How Bad Are the Umps?

[Spudboy]

Meh. I don't know where I stand on this issue. Is it a national issue? Is there debate in MLB about using the new technology?

 

I'm a traditionalist when it comes to my baseball. But I don't fear change. Certainly not if I have an understanding of that change.

 

I don't have strong feelings one way or another. Yes, I would really like to see consistency and the proper calls made.

 

I guess I would like to see the new system demonstrated and then go from there.

[Maxbialystock]

We already have replay and we already have overturned calls and the game isn't suffering. Balls and strikes is just the next step in the process.

 

The difference is the umpires still make the calls. What you are advocating is that umpires not make the calls on balls and strikes. I think the game does suffer a little with those interruptions, but, as it turns out, they have smoothed out the interactions between managers and umpires and no doubt prevent confrontations, which lead to longer delays of game.

[User Name]

I used this as evidence like 9 pages ago.

 

So? You've been anti-improvement most of the thread. Make up your mind. Fix the strike zone issue or don't fix the strike zone issue.

[Kimmi]

IMO, having an automated strike zone would not necessarily change the game for the better. One of the things that is so wonderful about the sport is its randomness. Umpires add to that randomness, and the imperfection of humans calling balls and strikes adds some interesting wrinkles to the game.

 

Also, umpires have gotten a lot better in calling balls and strikes since pitch/fx was installed in all the ballparks about 10 years ago. They are continuing to improve as the technology allows them to see and understand exactly what types of mistakes are being made. It is likely that the large majority of "missed" calls really aren't bad calls, but rather they are borderline calls that could realistically go either way.

 

FTR, automated strike zones will not be perfect either.

 

Personally, I am against the idea, as I am against instant replay in general.

[mvp 78]

Umps with horrible strike zones don't make the game more enjoyable. It makes it more infuriating.

 

I've seen enough ump shows in my life to know that they have the tendency to absolutely ruin a game.

 

People don't pay money to see umpires air their personal grievances against various players.

[Kimmi]

Umps with horrible strike zones don't make the game more enjoyable. It makes it more infuriating.

 

I've seen enough ump shows in my life to know that they have the tendency to absolutely ruin a game.

 

People don't pay money to see umpires air their personal grievances against various players.

 

I do agree with you on the point of umpires making the game all about them.

 

IMO, umpires need to be held more accountable. If they are not performing up to par and/or regularly letting their egos get in the way of their calls, they need to be replaced.

 

That said, I think the emotion that surfaces during the games in tense situations is part of the beauty of sports. For me, the human element, including with umpires, is huge.

[User Name]

 

Calls like this one sure as hell don't enhance my enjoyment of the game.

[mvp 78]

Will emotions not surface in tense games with an automated strike zone?

[Palodios]

Here's the question:

 

Should the team who plays better win?

 

Yes? Then automate strikezones.

No? Then keep umpire calls.

 

Seems simple to me.

[Bellhorn04]

IMO, having an automated strike zone would not necessarily change the game for the better. One of the things that is so wonderful about the sport is its randomness. Umpires add to that randomness, and the imperfection of humans calling balls and strikes adds some interesting wrinkles to the game.

 

Also, umpires have gotten a lot better in calling balls and strikes since pitch/fx was installed in all the ballparks about 10 years ago. They are continuing to improve as the technology allows them to see and understand exactly what types of mistakes are being made. It is likely that the large majority of "missed" calls really aren't bad calls, but rather they are borderline calls that could realistically go either way.

 

FTR, automated strike zones will not be perfect either.

 

Personally, I am against the idea, as I am against instant replay in general.

 

Such a traditionalist.

[illinoisredsox]

I do agree with you on the point of umpires making the game all about them.

 

The best ones don't. You generally don't know they were umping. and if they blow a call, they man up and admit it (think Jim Joyce after blowing that perfect game a couple years back, Joe West would have never done that and probably would have tossed the manager and pitcher for good measure).

 

IMO, umpires need to be held more accountable. If they are not performing up to par and/or regularly letting their egos get in the way of their calls, they need to be replaced.

 

That said, I think the emotion that surfaces during the games in tense situations is part of the beauty of sports. For me, the human element, including with umpires, is huge.

 

Agreed, but unfortunately, the unon will never let that happen.

[Maxbialystock]

I vehemently disagree that over the course of a 162 game season umpires and their mistakes will prevent good teams from winning, bad teams from losing, good pitchers from getting batters out, and good hitters from getting hits.

 

I would remind the proponents of the pure and undefiled strike zone, enforced by technology to be accurate to the nearest millimeter, that this thread started in part because of the perception that the great Kelly was mistreated by the umps in Toronto. You know, the bad umps. Tonight it appears the Orioles have somehow convinced a new set of umpires that the great Kelly should once again be denied fair calls of balls and strikes. This has resulted in poor Kelly giving up 7 runs in 2.1 innings.

 

I say again as emphatically as I can, it's that TV picture and associated technology that has convinced some of us that the strike zone must somehow be purified when it has had its rough edges for 140 years and those rough edges have not prevented the game of baseball from being a great game to watch. Umpires are far less confrontational than they once were--ditto managers--and that probably saves some time but I'm not so sure it makes for a better game to watch.

 

About those replays and occasional reversals of calls. I'm not against them, but on the other hand it can get very boring watching endless replays of multiple angles to tell us--before the guys in NYC can--whether the calls were right or wrong. This is particularly aggravating when the call was right. Sometimes I'd be just as happy seeing a manager go apeshit when he thinks it was a bad call.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Maxbialystock

[User Name]

Kelly sucks, but that's not the point. The umps are inaccurate, because they are given an impossible task. Said task could be simplified by providing umpires with technology that would allow them to minimize mistakes. In the interest of true fairness for the game of baseball, this is a no-brainer.

[mvp 78]

The game was fine for 100 years without the DH. Ban the DH!

[Maxbialystock]

The game was fine for 100 years without the DH. Ban the DH!

 

Funny you should mention that. The NL did in NL parks. I think the game is pretty good either way--with or without a DH, a position I think was created to get more hitting. Indeed, a very solid case can be made that since the end of the dead ball era and the emergence of Babe Ruth, MLB has consistently favored hitting over pitching on the assumption that hitting and scoring bring fans to the games and/or the boob tube. Thus was the pitching mound lowered when it was clear pitchers had regained their ascendency after Ruth. Thus the DH. Thus the willingness of almost any hitter to indicate displeasure at a strike called and the unwillingness of pitchers to do the same when strikes are not called. .

[SinceYaz]

Here's the question:

 

Should the team who plays better win?

 

Yes? Then automate strikezones.

No? Then keep umpire calls.

 

Seems simple to me.

 

Not bad.

[SinceYaz]

The game was fine for 100 years without the DH. Ban the DH!

 

Actually the issue isn't the DH, it's the U.

 

When on adds the U it becomes DUH. We have always had DUH. At least in the AL it is limited to 2/3s of what the NL has ....

[Maxbialystock]

Umps with horrible strike zones don't make the game more enjoyable. It makes it more infuriating.

 

I've seen enough ump shows in my life to know that they have the tendency to absolutely ruin a game.

 

People don't pay money to see umpires air their personal grievances against various players.

 

Rare is the ump who ruins games intentionally--ditto airing personal grievances against players. Those days are gone.

 

I note too that you still want to fire Farrell and trade Pedroia. Somehow those two assertions make me think I'm the right side of this discussion.

[User Name]

Joe West.

[SinceYaz]

Kelly sucks, but that's not the point. The umps are inaccurate, because they are given an impossible task. Said task could be simplified by providing umpires with technology that would allow them to minimize mistakes. In the interest of true fairness for the game of baseball, this is a no-brainer.

 

Here, here!!!!

[Maxbialystock]

Joe West.

 

Great example because I have definitely seen him make a game all about him. However, this year seems pretty subdued. Maybe last year too. But I honestly think he is the exception, not the rule. Plus his antics should have been quelled years ago if the chif of umpires or whoever at MLB had had any balls.

[SinceYaz]

Great example because I have definitely seen him make a game all about him. However, this year seems pretty subdued. Maybe last year too. But I honestly think he is the exception, not the rule. Plus his antics should have been quelled years ago if the chif of umpires or whoever at MLB had had any balls.

 

Or .... strikes ....

[yankthis]

Or .... strikes ....

 

"If that wasn't a ball, it would have been a strike" ~ Tim McCarver

[SinceYaz]

"If that wasn't a ball, it would have been a strike" ~ Tim McCarver

 

Nice.

[SinceYaz]

Sox pitchers had NINE walks today. Clearly they were not throwing well. Unless they were aiming for the Birds' bats. Shucks. However, as a point ... at least two 3-2 counts went 4-2 instead of 3-3 when clearly the third strike was called ball four. Davis drew a walk that was so clearly a SO that Remdog was almost stuttered into silence by how bad it was.

 

I will admit my bias, that I didn't follow the calls v. the Birds as closely. Part of the time I was helping my beautiful bride with supper prep. I am not sure whether the extra BBs would have made a difference in tonight's 13-9 loss or not. I am thinking that since they made the situation worse by adding a runner to burgeoning bases instead of adding another or first out that it couldn't but have hurt.

 

I am willing to accept the point that this stuff happens to both teams and there is no conspiracy to "get" my team. I am not willing to say it all evens out in the end since the calls, the poor calls, are so arbitrary. A bad call, for instance, when the bases are full carries an almost immediate higher response than a bad call when the bases are empty. If we say it happens to everyone, I can accept that, but that in no fashion means it is equal.

 

I did see several calls today that were low strikes, IMO, but were called balls ... and it happened to both sides. I did NOT count to see if they were equal. But the low calls did seem consistent. OTOH, there were some inside or outside calls that were far from consistent.

 

This leads back to the point that if we had automated calls, I think the outcome today might well have been different. Not the win or loss, but the run production. But as poorly as Kelly, M. Wright, and Buch were pitching, I am not sure it would have mattered a whole lot.

 

I can only hope Kelly got his mulligan out and he comes back to the super near hitter form of the previous start. Buch is shot. Period. His long reliever fill in today was no better than his regular starter cacophony. I rarely, rarely, rarely ever give up on a Sox ....but Clay has forced my hand. He just doesn't have it anymore.

[southpaw777]

Great example because I have definitely seen him make a game all about him. However, this year seems pretty subdued. Maybe last year too. But I honestly think he is the exception, not the rule. Plus his antics should have been quelled years ago if the chif of umpires or whoever at MLB had had any balls.

 

The ump who "stared down" papi when he was ejected ( name?), is known for almost inciting an arguement.

With that said, whoever was the umpire last night seemed to have extended that game quite a bit with his miniscule K zone. There was ZERO given on the black, or close, it seemed for BOTH teams...over the last few games ( well, since Papis ejection) I can honestly say that I havent seen much worse umpiring in years.

Ive also watched a number of other games and can say that the umpiring this year is probably at a low as far as accuracy. Id LOVE to know what each umpires chart reads after a game.and Id also LOVE if the league would enforce a universal K zone for once in the history of the game. Some umpires "personal" K zones are ridiculous. Why should a pitcher have to adjust to the umpire? Kinda backwards, no?

Edited June 2, 2016 by southpaw777

[mvp 78]

Rare is the ump who ruins games intentionally--ditto airing personal grievances against players. Those days are gone.

 

I note too that you still want to fire Farrell and trade Pedroia. Somehow those two assertions make me think I'm the right side of this discussion.

Ok, but you'd be wrong.

[mvp 78]

Funny that someone who likes to post "contrarian opinions" has a problem when another poster has a contrarian opinion in their sig.

[Bellhorn04]

The ironic thing about the much-maligned Joe West is that, from a Sox perspective, he turned in one of the greatest single-game umpiring jobs in history-or at least he was head of the crew that did. If I ever met the man I'd buy him drinks all night.

[southpaw777]

Have you heard Joes spoken word country cd? Put it this way...its a good thing hes not as bad at umpiring as he is as a "musician".