned in 2008) or Androstenedione (banned in 2005) but MLB would have ignored it for the purposes of determining whether or not 5% of players had failed a test.

 

 

Ortiz wasn't notified what he tested positive for. So using common sense, isn't it likely he was part of the above group? As I said before, Manny was notified what he tested for. He knew.

[moonslav59]

Who's life did he ruin?

 

And the $ payoff stuff is pure speculation.

 

Well, maybe "ruin" is a bit too strong a word, but Clemens actually went after McNamee with a law suit after the hearing!

 

I'm sure Brian's life was all peachy creamy all those days.

 

The money payoff is pure speculation, and I said "I believed" and did not state as fact, but it wasn't about McNamee.

 

I'll spell it out as best I remember:

 

Mindy McCready has never denied she had an affair with Clemens beginning at age 15. I do remember reports that Clemens gave McCready thousands of dollars, but I'm not sure if that was ever confirmed. She reportedly met him at a bar at age 15 and went back to his hotel room, but she denied she had sex with Clemens until age 18. What a wonderful man this Roger Clemens is! The affair supposedly lasted 10 year.

 

McCready later had drug issues and committed suicide years later. I guess Roger had a positive influence on her life.

[Bellhorn04]

But are you upset with management for continually signing him even though he was a PED abuser?

 

You noticed that S5Dewey's sig line says 'suspended' in it, right?

[Kimmi]

I'm of the belief that PED transgressions are not all created equal and it's reasonable to regard some as worse than others.

 

Bingo

[jacksonianmarch]

Ortiz wasn't notified what he tested positive for. So using common sense, isn't it likely he was part of the above group? As I said before, Manny was notified what he tested for. He knew.

 

Ortiz says he wasn't notified what he tested positive for. He also said that he was first told about his failed test in 2009. Whereas all players who failed a test were made aware in 2004 and were told what they took. And what's the chance he was one of the 8? Probably about 7.69%

[User Name]

Ortiz says he wasn't notified what he tested positive for. He also said that he was first told about his failed test in 2009. Whereas all players who failed a test were made aware in 2004 and were told what they took. And what's the chance he was one of the 8? Probably about 7.69%

 

Better than 0%, like Manny et al.

[Emp9]

Regarding the '2003 List', I really don't put that much stock into it. It's not the end all-be all that I thought it once was. 1) We don't know what exactly they tested for. 2) We don't know if they took into consideration any of the various Meds one might take at the time. 3) As far as I know, they did NOT test for false-positives. 4) We don't know if the clean players tried to fudge the results to get more testing, as was rumored. 5) What they did test for weren't actually banned at the time of testing. It was a litmus test.

 

I did and still do somewhat appreciate the 2003 List because it beat the grass to startle the snakes, so to speak. However, I still need more information, and the best way for more information is for a player, any player, to test positive post-2003, and/or have a suspect paper trail, or phone records, or electronic documents,or direct witness testimony (players, family, coaches, trainer, etc), some or all the above.

 

This isn't the NFL. It is my belief MLB has put forth meaningful testing since first adopted. It may have not put a total end to all of it, but it certainly has landed a serious blow to the PED culture. It's a cat & mouse game now of smarter testing vs smarter drugs, but it's the best it's ever been and that's including every baseball generation before it. Hands down.

 

As far as fan bias goes... I can only point to Manny Ramirez as going from one of my favorite players of all time to one of my favorite PED users of all time. It had very little to do with the partial 2003 List leak. It had everything to do with what eventually happened years later.

 

I may well be more forgiving than most. Suspicions are duly noted, but for me, suspicions need to be confirmed. The 2003 List just doesn't automatically confirm it for me. Sorry.