Who is the best Sox defender right now?

[sk7326]

The Sox have gotten supremely lucky in the last decade with guys who never came up as first basemen playing first base extremely well. Youk was incredible defensively despite being a third baseman to begin with, and now Hanley. Granted, Hanley is so far a small sample size, but you're right in that he is playing like he was always meant to do this.

 

It's because 1B is the position where you move bats without positions (when the DH is not an option).

[S5Dewey]

It's because 1B is the position where you move bats without positions (when the DH is not an option).

 

Well...yes. But let's not scoff at the value of a good first baseman. I was expecting Hanley to NOT be a good first baseman this year by NOT scooping throws in the dirt well and NOT hustling. But he's doing both and it's making a big difference.

 

I liked the idea of moving Youk to first base - you're 90' away and the ball comes off the bat at the same angle (only the mirror image) and both positions require quickness rather than range. It always seemed logical to me that if a player could play 3B he could also play 1B, the only real difference being the footwork.

 

I also liked the idea of Napoli moving to 1B for somewhat the same reasons. Handling balls in the dirt and quickness as opposed to range.

 

Having a converted SS at 1B is a huge plus in that he not only has some quickness left he also has some range. On occasion he's still learning about how to handle balls weakly hit his way (for example) and how far to his right he can roam to get to a ground ball, but he's embracing being as good a first baseman as he can be. IMO he will only get better.

[illinoisredsox]

Well...yes. But let's not scoff at the value of a good first baseman. I was expecting Hanley to NOT be a good first baseman this year by NOT scooping throws in the dirt well and NOT hustling. But he's doing both and it's making a big difference.

 

I liked the idea of moving Youk to first base - you're 90' away and the ball comes off the bat at the same angle (only the mirror image) and both positions require quickness rather than range. It always seemed logical to me that if a player could play 3B he could also play 1B, the only real difference being the footwork.

 

I also liked the idea of Napoli moving to 1B for somewhat the same reasons. Handling balls in the dirt and quickness as opposed to range.

 

Having a converted SS at 1B is a huge plus in that he not only has some quickness left he also has some range. On occasion he's still learning about how to handle balls weakly hit his way (for example) and how far to his right he can roam to get to a ground ball, but he's embracing being as good a first baseman as he can be. IMO he will only get better.

 

Agree. Hanley has been good, but as an old first sacker, I've seen a few things that could he could improve on. I think he sets up to stretch too soon for one thing; it's forced him to make some plays look more difficult than they needed to be when the throw has been slightly off line. As you said, how far he should range and playing the weak hit balls are a couple more, and he's made some throws a little harder than they need to be by not taking a step right or left as needed. Those are all things that come with experience.

[sk7326]

Well...yes. But let's not scoff at the value of a good first baseman. I was expecting Hanley to NOT be a good first baseman this year by NOT scooping throws in the dirt well and NOT hustling. But he's doing both and it's making a big difference.

 

I liked the idea of moving Youk to first base - you're 90' away and the ball comes off the bat at the same angle (only the mirror image) and both positions require quickness rather than range. It always seemed logical to me that if a player could play 3B he could also play 1B, the only real difference being the footwork.

 

I also liked the idea of Napoli moving to 1B for somewhat the same reasons. Handling balls in the dirt and quickness as opposed to range.

 

Having a converted SS at 1B is a huge plus in that he not only has some quickness left he also has some range. On occasion he's still learning about how to handle balls weakly hit his way (for example) and how far to his right he can roam to get to a ground ball, but he's embracing being as good a first baseman as he can be. IMO he will only get better.

 

I don't deny it - but it's a place to put a guy who can rake ... I am not trying to rain on Ramirez' parade, but if he weren't so transcendentally awful in LF last season, I suspect the discussion this season would not feel so amazing.

[bosoxmal]

Pedroia---by a mile!

[S5Dewey]

I don't deny it - but it's a place to put a guy who can rake ... I am not trying to rain on Ramirez' parade, but if he weren't so transcendentally awful in LF last season, I suspect the discussion this season would not feel so amazing.

 

Good point. At the end of the day perspective is everything!

[mvp 78]

Everybody is playing great defense but I have to give it to Hanley, no one in earth saw this coming. He plays 1B like he has been there forever.

 

You must have UN and me on ignore?

[Maxbialystock]

Pedroia---by a mile!

 

I said Ramirez in the OP, but my heart is solidly with you. Pedroia by a mile!

[Kimmi]

there were a few of us that thought he would be fine and thrive at 1b. i predicted GG defense from him.

 

I was scared to death of having Hanley move to 1B. I am very glad that he has proven me wrong with his defense. That said, I was not concerned about him rebounding offensively. Go Hanley!

[Kimmi]

I think people need to put weight in defensive metrics, otherwise you're a dinosaur. Now don't get me wrong, scouting and the eye test are still and always will be relevant. But to really use the "eye test" I think you actually have to be at the games scouting the players, you can't scout defense very well from a tv screen.

 

Absolutely Hugh. The eyes can also be deceiving due to bias.

[Kimmi]

Pedroia---by a mile!

 

I was just wondering where all the love for Pedroia was. He has been great defensively so far.

 

Maybe it's because people were not expecting much from Hanley defensively this season that he's getting all the love, but he is not the best defender on the team.

[moonslav59]

1) Vazquez/JBJ

3) Pedroia

4) Betts

5) Bogey

[Kimmi]

That damn catcher position has be perplexed.

 

I'm still wondering how people thing V is better than Swihart. I do myself......... but I have no way to prove it.......

 

To date in 2016, Vazquez is getting .33 extra strikes per game and has been worth .8 runs above average in pitch framing. That's not great for Vazquez, but we should see those numbers improve. In contrast, Swihart was getting -.29 extra strikes per game and was -.3 runs above average, in just 8 games.

 

In 2014, Vazquez' pitch framing was worth 12.2 runs in the short time that he played. In 2015, Swihart's pitch framing cost the team 1.8 runs.

 

And that's just pitch framing. That doesn't include gunning down base runners, blocking pitches, and the comfort/confidence intangibles.

[Emp9]

RSDD and I have eaten a considerable amount of crow over our position regarding Hanley at 1B. I think I can speak for him when I say that while the meal wasn't very tasty it was well worth eating.

 

Yeah but at least you actually went to the ST games and just reported on what you saw. I can't fault you on that. It had some basis to it (especially those first two weeks). But The middle of last summer when the whispers of him moving to 1B started, many posters just knocked it out of some weird need to be negative... Like... on principal. Big difference.

[Emp9]

Best defensive player in my book so far has been... JBJ. I don't want a Jeter out there jumping for a ball that he could have made way more easily if he didn't jump at all. If you jump up 4 ft and catch the ball waist high, guess what? You didn't need to jump. And it shouldn't be a Web Gem (if WebGems still exist?). JBJ covers so much ground so easily, it seems we've already taken it for granted. Those spectacular diving plays will come, but theres no need to force them.

[Kimmi]

Yeah but at least you actually went to the ST games and just reported on what you saw. I can't fault you on that. It had some basis to it (especially those first two weeks). But The middle of last summer when the whispers of him moving to 1B started, many posters just knocked it out of some weird need to be negative... Like... on principal. Big difference.

 

I didn't think Hanley would be successful at 1B because I didn't think he would be able to stay focused. However, being involved in nearly every play has had a positive effect on focus, which I did think was a possibility.

 

I'm sure you weren't talking about me, but FTR, I never have the need to be negative.

[Kimmi]

Best defensive player in my book so far has been... JBJ. I don't want a Jeter out there jumping for a ball that he could have made way more easily if he didn't jump at all. If you jump up 4 ft and catch the ball waist high, guess what? You didn't need to jump. And it shouldn't be a Web Gem (if WebGems still exist?). JBJ covers so much ground so easily, it seems we've already taken it for granted. Those spectacular diving plays will come, but theres no need to force them.

 

Spot on point. Some players look like they're making great defensive plays because of the jumps or the dives, whereas a better defender would have made the play look fairly routine. JD Drew comes to mind here. The man got almost no love because he wasn't a dirt dog like Trot was, but fact of the matter is, he was so good defensively that he didn't have to be.

[a700hitter]

Spot on point. Some players look like they're making great defensive plays because of the jumps or the dives, whereas a better defender would have made the play look fairly routine. JD Drew comes to mind here. The man got almost no love because he wasn't a dirt dog like Trot was, but fact of the matter is, he was so good defensively that he didn't have to be.

Drew was an excellent fielder. He got excellent jumps on balls and took great routes to balls. If you really want to appreciate OF play you have to sit in behind the OFers. In Spring Training one year I sat in RF behind Drew. Jay Bruce was the oppositions RFer. Bruce at that time had a good reputation as a fielder, but he didn't compare to Drew. His routes to the ball were not as direct and his jumps were much slower than Drews. I still don't know what their defensive metrics were that year, but there was no question in my mind who was the better RFer at that time.

[Bellhorn04]

J D Drew's baseball instincts were superb. He was also an excellent base runner.

[Bellhorn04]

In the 2007 postseason our late inning outfield was Ellsbury in left, Crisp in centre and Drew in right. I still get the warm and fuzzies when I think about that outfield.

[mvp 78]

In the 2007 postseason our late inning outfield was Ellsbury in left, Crisp in centre and Drew in right. I still get the warm and fuzzies when I think about that outfield.

Dat lack of arm strength tho...

[redsoxdirtdog]

Yeah but at least you actually went to the ST games and just reported on what you saw. I can't fault you on that. It had some basis to it (especially those first two weeks). But The middle of last summer when the whispers of him moving to 1B started, many posters just knocked it out of some weird need to be negative... Like... on principal. Big difference.

 

 

The combination of what happened with both Hanley & Pablo last year, how Pablo came back heavier ( which is manifest ), Hanley's goofing off attitude week 1 of ST, & the unanimously negative reporting at the time, & the perception by many that HanRam was looking like he had done little to prepare for 1st over the off-season, did have me going off about both..... I was watching & reading everything about ST.

 

I could not be happier to be more wrong about Hanley, & have been more than up front about eating crow. LOVE IT! Tastes great even without salt! Hanley has not only clearly put out a major effort, but has had a fantastic attitude. His play has been more than solid! At the pkate, he has done everything asked of him, even sacrificing power for a more team first solid contact approach. Hats off to him!

 

Still hitting .500.

[Spudboy]

Pedroia.

[redsoxdirtdog]

I would tend to agree. Pedey! He makes incredible plays look routine so often, you sometimes forget what an obvious pick he is.

[Kimmi]

Drew was an excellent fielder. He got excellent jumps on balls and took great routes to balls. If you really want to appreciate OF play you have to sit in behind the OFers. In Spring Training one year I sat in RF behind Drew. Jay Bruce was the oppositions RFer. Bruce at that time had a good reputation as a fielder, but he didn't compare to Drew. His routes to the ball were not as direct and his jumps were much slower than Drews. I still don't know what their defensive metrics were that year, but there was no question in my mind who was the better RFer at that time.

 

We agree on Drew's defense 100%.

 

Flashy does not necessarily mean better.