Sox Pitching Staff Discussion

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

Because trades like that are basically fanfiction.

 

It certainly would have been possible.

[Kimmi]

Doubtful. Mariners wanted no part of Buchholz, why would someone else?

 

There is no proof of that.

[mvp 78]

It certainly would have been possible.

 

There is no proof of that.

[Kimmi]

hey Kimmi. i think plan b was wright / owens / kelly. to me that was a solid plan B. except all 3 imploded. and kneE-Rod got hurt. hopefully osully can put together a few good starts when needed.....

 

I don't really disagree. I was fine with the rotation going into the season.

[mvp 78]

There is no proof of that.

 

They just simply preferred Miley then?

[mvp 78]

Saying the plan was a good one doesn't make it so.

 

You can't rely on guys who rarely make it through a full season. You can't rely on AAA guys who haven't had success in MLB.

[Kimmi]

They just simply preferred Miley then?

 

That could be the case, but there is no proof of that either.

[mvp 78]

That could be the case, but there is no proof of that either.

 

Then there is no proof of anything. I myself am not a nihilist.

[Slasher9]

Saying the plan was a good one doesn't make it so.

 

You can't rely on guys who rarely make it through a full season. You can't rely on AAA guys who haven't had success in MLB.

 

so you wanted DD to go out and sign/trade for 4 new SP this past offseason?

thats kind of a big ask....

[moonslav59]

so you wanted DD to go out and sign/trade for 4 new SP this past offseason?

thats kind of a big ask....

 

One more very good one would have been nice. It was obvious to me we'd be needing at least one by the break right from day one of the season.

[harmony]

They just simply preferred Miley then?

I can't answer the question, but Wade Miley reportedly was the most-asked-for of the available Red Sox starters last offseason, according to Dave Dombrowski, as quoted by Boston Globe columnist Nick Cafardo in December:

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/12/08/red-sox-traded-away-wrong-guy-wade-miley/F29p2YXUJ8G8Mx3ijW0v0N/story.html

[User Name]

And it was reported widely (we've had this discussion before) that the Mariners were offered one of Miley/Buchholz in the deal. They chose Miley.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

Just because the Mariners preferred miley over buch doesn't mean there was absolutely no market for buch.

[User Name]

That's not what I'm hinting at though. I'm confirming that, at the very least, the M's didn't want him.

[harmony]

And it was reported widely (we've had this discussion before) that the Mariners were offered one of Miley/Buchholz in the deal. They chose Miley.

It was not widely reported that Seattle was offered one of Wade Miley or Clay Buchholz

 

It was widely reported that the Red Sox and Mariners were in negotiations while the media speculated that Miley and/or Buchholz were discussed. Google "Mariners Buchholz Miley."

 

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=mariners+buchholz+miley

[Slasher9]

That's not what I'm hinting at though. I'm confirming that, at the very least, the M's didn't want him.

 

sorry, but you cannot confirm that. they were given a choice (apparently - according to you). they got to choose one of two. that doesnt mean they didnt want both.

[Kimmi]

It was not widely reported that Seattle was offered one of Wade Miley or Clay Buchholz

 

It was widely reported that the Red Sox and Mariners were in negotiations while the media speculated that Miley and/or Buchholz were discussed. Google "Mariners Buchholz Miley."

 

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=mariners+buchholz+miley

 

Thank you.

[Kimmi]

sorry, but you cannot confirm that. they were given a choice (apparently - according to you). they got to choose one of two. that doesnt mean they didnt want both.

 

I'm not even sure they were given a choice. As Harmony said, the media speculated that a deal centered around either Miley or Buchholz, but weren't sure which of the two it was.

 

They might have been offered both, and they probably did prefer Miley, but it's a stretch to say that they didn't want Buchholz.

[harmony]

I don't doubt Seattle preferred Wade Miley to Clay Buchholz (IF given the choice) but I would note that Miley and Buchholz share the same ERA+ of 77 this season.

 

Advanced metrics give the edge to Miley:

 

WM 15 G, 15 GS, 87.1 IP, 5.36 ERA, 1.40 WHIP, 0.0 bWAR, 0.2 fWAR

CB 18 G, 13 GS, 80.2 IP, 5.91 ERA, 1.49 WHIP, -0.9 bWAR, -0.5 fWAR

 

Neither has provided desired results.

[User Name]

sorry, but you cannot confirm that. they were given a choice (apparently - according to you). they got to choose one of two. that doesnt mean they didnt want both.

 

If they wanted Buchholz, he would realistically be with the M's right now.

[User Name]

It was not widely reported that Seattle was offered one of Wade Miley or Clay Buchholz

 

It was widely reported that the Red Sox and Mariners were in negotiations while the media speculated that Miley and/or Buchholz were discussed. Google "Mariners Buchholz Miley."

 

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=mariners+buchholz+miley

 

Kind of a flip-flopper aren't you?

[harmony]

Kind of a flip-flopper aren't you?

My posts have consistently corrected the misinformation.

[User Name]

I can easily look up a post from not even a month ago where you agreed with the notion that the pitchers involved were Miley-Buch, but the Mariners chose Miley. Saying otherwise now is flip flopping.

[Bellhorn04]

I suspect Seattle preferred Wade Miley over Clay Buchholz because the lefthander is younger, more durable, less expensive and under team control for more years.

 

For what it's worth, over the four seasons from 2012 to 2015 Miley posted 10.0 fWAR and 8.1 bWAR while Buchholz posted 8.3 fWAR and 6.3 bWAR.

 

If the Mariners had a choice between Miley and Buchholz, the decision was a no-brainer.

 

This post?

[Slasher9]

If they wanted Buchholz, he would realistically be with the M's right now.

 

I guess my point was that you can want both but if you can only choose one that is all you get. it doesnt mean you dont like the one you didnt get to take.

[User Name]

It's not that they "didn't get to take" Buchholz. It's that they chose Miley over him. The context is different.

[User Name]

This post?

 

Among others actually.

[Jack Flap]

Not to be Debbie Downer here, but over his last 3 starts, Wright has allowed 12 ER on 24 H and 6 BB in 15.2 IP, for a 6.89 ERA and a WHIP close to 2. It's only 3 starts, and his first half run has been amazing overall, but if he starts turning back into a pumpkin, our rotation is going to be in even deeper s***.

[Bellhorn04]

Not to be Debbie Downer here, but over his last 3 starts, Wright has allowed 12 ER on 24 H and 6 BB in 15.2 IP, for a 6.89 ERA and a WHIP close to 2. It's only 3 starts, and his first half run has been amazing overall, but if he starts turning back into a pumpkin, our rotation is going to be in even deeper s***.

 

Run support does tend to influence the way we judge a pitcher's performance.

[Slasher9]

Not to be Debbie Downer here, but over his last 3 starts, Wright has allowed 12 ER on 24 H and 6 BB in 15.2 IP, for a 6.89 ERA and a WHIP close to 2. It's only 3 starts, and his first half run has been amazing overall, but if he starts turning back into a pumpkin, our rotation is going to be in even deeper s***.

 

i just posted on another thread that it looks Wright might be earthbound and (thankfully) our offense bailed him out. maybe he needs a sitdown with wakey-wakey to get back on track......