Sox Pitching Staff Discussion

[Jack Flap]

Run support does tend to influence the way we judge a pitcher's performance.

 

Ain't that the truth.

 

(Meanwhile, Price gets castigated by the media for 8-inning, 3-run performances because the offense couldn't score for him.)

[Bellhorn04]

Among others actually.

 

Harmony is cagey though. He points out that 'Buchholz-Miley choice' was never confirmed, only speculated. But then he makes a case for why the M's would have preferred Miley given the choice.

[User Name]

Sure, but if it quacks like a duck, and acts like a duck.

[mvp 78]

Not to be Debbie Downer here, but over his last 3 starts, Wright has allowed 12 ER on 24 H and 6 BB in 15.2 IP, for a 6.89 ERA and a WHIP close to 2. It's only 3 starts, and his first half run has been amazing overall, but if he starts turning back into a pumpkin, our rotation is going to be in even deeper s***.

 

This is not unexpected.

[mvp 78]

Sure, but if it quacks like a duck, and acts like a duck.

 

No no no, in the 2016 Talksox world, it only matters if you have 100% confirmation for an opposing viewpoint. Inferences and reasonable assertions no longer matter. If you're a Buchholz apologist, no amount of s***** pitching will change your worldview because good Buchholz is right around the corner. It was totally reasonable to re-sign Buchholz because there was a great chance that he'd be a #2 in this rotation. No matter how bad he sucks, he is still a valuable commodity because he may one day pitch well over a few starts and if he keeps sucking you can surely flip him to another team as part of a package to bring in a better pitcher.

[SoxnCycles]

No no no, in the 2016 Talksox world, it only matters if you have 100% confirmation for an opposing viewpoint. Inferences and reasonable assertions no longer matter. If you're a Buchholz apologist, no amount of s***** pitching will change your worldview because good Buchholz is right around the corner. It was totally reasonable to re-sign Buchholz because there was a great chance that he'd be a #2 in this rotation. No matter how bad he sucks, he is still a valuable commodity because he may one day pitch well over a few starts and if he keeps sucking you can surely flip him to another team as part of a package to bring in a better pitcher.

 

Jesus, I want buchholz gone just to shut you up.

[Jack Flap]

This is not unexpected.

 

No, it isn't. Expecting him to maintain a low-2 ERA was never realistic...I just hope the pendulum doesn't swing too far back in the other direction.

[mvp 78]

Jesus, I want buchholz gone just to shut you up.

 

Me too. Me too.

[mvp 78]

No, it isn't. Expecting him to maintain a low-2 ERA was never realistic...I just hope the pendulum doesn't swing too far back in the other direction.

 

As long as his ERA going forward is 4 or under, he still has a ton of value. Even an ERA of 4.5 wouldn't be bad since he can eat a ton of innings. Having a 3/4 of Porcello and Wright is fine with me.

[SoxnCycles]

Ain't that the truth.

 

(Meanwhile, Price gets castigated by the media for 8-inning, 3-run performances because the offense couldn't score for him.)

 

That's what you get for reading Tomase.

[Slasher9]

Jesus, I want buchholz gone just to shut you up.

 

lol.

actually i hope we keep buchholz forever so that the whiners can keep on keeping on.....

maybe he can be the pitching coach down the road? i'd really like to see him work with the youngsters on the mental aspect of major league pitching.

btw - he simply needs to grow his hair back so he can have the greasy hair to get a better grip on the ball. that will equate to a 2 ERA. without a doubt.

then we can pickup the 2017 option.

do you think we will pickup Price's 2017 option? oh, wait...nevermind. he's signed for 7 years @ a billion dollars per.....

[Slasher9]

As long as his ERA going forward is 4 or under, he still has a ton of value. Even an ERA of 4.5 wouldn't be bad since he can eat a ton of innings. Having a 3/4 of Porcello and Wright is fine with me.

 

well that would be a lower ERA than our "Ace" so yeah...i guess 4.5 wouldn't be bad?

[User Name]

Pointing out that Buchholz f***ing sucks/gets injured every f***ing year and they should have had a backup plan for the inevitable is not whining. What you are doing about Price three months into his contract is whining. Pot, meet kettle.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

As long as his ERA going forward is 4 or under, he still has a ton of value. Even an ERA of 4.5 wouldn't be bad since he can eat a ton of innings. Having a 3/4 of Porcello and Wright is fine with me.

 

And then who's the #2?

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/49969/david-ortiz-knows-his-chances-of-returning-to-playoffs-hinge-on-red-soxs-pitching

[SoxnCycles]

Pointing out that Buchholz f***ing sucks/gets injured every f***ing year and they should have had a backup plan for the inevitable is not whining. What you are doing about Price three months into his contract is whining. Pot, meet kettle.

 

Making s*** up about what others have said about Buchholz is whining.

You usually have a big problem with people making s*** up.

I guess it depends on who it is.

 

Fans were willing to give Buchholz one more shot this season and he blew it.

No one thinks he's going to get better.

No one wants him back next year.

Most fans with a brain realize Buchholz would've been in the pen in May, if there were a viable alternative.

[illinoisredsox]

Interesting take on a go-forward plan:

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2016/07/06/fix-red-sox-rotation

 

Not sure I buy into it totally, but if you can have the main guys go every 5th day and use it only when a 5th guy is needed, it might have some merit.

[Michfan]

If Buchholz can't win a game before the All-Star break the Sox have a big decision to make. They can't keep rolling him out there.

[User Name]

Making s*** up about what others have said about Buchholz is whining.

You usually have a big problem with people making s*** up.

I guess it depends on who it is.

 

Fans were willing to give Buchholz one more shot this season and he blew it.

No one thinks he's going to get better.

No one wants him back next year.

Most fans with a brain realize Buchholz would've been in the pen in May, if there were a viable alternative.

 

What exactly did I make up? Please enlighten me. Also, can you not make a single point (in a discussion you're not a part of, not less) without coming off like an attack of hemorrhoids on a trip to China?

[User Name]

Also, the point is (and apparently you're really slow if you have not picked it up) that the complaint is exactly about the Red Sox putting themselves into this situation. Most people complaining about Buchholz now were pining for rotation depth in December.

[Slasher9]

Pointing out that Buchholz f***ing sucks/gets injured every f***ing year and they should have had a backup plan for the inevitable is not whining. What you are doing about Price three months into his contract is whining. Pot, meet kettle.

 

show me where i said we shouldnt have signed him (Price)? show me where i said we should have signed him and traded him? that is what makes a whiner.

signing Price was a no brainer. just like picking up Clays option.

i am on record saying i was perfectly fine with the SP plan we had going into this season.

[User Name]

show me where i said we shouldnt have signed him (Price)? show me where i said we should have signed him and traded him? that is what makes a whiner.

signing Price was a no brainer. just like picking up Clays option.

i am on record saying i was perfectly fine with the SP plan we had going into this season.

 

Then why the f*** do you keep whining about him? I don't get it.

 

I just don't understand how Buchholz sucking and Price underperforming have to be lumped together in order to create a defense for Buchholz.

 

In the end, the FO woefully underprepared the pitching staff either way, but it's because of Buchholz, not Price.

[SoxnCycles]

What exactly did I make up? Please enlighten me. Also, can you not make a single point (in a discussion you're not a part of, not less) without coming off like an attack of hemorrhoids on a trip to China?

 

I was referring to MVP's post.

 

Yes, I know you don't like my way of a making point.

I suspect because it's so much like your own.

Tough s***.

[Slasher9]

Fun Stat:

here are the Red Sox ERA's for pitchers that have a GS this season:

 

2.68

3.82

4.64

5.11

5.91

6.61

8.46

8.59

15.88

[Slasher9]

Clay's doesnt look so bad?.....

[SoxnCycles]

Clay's doesnt look so bad?.....

 

He's the worst pitcher in the history of pitching.

They should have shot him at sunrise.

[Kimmi]

Ain't that the truth.

 

(Meanwhile, Price gets castigated by the media for 8-inning, 3-run performances because the offense couldn't score for him.)

 

I love this tweet:

 

Red Sox Stats ‏@redsoxstats 9h9 hours ago

 

Price: 8 ip, 3 er, "this guy sucks" Wright: 6 ip, 4 er, "great job again"

 

Price did his job in his last outing - I have no complaints about that.

 

That said, much of the criticism of Price, fair or unfair, is perception and expectations. Price is a $30 mil per year ace, while Wright is a $500,000 journeyman. What is considered a good job by one pitcher is not considered a good job by another. Even taking salary out of the picture, that would be the case.

[Slasher9]

there is a bit of a difference Kimmi.

when your "Ace" is on the mound you dont expect the tone of the game to be set by:

HR

single

BB

single

before a single out is made.

being down 2-0 before your team even comes up to bat is what is expected from Clay Buchholz. not the "Ace".....

[Kimmi]

Harmony is cagey though. He points out that 'Buchholz-Miley choice' was never confirmed, only speculated. But then he makes a case for why the M's would have preferred Miley given the choice.

 

Why is that cagey? He has not flip-flopped, nor has he said anything false.

 

I, too, have said that I would not be surprised if the Ms preferred Miley. Perhaps they were given a choice and they chose Miley, but we don't know that.

 

My biggest beef with some of the arguments here is the leap to the statements that the Mariners clearly did not want Buchholz. There is no merit to that statement.

[Kimmi]

Jesus, I want buchholz gone just to shut you up.

 

I'm actually kind of hoping the Sox pick up his option again, just so we can continue these debates for another year.