2016 Trade and Roster Move Speculation thread

[Dojji]

How do any of you guys "know" that Moncada is ready for MLB?

 

I suppose you have gone to many of his games and sat with all the scouts who told you so?

 

What a f***ing joke.

 

The big leap in minor league development is widely considered to be the leap between A and AA. Both Moncada and Benintendi have cleared that leap and just kept going. It really isn't all that absurd or ridiculous to think that they could contribute now. A small market team or a team with a hole in their primary positions (2B and CF respectively) would be seriously considering promoting them to see what they have.

 

I think it's actually passing likely that we will see one, the other, or both, up with the team by September, especially if we sustain any more injuries. The numbers look good, scouts and columnists I trust say the skills match the numbers. There's reason for caution as always, but no reason at all to think the idea that either of those guys could transition to the major leagues in the very near future is a "f***ing joke."

[Nick]

By Moon

 

Well, before the Espi trade I thought it might take Espi, Beni and Swi to get us a much better pitcher than Pomernaz, but I clearly see Beni as our future LF'er. There's another piece to the future roster puzzle of the Sox: assuming Moncada is better offensively than Beni, what if two or three of these things happen by opening day next year:

 

1) We sign Encarnacion to be our DH/1Bman.

2) Pablo comes back in shape next year and wins back the 3B position.

3) Shaw learns to hit LHPs and continues at a near .800 OPS.

4) HanRam ends up near .850 at season end and does well in the playoffs.

5) Sam Travis rakes in ST'ing.

 

The log-jam at 3B/1B/DH could make it feasible to want Moncada in LF over Beni

 

Moon, if 1-5 all happens, I'd be drunk for weeks.

[Spudboy]

The big leap in minor league development is widely considered to be the leap between A and AA. Both Moncada and Benintendi have cleared that leap and just kept going. It really isn't all that absurd or ridiculous to think that they could contribute now. A small market team or a team with a hole in their primary positions (2B and CF respectively) would be seriously considering promoting them to see what they have.

 

I think it's actually passing likely that we will see one, the other, or both, up with the team by September, especially if we sustain any more injuries. The numbers look good, scouts and columnists I trust say the skills match the numbers. There's reason for caution as always, but no reason at all to think the idea that either of those guys could transition to the major leagues in the very near future is a "f***ing joke."

 

Read again. A poster coming to that conclusion is a f***ing joke. Especially after that player has only been successful in AA for a few weeks.

 

You are presumptuous if you believe that you know more about how these things work than I do. But have fun massaging your ego.

[Nick]

Read again. A poster coming to that conclusion is a f***ing joke. Especially after that player has only been successful in AA for a few weeks.

 

You are presumptuous if you believe that you know more about how these things work than I do. But have fun massaging your ego.

 

So assuming no further setbacks, can you outline the progression for Kopech? (i'm not messing with you, I just want to know) thanks

[moonslav59]

By Moon

 

Well, before the Espi trade I thought it might take Espi, Beni and Swi to get us a much better pitcher than Pomernaz, but I clearly see Beni as our future LF'er. There's another piece to the future roster puzzle of the Sox: assuming Moncada is better offensively than Beni, what if two or three of these things happen by opening day next year:

 

1) We sign Encarnacion to be our DH/1Bman.

2) Pablo comes back in shape next year and wins back the 3B position.

3) Shaw learns to hit LHPs and continues at a near .800 OPS.

4) HanRam ends up near .850 at season end and does well in the playoffs.

5) Sam Travis rakes in ST'ing.

 

The log-jam at 3B/1B/DH could make it feasible to want Moncada in LF over Beni

 

Moon, if 1-5 all happens, I'd be drunk for weeks.

 

Me too, but if 2 or 3 of the 5 happen, Moncada may end up competing for the LF position with Beni.

 

I could see us bringing Hill back and having a Shaw/Hill platoon at 3B, HanRam at 1B and Pablo at DH with others getting a turn here and there at DH as well.

 

That could leave LF as the wild card slot.

 

Like I said, I still think 3B is the going to be Moncada's landing spot, but I do see a chance in LF as well (maybe later rather than sooner).

[cp176]

How do any of you guys "know" that Moncada is ready for MLB?

 

I suppose you have gone to many of his games and sat with all the scouts who told you so?

 

What a f***ing joke.

 

No one really knows until they get yarded out there and have the chance to play against the best players in the world. We could all probably make the right call on who "looks" physically ready to play at the ml level and that is about it. Even then the call is apt not to be right.

[Spudboy]

So assuming no further setbacks, can you outline the progression for Kopech? (i'm not messing with you, I just want to know) thanks

 

No. Of course not. I'm not qualified to do so. And that is my point. That no one here has that ability.

 

Now if you want me to guess, I would say Kopech finishes the year at Salem and starts next year in Portland or possibly he gets called up late this year. After that, I see a long adjustment period until he demonstrates great command. He won't be blowing people away with his heat as much, otherwise. AA hitters will expose him to the best bats he's seen. Maybe he hits Boston in late 2018?

 

I'm probably way off. I am guessing based on what top end talents seems to do.

 

He has the physical tools to be good. But his brain has not cooperated. Who knows?

[oldtimer]

There are a lot of ifs here.

 

It would be great to acquire Encarnacion if it can be done without a long term contract at big bucks.

 

I doubt Pablo will ever make it back or get into playing shape. The Sox should just eat the contract and move on without him.

 

Shaw may well improve as he is still fairly new to the majors. He can play first or third for us.

 

Hanley is not my idea of a positive asset long term although we owe him lots of money. He is doing fine at first base, but he looked pathetic at the plate today. He is also poor on the base path. I know he has shown improvement before the all star break but then today he was back to looking bad.

 

Sam Travis may come back strongly from his injury or he could just be considered trade material.

 

Brentz looked lost at the plate today also.

 

We could use help now in the outfield with Benentendi being the closest fit for that position and may prove to be a major asset going into next season. Moncada could possibly play 3rd, he has the tools. We don't really need that now, so a September call up makes sense. Give him reps there now to prepare him. We also have Swihart and Young available for the late season.

 

Next year if looks like we will have a very talented team with the loss of Ortiz being the main downer. We will have a lot of trade material also including catching talent as well. Stay young and talented. Don't set up like the Yankees with a lot of older players who are on large long term contracts and have gone way beyond their prime.

[Nick]

Yep....this Yankee team is hard to watch...too many veterans and it's hard for them to get up with nothing to play for it....you can see it.

[moonslav59]

There are a lot of ifs here.

 

It would be great to acquire Encarnacion if it can be done without a long term contract at big bucks.

 

Edwin turns 34 in January. He's going to want to go for broke an max out years and money. The beast is on pace for his 5th straight .890+ OPS season. I can't blame him.

 

I still think we should spend nearly all our available resources on upgrading the staff, but I have to admit, the idea of signing EE is growing on me.

 

I doubt Pablo will ever make it back or get into playing shape. The Sox should just eat the contract and move on without him.

 

I wouldn't bet on Pablo either, but maybe his pride will kick in, he'll surprise us. He'll be 30 in less than a month, so there's still time.

 

Shaw may well improve as he is still fairly new to the majors. He can play first or third for us.

 

I think there's an equal chance he never has a season over .800 or becomes a platoon corner IF'er.

 

Hanley is not my idea of a positive asset long term although we owe him lots of money. He is doing fine at first base, but he looked pathetic at the plate today. He is also poor on the base path. I know he has shown improvement before the all star break but then today he was back to looking bad.

 

I think we should trade HanRam after the season, before he has another 2015 season. He's too risky and expensive. If he has a decent end to this season, his trading stock may be the highest we'll ever see.

 

Sam Travis may come back strongly from his injury or he could just be considered trade material.

 

Until we know more about Shaw and what position Moncada ends up playing, we may want to hold onto Sam Travis.

 

Brentz looked lost at the plate today also.

 

I don't see him as a realistic FT option anywhere.

 

We could use help now in the outfield with Benentendi being the closest fit for that position and may prove to be a major asset going into next season. Moncada could possibly play 3rd, he has the tools. We don't really need that now, so a September call up makes sense. Give him reps there now to prepare him. We also have Swihart and Young available for the late season.

 

Assuming nobody new gets hurt, we'll be a super deep team by year's end.

 

I think Swihart will be traded this winter, especially if Leon hits above .700 the rest of the way.

 

Next year if looks like we will have a very talented team with the loss of Ortiz being the main downer. We will have a lot of trade material also including catching talent as well. Stay young and talented. Don't set up like the Yankees with a lot of older players who are on large long term contracts and have gone way beyond their prime.

 

With Uehara and Taz also coming off the books, we'll have some holes to fill, but I would be okay with not trying to sign a big bat, and concentrate all our resources on pitching.

Edited July 17, 2016 by moonslav59

[Nick]

Watching Sandy Leon contribute offensively reinforces my inclination to field a respectable hitting line up 1-9 without any black holes.

 

I'm reluctant to give up on Swihart catching at such a young age.

[moonslav59]

Watching Sandy Leon contribute offensively reinforces my inclination to field a respectable hitting line up 1-9 without any black holes.

 

I'm reluctant to give up on Swihart catching at such a young age.

 

I really like Swihart, but I see Vaz as our long term answer at catcher with Leon banging on the door. Since catchers are in super high demand these days, especially ones that project well on offense, I still believe Swihart has higher value with a team in great need of a catcher upgrade. Some of the best teams in MLB today have very weak offense from the catching position.

 

I'm not trying to dump Swihart, and I'm not for just trading him for the best offer out there, but I'd certainly explore the market this winter. I also think Devers might be offered with Swihart to get someone very special. Let's assume we trade Holt, Swihart and Devers for a solid SP'er. We'd have plenty of money to sign Encarnacion and a couple sweet RP'ers.

 

Here's a look at what our 25 man roster might look like:

 

SP1 Price

SP2 Porcello

SP3 (Special Pitcher acquired in the trade mentioned above)

SP4 Wright

SP5 Pomeranz

SP6 ERod

 

Closer) Kimbrel

RP2) Ziegler

RP3) C Smith

RP4) FA

RP5) FA

RP6) Barnes

RP7) Hembree/Kelly/Layne/Ross/Elias/Light and others

 

C) Vazquez

C) Leon (Hanigan?)

1B) Ramirez

DH) Encarnacion

2B) Pedroia

3B) Shaw

IF) Moncada

IF) Hernandez/Pablo/Rutledge/Marrero/Travis

SS) Bogaerts

LF) Benintendi (Moncada?)

LF) Young

CF) JBJ

RF) Betts

 

This could be the line-up:

1) Betts

2) Bogey

3) Encarnacion

4) Bradley

5) Pedey

6) Ramirez/Pablo

7) Moncada/Shaw

8) Benintendi/Young

9) Vazquez/Leon

[Jack Flap]

For what it's worth, the Sox are still scouting Hill:

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/07/latest-on-athletics.html

[moonslav59]

Some one else will overpay for Hill

[Nick]

For what it's worth, the Sox are still scouting Hill:

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/07/latest-on-athletics.html

 

Maybe we're looking to sign him as a free agent. I don't see Athletics not trading him because I doubt that they will want to make a qualifying offer to Hill. Price seems too high for the Athletics.

 

If we sign him as a FA after he's traded than we don't lose a draft choice. It just costs us money. I rather pay Hill big bucks than say Encarnacion (we need top line pitching help). Obviously it would be a gamble. Now if we could sign both, that would be a bold move. It's just money.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Nick

[Hugh2]

I'd love to see one or both of Erod/Owens step it up this year and be able to go into 2017 with a rotation of

 

Price

Pomeranz

Porcello

Wright

Erod/Owens

 

We have the triple B's in the lineup, and now we might have the triple P's in the rotation.

[cp176]

There is a little uncertainty in my mind about how good Owens is going to get. We shall see. I don't have any concerns about E-Rod other than his health. If tipping your pitches is the only thing going against your progress, then you are in pretty good shape. but there i go again - I'm an E-Rod fan and have been since we got him. when he is healthy, he looks like what he was initially projected to be. I think that they got this one right.

[oldtimer]

They took Hill out of the game after a very short period today. Looks like he got traded, but to which team?

[Hugh2]

They took Hill out of the game after a very short period today. Looks like he got traded, but to which team?

 

Not traded, he got injured.

[Jack Flap]

Man, that is some Buchholz-level bad injury timing. It will really suck for the A's if they can't get a good return for him because he's hurt.

 

I'd have liked to have gotten Hill if the price had been reasonable, but it doesn't sound like it was ever going to be, and I can't say I'm sorry that we're not betting our season on him staying healthy.

[Nick]

I guess it's only a blister but they can linger especially on your middle finger throwing hand.

 

Baltimore lost today so we have a chance to pick up a game.....maybe losing to Sox will motivate the Yankees when the Orioles come in next.

[SoxnCycles]

Man, that is some Buchholz-level bad injury timing. It will really suck for the A's if they can't get a good return for him because he's hurt.

 

I'd have liked to have gotten Hill if the price had been reasonable, but it doesn't sound like it was ever going to be, and I can't say I'm sorry that we're not betting our season on him staying healthy.

 

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm there?

If the stories are true about the A's asking for Espinoza, to aquire Hill, the Sox made the right move with Pomeranz.

Pomeranz has durablity issues, but Hill seems to be hurt every 3 weeks.

[Jack Flap]

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm there?

If the stories are true about the A's asking for Espinoza, to aquire Hill, the Sox made the right move with Pomeranz.

Pomeranz has durablity issues, but Hill seems to be hurt every 3 weeks.

 

LOL...that wasn't exactly my intent, but it does sound like Beane overplayed his hand here with crazy demands, driving the Red Sox (who probably could have cobbled together a pretty good package for Hill, albeit not one of the game's top prospects) to seek other options.

[Hugh2]

It's also being reported that when the Sox rejected an Espinoza for Hill trade the A's countered with a deal that didn't involve Espinoza.

[mvp 78]

We probably won't ever know what that second offer was from Oakland, but even just seeing that Espinoza was involved in the first does give you a sense of why the Red Sox chose to pull the trigger on Pomeranz. It's true that you can open negotiations with any names you want--the Sox could go to the Twins to ask about Tyler Pressly and have Terry Ryan ask for Mookie Betts and Yoan Moncada in return for all that it really costs Minnesota. But in reality GMs don't waste time with offers that are ridiculously above their actual asking price.

 

http://www.overthemonster.com/2016/7/18/12211480/athletics-wanted-anderson-espinoza-for-rich-hill

[S5Dewey]

Quote form MVP's link:

"Meanwhile, we can all rest assured that if the Blue Jays or Orioles do finally bite the bullet and try to help their own rotations, they'll be paying a heavy price if they want to make a significant improvement with Hill."

 

That way my initial reaction, too. That if this is what the market is going to be for mid-season pitching then we got a bargain, and anyone else who tries to get a pitcher now is going to pay dearly for it with players they don't want to give up. This only works in our favor.

 

Given the fact that DD probably knows a lot more about being a GM than I do

[mvp 78]

Given the fact that DD probably knows a lot more about being a GM than I do.

 

Don't worry though. I'm sure you know more about being a GM than Ben the Boob!

 

/s

[S5Dewey]

Don't worry though. I'm sure you know more about being a GM than Ben the Boob!

 

/s

 

I'm not even sure if that's a compliment.

[mvp 78]

It was a joke, hence the "/s" sarcasm tag.

 

I think we all have to remember once in a while that even though we think about the Sox far too often for reasonable adults that all of our combined knowledge wouldn't keep up with even the worst GM's.

[SoxnCycles]

Quote form MVP's link:

"Meanwhile, we can all rest assured that if the Blue Jays or Orioles do finally bite the bullet and try to help their own rotations, they'll be paying a heavy price if they want to make a significant improvement with Hill."

 

That way my initial reaction, too. That if this is what the market is going to be for mid-season pitching then we got a bargain, and anyone else who tries to get a pitcher now is going to pay dearly for it with players they don't want to give up. This only works in our favor.

 

Given the fact that DD probably knows a lot more about being a GM than I do

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say we got a bargain, but we probably got the best available pitcher and left the rest of the division with slim pickin's if they want to upgrade.

 

As painful as this deal was for the Sox, it's going to pinch the O's and Jays even more.