How Bad Are the Umps?

[Bellhorn04]

Have you heard Joes spoken word country cd? Put it this way...its a good thing hes not as bad at umpiring as he is as a "musician".

 

I'll definitely take a pass on that. And if he started doing it when I was buying him drinks, I'd buy him a bottle and leave.

[User Name]

The ironic thing about the much-maligned Joe West is that, from a Sox perspective, he turned in one of the greatest single-game umpiring jobs in history-or at least he was head of the crew that did. If I ever met the man I'd buy him drinks all night.

 

That does not make him not suck.

[Emp9]

Funny that someone who likes to post "contrarian opinions" has a problem when another poster has a contrarian opinion in their sig.

 

But the Sox literally CAN'T trade Pedroia, him having a full No-Trade clause and all.

[User Name]

So no team has ever convinced a player to waive his no-trade?

[Emp9]

So no team has ever convinced a player to waive his no-trade?

 

I never said that. So tell me, how likely is it that Pedroia green-lights a trade? A tag line that says "Trade Pedroia" like it's as simple as that is so very daft.

[User Name]

I never said that. So tell me, how likely is it that Pedroia green-lights a trade? A tag line that says "Trade Pedroia" like it's as simple as that is so very daft.

 

I'm not advocating for trading him. I'm saying that if the Sox needed/wanted to trade him there are avenues to do it.

[Emp9]

I'm not advocating for trading him. I'm saying that if the Sox needed/wanted to trade him there are avenues to do it.

 

Avenues? ... Plural?? No. Avenue. One way. Pedroia would have to sign off on it. That's the only avenue. So, taking reality into consideration, how likely is that going to happen? ... Is what I'm asking.

[Slasher9]

Avenues? ... Plural?? No. Avenue. One way. Pedroia would have to sign off on it. That's the only avenue. So, taking reality into consideration, how likely is that going to happen? ... Is what I'm asking.

 

never, ever going to happen. and why is this even being discussed? anyone that advocates trading Pedroia hasn't a clue.

[User Name]

Avenues? ... Plural?? No. Avenue. One way. Pedroia would have to sign off on it. That's the only avenue. So, taking reality into consideration, how likely is that going to happen? ... Is what I'm asking.

 

Pedroia does not have a full NTC and doesn't yet have 10-5 rights. So avenues.

[mvp 78]

But the Sox literally CAN'T trade Pedroia, him having a full No-Trade clause and all.

 

Ok? Does that mean I can't express opinion?

 

Pedroia could wave his no trade clause if he wanted to. Maybe he'd prefer living closer to where he grew up?

[mvp 78]

never, ever going to happen. and why is this even being discussed? anyone that advocates trading Pedroia hasn't a clue.

 

I guess you've never had a dissenting opinion that no one else agrees with?

[mvp 78]

Avenues? ... Plural?? No. Avenue. One way. Pedroia would have to sign off on it. That's the only avenue. So, taking reality into consideration, how likely is that going to happen? ... Is what I'm asking.

 

99.9% not likely. It's not going to happen.

[Spudboy]

I never said that. So tell me, how likely is it that Pedroia green-lights a trade? A tag line that says "Trade Pedroia" like it's as simple as that is so very daft.

 

 

never, ever going to happen. and why is this even being discussed? anyone that advocates trading Pedroia hasn't a clue.

 

 

There is no reason to say these things. You may not agree with what MVP says and that's fine. State your opinion on way or another.

 

However, I suggest that you become more familiar with MVP before you start making snide remarks about his comments.

 

MVP is one of the brightest people I have encountered while playing on the Internet. Sometimes he makes sarcastic remarks that others don't see the sarcasm in. Sometime he makes a remark like "trade Pedroia". Sometime it's not possible to distinguish between the two.

 

Lighten up. It's only baseball. And this is just a message board.

 

As far as Pedroia being traded is concerned, I very much doubt that it would happen as He is somewhat of an institution in this market and almost always a bargain. He may suffer an unsightly demise as his contract matures but I think everyone will accept it because of who he has been and of course his likability.

 

As has been pointed out Pedroia has not earned no trade status yet. Additionally, anyone can be traded unless they put up a big fuss with their no trade status. If Pedroia were to be put in that position my guess is that he would okay the deal as he does not seem to be the type of person that would want to hang around where he is not wanted.

[SoxnCycles]

There is no reason to say these things. You may not agree with what MVP says and that's fine. State your opinion on way or another.

However, I suggest that you become more familiar with MVP before you start making snide remarks about his comments.

 

MVP is one of the brightest people I have encountered while playing on the Internet. Sometimes he makes sarcastic remarks that others don't see the sarcasm in. Sometime he makes a remark like "trade Pedroia". Sometime it's not possible to distinguish between the two.

 

Lighten up. It's only baseball. And this is just a message board.

 

As far as Pedroia being traded is concerned, I very much doubt that it would happen as He is somewhat of an institution in this market and almost always a bargain. He may suffer an unsightly demise as his contract matures but I think everyone will accept it because of who he has been and of course his likability.

 

As has been pointed out Pedroia has not earned no trade status yet. Additionally, anyone can be traded unless they put up a big fuss with their no trade status. If Pedroia were to be put in that position my guess is that he would okay the deal as he does not seem to be the type of person that would want to hang around where he is not wanted.

 

Yeah, because THAT has never happened around here before...

Jesus.

[Emp9]

Pedroia does not have a full NTC and doesn't yet have 10-5 rights. So avenues.

 

MLBTR says a full NTC.

OvertheMonster says a full NTC

TheOutsideCorner says full NTC

Fansided.com says full NTC

Rob Bradford from WEEI says full NTC

[sk7326]

But the Sox literally CAN'T trade Pedroia, him having a full No-Trade clause and all.

 

The full no-trade means Pedroia is in charge and that if the Red Sox want to deal him, it will cost them. Guys have waived NTCs before. I would have a hard time doing it because he is still an elite (or damn near) infielder on an astonishingly cheap deal.

[User Name]

Cot's says "limited" no trade protection. He doesn't earn full no-trade until he hits 10-5 rights at the end of this year is what I've read.

 

https://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/al-east/boston-red-sox/

[Slasher9]

I guess you've never had a dissenting opinion that no one else agrees with?

 

fair enough.

 

which #2 type starter are you looking to trade him for?

you would prefer brock holt to play 2b for the remainder of this season?

[sk7326]

IMO, having an automated strike zone would not necessarily change the game for the better. One of the things that is so wonderful about the sport is its randomness. Umpires add to that randomness, and the imperfection of humans calling balls and strikes adds some interesting wrinkles to the game.

 

Also, umpires have gotten a lot better in calling balls and strikes since pitch/fx was installed in all the ballparks about 10 years ago. They are continuing to improve as the technology allows them to see and understand exactly what types of mistakes are being made. It is likely that the large majority of "missed" calls really aren't bad calls, but rather they are borderline calls that could realistically go either way.

 

FTR, automated strike zones will not be perfect either.

 

Personally, I am against the idea, as I am against instant replay in general.

 

Here is the thing - the strike zone is defined clearly. This is not a basketball foul - where some contact is allowable - it is a three dimensional box that the ball has to touch on its path. It's not umpire's choice. Now the umpires can't do this job well ... with all of the improvement, we are at a 14% error rate which would be scandalous for almost any other process. (and no call in sports gets made more frequently each game). Automating called balls and strikes does not eliminate the umpire, nor does it eliminate his job at judging swinging strikes. It helps him with the hardest part of his job. It is one thing for the sport to decide that the umps judgment cannot be argued with - but it is less okay to do that and then prevent the umpire from doing the job more accurately.

 

I like the sport's randomness - the homerun in Camden that is a single at Fenway- the way an 83-79 team can win a World Series on 3 good weeks of baseball. Random application of rules and random stipulations based on specific umpires is professional wrestling. (which I love too, but I keep separate from my baseball)

[S5Dewey]

The thing I don't understand is that while I'm hearing that the umpires are critiqued frequently they don't seem to be getting any better! That tells me that regardless of what they're being told they're not going to change. A business person would say that this is no longer a training issue, it's a personnel issue. When MLB gets serious about improving the umpiring they'll be somehow penalizing the worst of the umpires.

 

My suggestion (FWIW) would be public ridicule to start with. Develop a rating system and publish a weekly report of where each umpire falls on the rating chart. If these guys have any pride in their work they'll improve. If they don't improve they get moved to Step II, some kind of a penalty.

[SoxnCycles]

The thing I don't understand is that while I'm hearing that the umpires are critiqued frequently they don't seem to be getting any better! That tells me that regardless of what they're being told they're not going to change. A business person would say that this is no longer a training issue, it's a personnel issue. When MLB gets serious about improving the umpiring they'll be somehow penalizing the worst of the umpires.

 

My suggestion (FWIW) would be public ridicule to start with. Develop a rating system and publish a weekly report of where each umpire falls on the rating chart. If these guys have any pride in their work they'll improve. If they don't improve they get moved to Step II, some kind of a penalty.

 

Yup, some transparency in the process would help.

But, I'm betting the Ump union would fight it, tooth and nail.

[illinoisredsox]

Yup, some transparency in the process would help.

But, I'm betting the Ump union would fight it, tooth and nail.

 

Ya think? Joe West is the union President. Nuff said.

[Emp9]

Cot's says "limited" no trade protection. He doesn't earn full no-trade until he hits 10-5 rights at the end of this year is what I've read.

 

https://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/al-east/boston-red-sox/

 

If a full NTC is negotiated into the contract it may overrule the 10/5 rights he would eventually earn.

 

Beyond the box score Ken Woolums:

 

"While the no-trade clause appears to be a big deal, Pedroia would have recieved 10/5 no-trade rights shortly after the deal began, so it is a pretty meaningless addition to the deal as it only covers a couple years."

 

Besides Bradford, this is another source that says a full NTC was indeed included in the deal and it supersedes the 10/5 rights he would have eventually earned.

[SoxnCycles]

Ya think? Joe West is the union President. Nuff said.

 

Really?

No wonder nothing much is done to lousy umps.

[Slasher9]

The thing I don't understand is that while I'm hearing that the umpires are critiqued frequently they don't seem to be getting any better! That tells me that regardless of what they're being told they're not going to change. A business person would say that this is no longer a training issue, it's a personnel issue. When MLB gets serious about improving the umpiring they'll be somehow penalizing the worst of the umpires.

 

My suggestion (FWIW) would be public ridicule to start with. Develop a rating system and publish a weekly report of where each umpire falls on the rating chart. If these guys have any pride in their work they'll improve. If they don't improve they get moved to Step II, some kind of a penalty.

 

sign me up to this idea. LIKE.

[Bellhorn04]

That does not make him not suck.

 

Nope. But he was a pillar of justice for one night.

[User Name]

If a full NTC is negotiated into the contract it may overrule the 10/5 rights he would eventually earn.

 

Beyond the box score Ken Woolums:

 

"While the no-trade clause appears to be a big deal, Pedroia would have recieved 10/5 no-trade rights shortly after the deal began, so it is a pretty meaningless addition to the deal as it only covers a couple years."

 

Besides Bradford, this is another source that says a full NTC was indeed included in the deal and it supersedes the 10/5 rights he would have eventually earned.

 

I keep reading several websites besides Cot's (including MLBTR, whose reports conflict) saying it's a limited no-trade that's going to get run over by 10-5 rights later in the year.

[Bellhorn04]

The thing I don't understand is that while I'm hearing that the umpires are critiqued frequently they don't seem to be getting any better! That tells me that regardless of what they're being told they're not going to change. A business person would say that this is no longer a training issue, it's a personnel issue. When MLB gets serious about improving the umpiring they'll be somehow penalizing the worst of the umpires.

 

As sk7326 has stated so well on this thread, they can't get better because it's an impossible task to call balls and strikes accurately.

[illinoisredsox]

As sk7326 has stated so well on this thread, they can't get better because it's an impossible task to call balls and strikes accurately.

 

As I said earlier, there are differences in inaccurate calls. Missing on a pitch that's 1/8 of an inch inside or outside the black may be "wrong", but understandable. Missing calls on pitches 4 inches off the plate or down the middle is an entirely different wrong.

[Bellhorn04]

As I said earlier, there are differences in inaccurate calls. Missing on a pitch that's 1/8 of an inch inside or outside the black may be "wrong", but understandable. Missing calls on pitches 4 inches off the plate or down the middle is an entirely different wrong.

 

Agree 100%. You'd have to take that 14-15% error rate and parse it further to see the rate of truly egregious bad calls.