Sox Pitching Staff Discussion

[moonslav59]

So the Yanks are "out of it" and the sawx are buyers yet only 3.5 games separates them.

Got it, thanks.

 

I've already mentioned the Sox may be sellers.

Many reports are out on the Yanks being sellers this July.

I'm not so sure you do "got it".

[moonslav59]

Koji was a one-hit-wonder as closer. He wasn't even a closer prior Boston.

 

...and remember, he was not even going to be our closer. We were very very lucky to give him that role.

 

So, when management chose wisely, it was all luck then.

[moonslav59]

I certainly understand that.

 

But to proclaim one team out of it and the other to be buyers when they are separated by 3.5 games on the last day of June is silly at best.

 

I meant to say "probably out of it" and merely listed the players that we might want or need on the losing-most teams in MLB at the time.

 

I have stated a few times that I think the Sox may be sellers in July as well, so stop inventing positions I do not hold. Even if the Sox are out of it, I wouldn't mind us trying to acquire a decent pitcher under team control for 3+ seasons, but that is unlikely at deadline costs. It's very rare for a team to be a buyer and seller at the same deadline.

 

The way things are going now, the Yanks and Sox may both be sellers at the deadline.

[iortiz]

So, when management chose wisely, it was all luck then.

 

The wise move would have been keep Papelbon.

[moonslav59]

And, by the way, 3.5 games at the deadline could be the difference between being "still in it" or "pretty much out of it".

 

There's talk the Pirates are considering being sellers too.

 

It's not always about your record. Sometimes it's about how many teams you have to leap frog, and how your team seems to be trending. Also, how much management still has faith in the current roster construction. You think the Yanks have faith in Tex, CC and ARod catching fire and leading the Yanks to the playoffs? Is there a better chance HanRam, Price and Porcello turns things around for the Sox?

 

Maybe- maybe not. It's not really about what we think anyways, it's what upper management thinks to trigger the "sell" mode.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

so you think the Sox are out of it?

or you think the yankees are in it and should be buyers?

which one?

 

Geez, I already answered that above.

[Station 13]

The wise move would have been keep Papelbon.

 

This drums is still being beat? Papelbon would throw about 2-3% of the total innings out of team innings. Red Sox have missed the playofsf not because of who the airhead is closing out games.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

I meant to say "probably out of it" and merely listed the players that we might want or need on the losing-most teams in MLB at the time.

 

I have stated a few times that I think the Sox may be sellers in July as well, so stop inventing positions I do not hold. Even if the Sox are out of it, I wouldn't mind us trying to acquire a decent pitcher under team control for 3+ seasons, but that is unlikely at deadline costs. It's very rare for a team to be a buyer and seller at the same deadline.

 

The way things are going now, the Yanks and Sox may both be sellers at the deadline.

 

Well you didn't say probably.

 

And I didn't invent any position. You were looking at players for the sawx to aquire. That sounds like you think they are buyers to me.

[iortiz]

This drums is still being beat? Papelbon would throw about 2-3% of the total innings out of team innings. Red Sox have missed the playofsf not because of who the airhead is closing out games.

 

No one is arguing that station although it was part of the problem when Papelbon wasn't around until we found Koji.

 

Anyways... DD has a tremendous challenge right now, fix the mess in our rotation in the next month.

[moonslav59]

Well you didn't say probably.

 

And I didn't invent any position. You were looking at players for the sawx to aquire. That sounds like you think they are buyers to me.

 

The Sox are certainly possible buyers, but the deadline is still far away. Much can change by then, and losing two of 3 to the Rays since my post on available players has not helped anyone's belief that we should be buyers.

 

Look, I'm sorry if I ruffled your panties by suggesting the Yanks will be sellers in July, but the Yankee trade talk is all over baseball media, MLBTRs and other sites. I don't see much chatter on Sox players being available, but that could change at any minute.

 

It's not all about records and games behind. There have been sellers in MLB that some felt were not "out of it". There has also been buyers that many felt were all but out of it.It sucks being sellers at the deadline, and Sox fans know all about that, so maybe Yankeee fans don't.

 

Get used to it. The Yanks will "PROBABLY" be sellers for a few more years.

[iortiz]

IMO we are more likely buyers than sellers, but the gap between us and BAL doesn't have to get wider or at least the battle for the WC has to be realistic.

[Jack Flap]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/06/braves-trade-bud-norris-dodgers.html

 

I never thought I'd be sad that we didn't get Bud Norris, and yet...

[moonslav59]

IMO we are more likely buyers than sellers, but the gap between us and BAL doesn't have to get wider or at least the battle for the WC has to be realistic.

 

As badly as we've been playing, we're still the a WC team right now. Toronto is the other. The Astros are trending upwards and are only 1/2 game behind. The Royals are also a 1/2 game behind, so any team behind those 4 teams has to beat 3 out of the four to make the WC. That's not impossible, but it's not easy either. The Yanks also have Detroit, Chicago and Seattle ahead of them. The Yanks also have to face Baltimore, Toronto and Boston much more often than Detroit has to face CLE & KCR or SEA has to face TEX & HOU.

 

Is there any indication that the Yanks have the team on paper to mount a serious challenge for the WC? Their pitching has been very good, so I guess there's always a chance. They have the highest team pitching WAR in the AL right now, so I'm not writing them off, but certainly buy July 31st, they may be sellers. Some already view them as such right now as there is a lot of talk about trading Chapman and Miller.

[moonslav59]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/06/braves-trade-bud-norris-dodgers.html

 

I never thought I'd be sad that we didn't get Bud Norris, and yet...

 

For those out there who doubt the value of great SP'ers vs everyday players, here's an interesting factoid:

 

LAD ERA ranks 5th in MLB.

 

If you took away Kershaw's IP, they'd rank 14th!

 

How many hitters can bring their team from 14th to 5th single-handedly?

 

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

The Sox are certainly possible buyers, but the deadline is still far away. Much can change by then, and losing two of 3 to the Rays since my post on available players has not helped anyone's belief that we should be buyers.

 

Look, I'm sorry if I ruffled your panties by suggesting the Yanks will be sellers in July, but the Yankee trade talk is all over baseball media, MLBTRs and other sites. I don't see much chatter on Sox players being available, but that could change at any minute.

 

It's not all about records and games behind. There have been sellers in MLB that some felt were not "out of it". There has also been buyers that many felt were all but out of it.It sucks being sellers at the deadline, and Sox fans know all about that, so maybe Yankeee fans don't.

 

Get used to it. The Yanks will "PROBABLY" be sellers for a few more years.

 

You didn't ruffle any panties, you just made a silly statement.

 

And as far as your prediction that the Yanks will be sellers for the foreseeable future, I will take that with a grain of salt judging from your predictions for the sawx over the last handful of seasons.

[Spudboy]

I see no reason why a team, any team, can't be both a seller and a buyer come the deadline. The idea is to make the team stronger.

[SoxnCycles]

I see no reason why a team, any team, can't be both a seller and a buyer come the deadline. The idea is to make the team stronger.

 

In general, buyers usually trade prospects to aquire roster improvements. Sellers usually trade major leaguers to restock the minors.

Semantics, really.

[moonslav59]

I see no reason why a team, any team, can't be both a seller and a buyer come the deadline. The idea is to make the team stronger.

 

True, but it rarely happens, in fact I can't think of a time any team has traded a player for prospects at the deadline, then traded prospects for a vet.

 

Usually, the cost is higher to obtain a quality player under team control for several years at the deadline than in winter months. We don't need a rental. Trading good prospects for a rental would PISS me off.

[moonslav59]

You didn't ruffle any panties, you just made a silly statement.

 

There's a better than 50-50 chanc e the Yanks are sellers this July, so even as originally stated, I'm not sure I'd call it "silly".

The teams I listed will probably all be "out of it" at the deadline. Maybe the Pirates and others will join them. Maybe the Sox will join them, and the whole idea of listing teams we can "buy" from will look silly when the deadline arrives. I get that.

 

I should have said "probably" on my original post. I did think the teams I listed were highly likely to be sellers and still do, but in baseball, we all know things can change. Teams can get hot overnight. Maybe the Yanks turn thing around and make me look silly. As you pointed out, it wouldn't be the first time I've projected wrongly.

 

I've been wrong on the Sox for several years. Even the 2013 season I got wrong. I think I've done a little better projecting the Yanks. I said they'd begin to decline due to age issues and the bloated salaries of their aging stars, but I thought it would start happening earlier than 2013. I never said they'd be at last place level, but three years in a row with 84 to 87 wins can certainly be viewed as a decline.

 

They will start to drop some heavy salaries soon, so they will be making some big moves again soon. We'll see if they can beat the league rate on signing big name FAs that actually earn their keep. A strikingly small percent do. The Sox have ample evidence to prove that point. The Yanks have done better (than the Sox) recently with signings like Beltran & McCann, but the Ellsbury signing can be viewed as cancelling out the positives of other signings.

 

Maybe my Yankee projection is based more on wishful thinking than factual evidence, as the Yanks do have some nice young talent, but they appear to have more holes than we do and don't have the 4 blue chip prospects we have.

 

[Bellhorn04]

For those out there who doubt the value of great SP'ers vs everyday players, here's an interesting factoid:

 

LAD ERA ranks 5th in MLB.

 

If you took away Kershaw's IP, they'd rank 14th!

 

How many hitters can bring their team from 14th to 5th single-handedly?

 

 

Good point. On the same note, they're 14-2 in Kershaw games, 30-35 in other games.

[Slasher9]

perfect example of how Price is not even close to being an "Ace"....

[User Name]

Did Price steal your lunch money when you were in high school?

 

I mean, it's clear he's underperformed, but goddamn.

[a700hitter]

Did Price steal your lunch money when you were in high school?

 

I mean, it's clear he's underperformed, but goddamn.

There was no better ace available in FA this past off season and we got him and people are all over the guy 3 months into his contract. I don't get it. Were we supposed to ride out the last place finishes with what we had?

[Bellhorn04]

There was no better ace available in FA this past off season and we got him and people are all over the guy 3 months into his contract. I don't get it.

 

Really? It's not much different from the way people got on Porcello last year. Or the way Sox fans always get on guys who are making huge money and underperforming.

 

At the same time Price is a guy who deserves some extra patience with his track record and his obvious work ethic.

[User Name]

I'm consistent though. I defended Porcello last year, and I've been rewarded for my faith.

[Slasher9]

Hopefully Pedroia worked with him during yesterdays off day......

[a700hitter]

Really? It's not much different from the way people got on Porcello last year. Or the way Sox fans always get on guys who are making huge money and underperforming.

 

At the same time Price is a guy who deserves some extra patience with his track record and his obvious work ethic.

And your point about Price is?

[mvp 78]

I'm consistent though. I defended Porcello last year, and I've been rewarded for my faith.

 

I also own this movie

[Bellhorn04]

And your point about Price is?

 

My point is I don't know why you're surprised people are all over him when it's just normal fan behavior.

[a700hitter]

My point is I don't know why you're surprised people are all over him when it's just normal fan behavior.

Because people whined for an ace and DD got the best one available.