2016 MLB Draft Thread.

[Hugh2]

Jon Heyman @jonheyman

sources: red sox, groome talks are intensifying. not done yet.

[Spudboy]

f*** this 17 year old punk. I say stand pat and if he does not sign then let him go off to Podunk Junior College.

 

Whoever is advising this twit should be fired. His value is not likely to be better next year. Even if he has a lights out season in juco ball he may not see the same money again. Taking that risk is just dumb.

 

Take the cash you twat. Or go s*** in your hat.

[a700hitter]

f*** this 17 year old punk. I say stand pat and if he does not sign then let him go off to Podunk Junior College.

 

Whoever is advising this twit should be fired. His value is not likely to be better next year. Even if he has a lights out season in juco ball he may not see the same money again. Taking that risk is just dumb.

 

Take the cash you twat. Or go s*** in your hat.

And if the twits in the FO to your suggested negotiation approach with this twat, I have no doubt they he would already be signed. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe DD has some balls. The last 2 GMs wold lose a negotiation with themselves.

[Jack Flap]

Why is he a punk, twat, etc.? Lol...let's wait until the deadline passes with no deal before freaking out. Until then, it is just negotiation.

 

I agree that it would be unwise for him not to sign for several reasons, but at the same time, this might be the only big payout he ever gets from baseball, and there's nothing wrong with him making sure he gets the best deal that he possibly can. By the end of Friday, he will be a Red Sox (in my expert opinion, of course ).

Edited July 13, 2016 by Jack Flap

[Hugh2]

I don't know why everyone is freaking out, we were told this would happen.

 

The kid was told he could go #1 for almost a year leading up until the draft, he had a price tag and the Sox have a budget. He fell far enough that his price tag was impossible to meet, the Sox new that, his agent knows that and everyone said the negotiations would go right up until the deadline. This is not unnatural.

 

I have no ideal what the conversation is but it's probably something like this. Groome and his agent are asking for 4.5 million, the Sox have offered 3.5, they are both posturing and will eventually settle somewhere around 4 million. I was earlier optimistic that the real number could be as low as 3.75-3.8 but admittedly I'm optimistic that number could easily be 4 million to 4.2 million. But both sides likely have the capacity to budge. You don't go to a negotiation table with your best offer.

 

Often guys are drafted with an agreement of what it will take to sign them, when a guy like Groome falls things change because the Sox probably weren't in contact with his agent due to the fact that no one knew he would drop that far. That doesn't mean they didn't have preliminary talks on draft day with ballpark figures and an understanding that they thought a deal could get done. I have a hard to time believing they would draft him if they didn't think they had a good shot at signing him.

 

Relax, to reiterate my points, this is a negotiation and it was said in the very beginning by everyone in the know that it would go right down to the wire. I'm 95% sure he signs by the end of this week.

[Bellhorn04]

And if the twits in the FO to your suggested negotiation approach with this twat, I have no doubt they he would already be signed. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe DD has some balls. The last 2 GMs wold lose a negotiation with themselves.

 

OK I'll bite.

 

Other than Carl Crawford, Epstein's record in negotiations was fine.

[Hugh2]

It will be very exciting to see a system that has Groome, Espinoza, and Kopech in it. I understand the Sox have a poor track records with pitchers in recent years but to be fair it's been over a decade since they had a trio that talented.

[mvp 78]

Relax, to reiterate my points, this is a negotiation and it was said in the very beginning by everyone in the know that it would go right down to the wire. I'm 95% sure he signs by the end of this week.

 

Basically, this. It's just a negotiation guys and gal. There's no reason to get all that sand in your underpants.

[Jack Flap]

Thanks for explaining it all much better than I could, Hugh. Not sure why some people seem to be taking this so far pretty unremarkable process personally.

[a700hitter]

OK I'll bite.

 

Other than Carl Crawford, Epstein's record in negotiations was fine.

The overpays for Dice k and Lugo were extreme.

[Hugh2]

The overpays for Dice k and Lugo were extreme.

 

The overpay for Dice-K supposedly had a lot to do with developing a market and building a reputation, although that doesn't seem to have paid any dividends but what did Lugo get??? 3 years 26 million for a guy who was average to better for an offensive SS with above average defense? While not the deal of the century that wasn't exactly a gross overpay either.

[mvp 78]

The overpays for Dice k and Lugo were extreme.

 

DiceK only took money and he helped to win a WS. It was a good signing.

[Kimmi]

Thanks for explaining it all much better than I could, Hugh. Not sure why some people seem to be taking this so far pretty unremarkable process personally.

 

Agreed, Hugh did a good job of explaining it.

 

I can understand where Spud is coming from though. He may be a little harsh and he may be jumping the gun a bit, as it seems like the deal will get done. But if it doesn't, I would have the sense of this kid being a little too full of himself. He's 17, he's being offered $3.5 mil, and that's not good enough? I would be disheartened.

[Kimmi]

And if the twits in the FO to your suggested negotiation approach with this twat, I have no doubt they he would already be signed. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe DD has some balls. The last 2 GMs wold lose a negotiation with themselves.

 

The last two GMs, while not without fault, were awesome. It's a shame that you can't give them any credit.

[Bellhorn04]

The last two GMs, while not without fault, were awesome. It's a shame that you can't give them any credit.

 

I don't think they should be bundled together, it makes our debates even messier than they already are - if that's possible.

[a700hitter]

The last two GMs, while not without fault, were awesome. It's a shame that you can't give them any credit.

Don't take it so personally. I have little regard for any of the overpaid FO knuckleheads in MLB. Anyone with some business savy can eat their lunch.

[a700hitter]

I don't think they should be bundled together, it makes our debates even messier than they already are - if that's possible.

I bundle them all together. They are all overpaid knuckleheads. It is just a matter of degree.

[Jack Flap]

Agreed, Hugh did a good job of explaining it.

 

I can understand where Spud is coming from though. He may be a little harsh and he may be jumping the gun a bit, as it seems like the deal will get done. But if it doesn't, I would have the sense of this kid being a little too full of himself. He's 17, he's being offered $3.5 mil, and that's not good enough? I would be disheartened.

 

 

Well, I certainly know what I'd do, but unfortunately I've never been in the position of having to decide whether or not to take $3.5 million.

 

My guess is the Red Sox have room to do a bit better, Groome and his camp know this, and after some further haggling they will come to a deal.

[a700hitter]

The overpay for Dice-K supposedly had a lot to do with developing a market and building a reputation, although that doesn't seem to have paid any dividends but what did Lugo get??? 3 years 26 million for a guy who was average to better for an offensive SS with above average defense? While not the deal of the century that wasn't exactly a gross overpay either.

Lucchino admitted that there were no income stream from Japan created as a result of signing Dice K. Also, just form a negotiation standpoint and gauging the market, they overshot the closest bid by $16 or 18 million with their bid of $52 million.

[a700hitter]

DiceK only took money and he helped to win a WS. It was a good signing.

I am and was glad that we got him. We are discussing the negotiating acumen of our FO who I claimed would lose a negotiation if they negotiated with themselves.

[a700hitter]

The overpay for Dice-K supposedly had a lot to do with developing a market and building a reputation, although that doesn't seem to have paid any dividends but what did Lugo get??? 3 years 26 million for a guy who was average to better for an offensive SS with above average defense? While not the deal of the century that wasn't exactly a gross overpay either.

Do you really want to give the FO a feather for the Lugo contract?

[Spudboy]

Agreed, Hugh did a good job of explaining it.

 

I can understand where Spud is coming from though. He may be a little harsh and he may be jumping the gun a bit, as it seems like the deal will get done. But if it doesn't, I would have the sense of this kid being a little too full of himself. He's 17, he's being offered $3.5 mil, and that's not good enough? I would be disheartened.

 

This is how I see it. Yes, I think 3.5-4.2 mil is stupid money for someone who is 17 and never faced high end baseball talent.

 

I don't have any sand in my panties. I just don't like the way money is thrown around for unproven talent. The guy is not Spencer Haywood or Kevin Garnet.

 

I'm not jumping the gun , either. I said stand pat as in "that's what we got for you kid. Take it or leave it."

Edited July 13, 2016 by Spudboy

[a700hitter]

This is how I see it. Yes, I think 3.5-4.2 mil is stupid money for someone who is 17 and never faced high end baseball talent.

 

I don't have any sand in my panties. I just don't like the way money is thrown around for unproven talent. The guy is not Spencer Haywood or Kevin Garnet.

I agree. I really don't care whether he signs or not, because he will not be coming to Fenway for 5 years under the best of circumstances. I will shake my head that the momos in the FO wasted a high first round pick if they don't get it done. Maybe they can retain one of those Dominican Agents who has a bag of untraceable cash to help them get it done.

[User Name]

I agree. I really don't care whether he signs or not, because he will not be coming to Fenway for 5 years under the best of circumstances. I will shake my head that the momos in the FO wasted a high first round pick if they don't get it done. Maybe they can retain one of those Dominican Agents who has a bag of untraceable cash to help them get it done.

 

Ah, money laundering. The true Dominican pastime.

[a700hitter]

Ah, money laundering. The true Dominican pastime.

Money laundering -- maybe the world' s second oldest profession.

[mvp 78]

https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/753245355525955585

 

@alexspeier Source: Red Sox deal w/1st-rounder Jason Groome 'getting closer,' 'should get done,' though final bonus figure still being discussed.

[Bellhorn04]

Don't take it so personally. I have little regard for any of the overpaid FO knuckleheads in MLB. Anyone with some business savy can eat their lunch.

 

Well, they should be doing it then.

[mvp 78]

My only concern is: Another dynamic in play, according to Speier, is that Groome hasn’t yet taken a physical in advance of Friday’s deadline. All things considered, though, the Red Sox will surely be highly motivated to sign him — a big lefty with good velocity and and a terrific curve would be a strong addition to any farm system.

[Hugh2]

Do you really want to give the FO a feather for the Lugo contract?

 

No, but I wouldn't call it an "extreme overpay" either. Your points on Dice-K however seem more fair.

[Hugh2]

‏@alexspeier

Source: Red Sox deal w/1st-rounder Jason Groome 'getting closer,' 'should get done,' though final bonus figure still being discussed.