Sox Pitching Staff Discussion

[Nick]

Moon, you make a good point.

 

As well as Price is pitching lately, essentially he's only good to us every 5th day. Wright looks to be our #2 guy as long as his ball is dating and he's able to throw for strikes. We're stuck with Porcello due to his contract.

Rodriquez eventually will recover fully. I'm just not sure if there's anyone out there to come in as our #2 guy, which is what we need not only for this year but for next few years.

 

We may have to let one of our 4 top prospects go and I tend to go with our young pitcher Espinoza. We need a pitcher NOW, not three years down the road.

[moonslav59]

I would just like to point out that the Orioles' starters have an ERA of 4.77, worse than ours. Their overall ERA is 4.11, better than ours, but not by much.

 

Before tonight's game, the Sox and O's had an identical ERA- (96).

 

Our starters are better than theirs, according to ERA- (103 to 111).

 

Their pen is better by 11 (70 to 81).

[moonslav59]

Moon, you make a good point.

 

As well as Price is pitching lately, essentially he's only good to us every 5th day. Wright looks to be our #2 guy as long as his ball is dating and he's able to throw for strikes. We're stuck with Porcello due to his contract.

Rodriquez eventually will recover fully. I'm just not sure if there's anyone out there to come in as our #2 guy, which is what we need not only for this year but for next few years.

 

We may have to let one of our 4 top prospects go and I tend to go with our young pitcher Espinoza. We need a pitcher NOW, not three years down the road.

 

I thought this past winter was our best opportunity to add two top SP'ers. It was one of the two main reasons I was firmly against the Kimbrel trade. I felt we should have added to the package that landed Kimbrel and gotten another 1 or 2 type SP'er. My actual suggested trade offers often included Margot and Guerra plus Swihart and/or Devers, and if needed, we could have added Holt, Kelly, Owens, Johnson or Kopech. That was before some of these guys' stock fell.

 

The other major reason was that Kimbrel is being paid near FA money, so I couldn't see why we gave up so much to essentially sign a FA closer who might pitch 60 innings a year.

 

I don't want to bring up the whole Kimbrel argument again. Thge horse has been beaten to death. We got an ace and a top closer. Both have helped us to get where we are today.

 

I have always been of a mind to want to build our rotation from the top. We won our first ring, when we added Schilling. We won our second ring when we added Beckett. We won our third ring when we had 3 pitchers performing as good as a number 1 or 2.

 

I guess one could argue we have two now, as Price seems to be "in form", but I am pretty certain a Price-Wright one to punch will be enough.

 

Maybe ERod can be our next Lackey, but I'd rather try and play it safe by adding another top of rotation pitcher.

 

The reason I say try is because the price will likely be way too high. I'm willing to trade Swihart, Devers and just about everyone else but Moncada, Beninyendi or Espinoza, but I doubt we get a pitcher under team control for several years at below FA market price without giving up a top 3 prospect as well.

 

I may be wrong, but I think we could have gotten a pitcher described above last winter by offering (remember their value then) Swihart, Devers, Margot, Guerra, Holt, and 1 or 2 from Owens/Johnson/Kopech or the other two guys we traded to SD. If we had to take on a second player as part of the deal- maybe a semi salary dump like Mike Lowell was, then so be it. We ended up paying a lot for Kimbrel anyway.

 

I guess, I'd have to see who is available before I offer a top 3 prospect as part of a big package deal.

 

[Nick]

Interesting article by Jack McCluskey on Steven Wright

 

Mr Wright is supporting a batting average of .254 on balls in play compared to league average of .297....insinuation is that he's been bit lucky so far. But the article goes on to say that he's giving up less hard contact of 26% vs 34% in 2015. Wouldn't less hard contact lead to lower batting average given up on balls in play? Isn't that the essence of a knuckleball pitcher?

[moonslav59]

Interesting article by Jack McCluskey on Steven Wright

 

Mr Wright is supporting a batting average of .254 on balls in play compared to league average of .297....insinuation is that he's been bit lucky so far. But the article goes on to say that he's giving up less hard contact of 26% vs 34% in 2015. Wouldn't less hard contact lead to lower batting average given up on balls in play? Isn't that the essence of a knuckleball pitcher?

 

Yes, less hard contact should translate to less BA against.

 

Knuckleballers are notorious for allowing more HRs and long fly balls than others, so Wright seems to be doing something differently.

[Jack Flap]

He's looked good lately, but his AAA WHIP number is not that encouraging:

 

1.443 WHIP (4.0 BB/9)

 

I do agree; he deserves a chance.

 

 

2.00 ERA, 0.92 WHIP, and 5.00 K/BB over his last 5 starts, though.

 

Hopefully he can carry that success over to the major leagues. He has a decent track record of being a close to league average SP, which isn't exciting but would be a big improvement over the garbage results we've gotten from the Buch/Kelly/Owens/O'Sullivan group so far.

[Nick]

next two games are huge for the Sox...yeah winning matters but I'm more interested in how the starter goes....Baltimore will be a tough test for E Rod then we get to look at Elias vs Seattle.

 

If THAT works out then we can push Kelly into the bullpen when he returns....Tazawa just doesn't do it for me anymore..

[moonslav59]

2.00 ERA, 0.92 WHIP, and 5.00 K/BB over his last 5 starts, though.

 

Hopefully he can carry that success over to the major leagues. He has a decent track record of being a close to league average SP, which isn't exciting but would be a big improvement over the garbage results we've gotten from the Buch/Kelly/Owens/O'Sullivan group so far.

 

I totally agree, and that's why I think he deserves this chance.

[moonslav59]

next two games are huge for the Sox...yeah winning matters but I'm more interested in how the starter goes....Baltimore will be a tough test for E Rod then we get to look at Elias vs Seattle.

 

If THAT works out then we can push Kelly into the bullpen when he returns....Tazawa just doesn't do it for me anymore..

 

Last winter, before the Kimbrel trade, I suggested making Kelly or even Buch our closer. Wonder how that might have worked out.

[greenwell]

Moon, you make a good point.

 

As well as Price is pitching lately, essentially he's only good to us every 5th day. Wright looks to be our #2 guy as long as his ball is dating and he's able to throw for strikes. We're stuck with Porcello due to his contract.

Rodriquez eventually will recover fully. I'm just not sure if there's anyone out there to come in as our #2 guy, which is what we need not only for this year but for next few years.

 

We may have to let one of our 4 top prospects go and I tend to go with our young pitcher Espinoza. We need a pitcher NOW, not three years down the road.

 

Is Porcello really a 'stuck with'. In the AL he ranks 20th in era, 6th in whip, 8th in K/BB, 14th in QS.

[Nick]

Porcello is much improved from last year....extension did not look good last year (new contract starting in 2016) but it may eventually flip in the favor of the Sox. Bad choice of word? Yep....

[greenwell]

 

Maybe ERod can be our next Lackey, but I'd rather try and play it safe by adding another top of rotation pitcher.

 

The reason I say try is because the price will likely be way too high. I'm willing to trade Swihart, Devers and just about everyone else but Moncada, Beninyendi or Espinoza, but I doubt we get a pitcher under team control for several years at below FA market price without giving up a top 3 prospect as well.

 

 

I think I'm in the minority here, but I'd be willing to give up Moncada or Benitendi for a young Top of the rotation starter. I'd prefer Moncada, both because I think you can get more for him and I like the idea of a Benitendi, Bradley, Betts outfield in the years to come.

[Bellhorn04]

Last winter, before the Kimbrel trade, I suggested making Kelly or even Buch our closer. Wonder how that might have worked out.

 

Closers have to stay on the field too. Don't underestimate the ability of these guys to get injured no matter whether they're starting, closing or sleeping.

[moonslav59]

Closers have to stay on the field too. Don't underestimate the ability of these guys to get injured no matter whether they're starting, closing or sleeping.

 

Yeah, but they only pitch 50-65 innings a year. I realize it takes a different routine and mentality to be a closer, so I'm not saying I felt confident it would work out very well, but I felt maybe a chance of pace might help keep them healthier. Both Buch and Kelly have shown the nasty stuff a closer needs to be great, so to me, it was all about their mindset and ability to stay healthy.

[moonslav59]

I think I'm in the minority here, but I'd be willing to give up Moncada or Benitendi for a young Top of the rotation starter. I'd prefer Moncada, both because I think you can get more for him and I like the idea of a Benitendi, Bradley, Betts outfield in the years to come.

 

I'm open to trading anyone for a great young SP'er with 4+ years of team control at a reasonable contractual cost, and I agree on Moncada. To me, our greatest positional need going forward might be 3B or 1B with LF not too far behind. Moncada could probably do fine at any of those three spots. Benintendi is an OF'er only.

 

I want someone truly great to give up one of our top three, but I'm also willing to include Swihart and/or Devers plus lesser prospects to get the best.

[Jack Flap]

Short of someone like Jose Fernandez or Chris Sale unexpectedly becoming available, I don't know who's going to be on the market this summer that would be worth giving up Moncada for. Very few teams are close to selling mode at this point, and the ones that are don't exactly seem flush with the kind of controllable TOTR pitching we'd want. Edited June 16, 2016 by Jack Flap

[moonslav59]

Here's a list of the top qualifying pitchers by ERA- since the start of 2015:

Arrieta

Kershaw

Greinke

Chatwood

G Cole

Lackey

deGrom

Maeda

Bumgarner

Price

Estrada

Lester

Syndergaard

Scherzer

Cueto

Quintana

Salazar

Sale

Lynn

Keuchel

Tanaka

C Martinez

J Hammel

C Hamels

Burnett

S Gray

F Hernandez

Harvey

Odorizzi

Volquez

 

Here's a list of 27 or younger starters with 100+ IP since 2015:

Kershaw

Keuchel

S Matz

J Fernandez

deGrom

Cole

Bumgarner

Syndergaard

Qunitana

Salazar

Eickoff

Sale

Stasburg

Tanaka

C Mart

Nola

Aaron Sanchez

Joe Ross

Gray

MCCullers

Harvey

Erasmo Ramirez

Odorizzi

Martin Perez

D Pomeranz

Archer

Finnegan

K Hendricks

R Ray

S Miller

K Gibson

A Heaney

Teheran

N Karns

C Rodon

M Leake

G Richards

Stroman

N Martinez

R Iglesias

H Santiago

Bolsinger

Eduardo Rodrigues

Wacha

A Conley

B Anderson

J Nelson

DeSclafani

 

These are all at a 99 or lower ERA- since the start of 2015.

 

[moonslav59]

Would anyone trade these players to the Phillies for Aaron Nola and Jerad Eickoff:

 

Swihart

Devers'

3 from:

Kopech

Owens

Johnson

Lakins

Dubon

[mvp 78]

Would anyone trade these players to the Phillies for Aaron Nola and Jerad Eickoff:

 

Swihart

Devers'

3 from:

Kopech

Owens

Johnson

Lakins

Dubon

 

For both? They could have all of those guys. Hard to trade Swihart while he's on the DL though.

[mvp 78]

https://theringer.com/steven-wright-and-the-knuckleball-contradiction-a8bf864e24f0#.j06o6t8tm

 

Not sure if anyone has posted this article yet. Even if you don't actually read it, it's worth it just to watch the vine of a nasty knuckler than Wright throws to Chris Davis.

[mvp 78]

"The White Sox announced today that they’ve requested waivers for the purpose of granting Latos his unconditional release. Assuming no team claims the remainder of his salary, he’ll officially be a free agent once he clears in 48 hours."

 

Anyone still have interest? You can offer him the veteran minimum on Saturday.

[Spudboy]

"The White Sox announced today that they’ve requested waivers for the purpose of granting Latos his unconditional release. Assuming no team claims the remainder of his salary, he’ll officially be a free agent once he clears in 48 hours."

 

Anyone still have interest? You can offer him the veteran minimum on Saturday.

 

Some team will grab him.

[User Name]

"The White Sox announced today that they’ve requested waivers for the purpose of granting Latos his unconditional release. Assuming no team claims the remainder of his salary, he’ll officially be a free agent once he clears in 48 hours."

 

Anyone still have interest? You can offer him the veteran minimum on Saturday.

 

Better than Kelly.

[d-money]

I still feel someone like rich hill would be less expensive. They would give up something but not alot.

[mvp 78]

I still feel someone like rich hill would be less expensive. They would give up something but not alot.

 

Will he pitch again this year? He makes Buchholz look like Cal Ripken.

[cp176]

I still feel someone like rich hill would be less expensive. They would give up something but not alot.

 

Maybe they can get him for Brentz, Rutledge, and a Marerro or two. Other than that really? You want to give up possibly good prospects for the rich Hill's of the world?

[moonslav59]

Maybe they can get him for Brentz, Rutledge, and a Marerro or two. Other than that really? You want to give up possibly good prospects for the rich Hill's of the world?

 

Would you give Dubon and Lakins?

[bosoxmal]

Can I assume that 5days hence we will see Buch again? With eRod in Pawtucket? Buchholz certainly earned a shot.

 

Note: The Forum was not accessible during this entire game (6/16)

[Nick]

Dice K Rodriquez is the new nick name for E Rod....I asked does he get bonus for going full count on hitters?

 

Just can't locate when he has to....walking the number 9 hitter is simply unacceptable....I couldn't wait to watch him pitch all last year...this is a bad pitching staff. Our bats will cool, lack of power will eventually catch up....

[moonslav59]

The kid deserves a longer look.