Referendum on John Farrell

[Bellhorn04]

i absolutely believe that pitching less often to a fewer number of hitters can have dramatic effects. it is unbelievable the number of relief pitchers that are being used daily now. A normally good solid arm has to look better with adequate rest. a slightly below average arm can often get a job done if the job isn't a big one. Such as being asked to face one or two batters as opposed to being expected to pitch multiple hitters. The people that we have relied on in the toughest situations all season are getting more rest because of the extra arms that we have out there. If you don't need Kimbrel to be ready nearly every day, maybe he can pitch to 4 hitters a little more often. A rested Koji might just look like like the guy we remember so very well. The trick is using what you have out there in that bullpen to your advantage.

 

Oh yes, the extra rest is a good thing, but what has really saved us is not just the quantity of arms but the consistent quality of the pitching we're suddenly seeing.

 

If you remember the nightmare of September 2011, in spite of the callups we didn't have anybody who could get anybody out...

[cp176]

Oh yes, the extra rest is a good thing, but what has really saved us is not just the quantity of arms but the consistent quality of the pitching we're suddenly seeing.

 

If you remember the nightmare of September 2011, in spite of the callups we didn't have anybody who could get anybody out...

 

Of course. The point I hope I am making is that some of the guys in our current bullpen look quite a bit better if they are expected to pitch less. That includes them all - good bad and ugly.

[Spudboy]

Fascinating. I maybe have precipitated some of the above by attacking station 13 for his opinion about last Thursday's game decisions instead of doing what what illinoisredsox did, which was to explain what he thought Farrell had done right.

 

I continue to believe that most managers make reasonable game decisions because to me it's not rocket science. Some are more aggressive with their bullpens, but that is usually because they have good ones. For most of this season, we did not. In September we not only picked up a bunch of arms because of the roster expansion everyone had, but brought back some good arms like Uehara, Kelly, and Ziegler, who have clearly made a difference. Now, amazingly, the bullpen is borderline fantastic, regardless of who goes out there. In the Yankees series we had 2 (3?) starters falter, but who got pulled early, and the lineup made up the difference while the bullpen held the Yankees back. I don't think any of that makes Farrell a genius, but only shows how effective any manager can be when the bullpen is shutting the opposition down.

 

Girardi, I hasten to add, benefitted earlier this season from a fantastic bullpen. Now he has a lousy one and it shows.

 

Spudboy quoted Whitey Herzog who said that the difference between a good manager and a bad one was a great bullpen, and right now that's looking awfully true.

 

Nope. Wasn't me.

[Bellhorn04]

It was me.

[Kimmi]

One thing that everyone knows but tends to forget sometimes is that a manager must manage the marathon differently than the sprint. We are now in the sprint. Farrell has the luxury of pulling a starter (or reliever) at the first sign of trouble, and he has done a very good job of doing that. As much as we may not like it, he cannot do that regularly when it's earlier in the season.

[Maxbialystock]

It was me.

 

That's twice you've had to correct me.

[a700hitter]

Regardless of the quality of his bullpen, the prick Girardi is a superior manager to Farrell. And no bullpen could ever make Farrell look like a genius.

[User Name]

No he isn't. Girardi is f***ing terrible.

[Bellhorn04]

Opinions on managers vary considerably from one fan to the next.

[Bellhorn04]

We had a game with the Yanks this year where their starter had to leave the game early and Girardi had to trot out a parade of relievers to cover the innings. We did nothing against the relievers, the Yanks won and folks on the game thread were lauding Girardi and talking about him schooling Farrell on how to manage.

 

After this weekend's series Girardi has been getting absolutely hammered by Yank fans and media for how he managed. Too funny.

[Slasher9]

Regardless of the quality of his bullpen, the prick Girardi is a superior manager to Farrell. And no bullpen could ever make Farrell look like a genius.

 

all losses are the fault of the manager. yankees just lost 4 in a row at the most crucial part of their season. yankees/girardi had 3+ run leads in 3 of the 4 games.

tell me more how girardi is superior.

[mvp 78]

all losses are the fault of the manager. yankees just lost 4 in a row at the most crucial part of their season. yankees/girardi had 3+ run leads in 3 of the 4 games.

tell me more how girardi is superior.

 

Yankees had a complete fire sale at the deadline. Against all reason, Girardi has helped to keep his team competitive.

 

Number of last place finishes:

Girardi - zero

Farrell - two

 

If Farrell wins another WS, I'll give him the edge of Girardi.

[S5Dewey]

all losses are the fault of the manager. yankees just lost 4 in a row at the most crucial part of their season. yankees/girardi had 3+ run leads in 3 of the 4 games.

tell me more how girardi is superior.

 

Or better yet, try to convince Yankee fans that Girardi is superior!

[SoxnCycles]

I think "Joe Binder" is my favorite nick name for Girardi.

[Bellhorn04]

I think "Joe Binder" is my favorite nick name for Girardi.

 

And even if the binder works, it's one of those things people will make fun of.

[mvp 78]

And even if the binder works, it's one of those things people will make fun of.

 

Except there were a lot of boners when talking about Curt Schilling's notebook. Little did we know that he was just working on new D&D characters.

[Bellhorn04]

Except there were a lot of boners when talking about Curt Schilling's notebook. Little did we know that he was just working on new D&D characters.

 

All about optics, isn't it?

 

Schilling looked smart with his notebook.

Girardi looks like a doofus with his binder.

[a700hitter]

all losses are the fault of the manager. yankees just lost 4 in a row at the most crucial part of their season. yankees/girardi had 3+ run leads in 3 of the 4 games.

tell me more how girardi is superior.

Our Roster is vastly superior at this point to what Girardi has in his dugout.

[SoxnCycles]

And even if the binder works, it's one of those things people will make fun of.

 

Exactly.

Because he goes by the "numbers" and not his "feel for the game".

[a700hitter]

Yankees had a complete fire sale at the deadline. Against all reason, Girardi has helped to keep his team competitive.

 

Number of last place finishes:

Girardi - zero

Farrell - two

 

If Farrell wins another WS, I'll give him the edge of Girardi.

If Farrell wins another Championship, he will become my second favorite Red Sox manager right behind Tito. My liking him will not make him any smarter. He will still only have 2 working neurons.

[Wade Boggs]

Or better yet, try to convince Yankee fans that Girardi is superior!

 

The same Yankee fans that booed Joe Torre. The same fans who questioned all of his moves as well.

 

Show me a good pitching staff and bullpen, I'll show you a great manager. With saying that I am not a fan of Farrell , the in game stuff. But if they win he stays. A pitching staff and being able to stay healthy covers up a lot of flaws from the manager. Any manager. If I owned a team and had to pick a manager to run it I pick Maddon. I know he hasn't won anything, but I still would pick him. IMO.. When your average they want you to be good. When your good they want you to be great. When your great they want you to be elite. It never ends.

[Wade Boggs]

If Farrell wins another Championship, he will become my second favorite Red Sox manager right behind Tito. My liking him will not make him any smarter. He will still only have 2 working neurons.

 

The same Phillies fans who slashed Tito's tires of his truck in the players parking lot, and threw size D batteries at him. lol. I know what your saying , just having fun . I liked Tito but he lost the clubhouse at the end.

[a700hitter]

The same Phillies fans who slashed Tito's tires of his truck in the players parking lot, and threw size D batteries at him. lol. I know what your saying , just having fun . I liked Tito but he lost the clubhouse at the end.

Tito was no genius either. He might only be 1 neuron ahead of Farrell, but he is my favorite Red Sox manager. I used to shake my head when post game he would say that the game started going fast. What!!???

[User Name]

The same Yankee fans that booed Joe Torre. The same fans who questioned all of his moves as well.

 

Show me a good pitching staff and bullpen, I'll show you a great manager. With saying that I am not a fan of Farrell , the in game stuff. But if they win he stays. A pitching staff and being able to stay healthy covers up a lot of flaws from the manager. Any manager. If I owned a team and had to pick a manager to run it I pick Maddon. I know he hasn't won anything, but I still would pick him. IMO.. When your average they want you to be good. When your good they want you to be great. When your great they want you to be elite. It never ends.

 

Hate Maddon, love Bochy.

[mvp 78]

All about optics, isn't it?

 

Schilling looked smart with his notebook.

Girardi looks like a doofus with his binder.

 

Would Girardi look better if he had a tablet instead? People have no issues with NFL coaches consulting tablets and notebooks in game. Not sure why it's horrible for Girardi. At least Girardi is being consistent in his approach rather than haphazard management we've seen from other managers.

[Bellhorn04]

Would Girardi look better if he had a tablet instead? People have no issues with NFL coaches consulting tablets and notebooks in game. Not sure why it's horrible for Girardi. At least Girardi is being consistent in his approach rather than haphazard management we've seen from other managers.

 

I don't really disagree. But when you make questionable moves like in Thursday's game, the binder becomes an object of derision.

 

Just human nature really.

[sk7326]

Tito was no genius either. He might only be 1 neuron ahead of Farrell, but he is my favorite Red Sox manager. I used to shake my head when post game he would say that the game started going fast. What!!???

 

What he has done with Andrew Miller has been remarkable - not so much as a usage pattern itself, but violating league groupthink to achieve the best results.

[sk7326]

One thing that everyone knows but tends to forget sometimes is that a manager must manage the marathon differently than the sprint. We are now in the sprint. Farrell has the luxury of pulling a starter (or reliever) at the first sign of trouble, and he has done a very good job of doing that. As much as we may not like it, he cannot do that regularly when it's earlier in the season.

 

He was very aggressive doing this in 2013 also - in the postseason. He has also taken advantage of the slack Porcello and Price have given him.

[sk7326]

Hate Maddon, love Bochy.

 

I like Maddon - there is no super genius about managing per se. But if I were to hire a manager, I'd want somebody who is competent, smart - and can execute my priorities for the organization, and be flexible. Scioscia and Showalter would be problematic in that respect - Scioscia in particular - if an owner is going to let managers veto player personnel priorities, that would be very hard to deal with. This is not football or basketball where the org is small enough for that to be possible.

 

My choice would clearly be Francona - nice guy, media savvy - able to manage coaches and turn analytic results and information into action. And he understands player personnel priorities.

[User Name]

Bruce Bochy (BB) is the Bill Belichick (BB) of baseball.