A Realistic View at 2016

[oldtimer]

The biggest issue I have with Farrell is he seems to have a tough time assigning roles in the pen.

 

That's expected when whenever you try someone new, they suck or get hurt. You try to ride the "hot hand" but with the Sox, we haven't really had many.

 

The only things I might have tried differently are to use Ross more and giving Hembree a longer look. Maybe bring Kelly up before now.

 

The way the season has gone,especially recently, of our 7 relief pitchers only Kimbrel and Ross have been dependable. Tazawa looks like a pitcher with a tired arm. Hard to understand with a 1 and 2 count he came down the center of the plate with an anemic fastball. You think an experience guy wouldn't have done that. Barnes has been terrible of late. Not much more to say. Abad has the stuff but nibbles at the corners and even seems fearful of being in the strike zone. Buchholz has been at least okay but not particularly dependable. Ziegler has been decent on some days but others were not so good.

 

Of the likely additions this year Kelly at least offers decent potential. I understand they will bring up another lefty but know nothing of him. The BP is our weak spot going forward and into next season as well.

 

I would think keeping Kimbrel and Ross is a given next year and possibly Kelly if he shows marked improvement from earlier this year. With Ziegler a FA and turning 38 should we try to resign him? Uehara is approaching 42 and probably not up to the rigors of another season. Abad has good stuff if he could be brought out of the funk. I question trying to do something with Tazawa, Barnes and Buccholz. Of our need for 7 RP's next year I only count 4 with a strong chance of helping us. Kimrel, Ross, Abad and Kelly. That means DD needs to add a few from internal sources or through trades. Internally we have Smith, Workman and Hembree who may fill some of our void. Lots to think about in the off season.

[moonslav59]

I would think keeping Kimbrel and Ross is a given next year and possibly Kelly if he shows marked improvement from earlier this year. With Ziegler a FA and turning 38 should we try to resign him? Uehara is approaching 42 and probably not up to the rigors of another season. Abad has good stuff if he could be brought out of the funk. I question trying to do something with Tazawa, Barnes and Buccholz. Of our need for 7 RP's next year I only count 4 with a strong chance of helping us. Kimrel, Ross, Abad and Kelly. That means DD needs to add a few from internal sources or through trades. Internally we have Smith, Workman and Hembree who may fill some of our void. Lots to think about in the off season.

 

Nothing against all these guys, but I really have no strong desire to bring back Uehara, Ziegler, Tazawa or Buchholz.

 

I think we can do better, go younger and more dependable (healthier history).

[Kimmi]

You a teacher?

 

Yes I am. High school math.

[Kimmi]

I would think keeping Kimbrel and Ross is a given next year and possibly Kelly if he shows marked improvement from earlier this year. With Ziegler a FA and turning 38 should we try to resign him? Uehara is approaching 42 and probably not up to the rigors of another season. Abad has good stuff if he could be brought out of the funk. I question trying to do something with Tazawa, Barnes and Buccholz. Of our need for 7 RP's next year I only count 4 with a strong chance of helping us. Kimrel, Ross, Abad and Kelly. That means DD needs to add a few from internal sources or through trades. Internally we have Smith, Workman and Hembree who may fill some of our void. Lots to think about in the off season.

 

Nothing against all these guys, but I really have no strong desire to bring back Uehara, Ziegler, Tazawa or Buchholz.

 

I think we can do better, go younger and more dependable (healthier history).

 

I don't think the Sox should spend a lot of money on relievers. We have our premium closer. Smith will hopefully be back next year and can be our 8th inning guy. IMO, the process of accumulating as many inexpensive arms as they reasonably can and hope that a few of them stick is the way to go.

[moonslav59]

I don't think the Sox should spend a lot of money on relievers. We have our premium closer. Smith will hopefully be back next year and can be our 8th inning guy. IMO, the process of accumulating as many inexpensive arms as they reasonably can and hope that a few of them stick is the way to go.

 

At least RP'ers don't get $20M x 6. I get your point, though, RP'ers are so fickle, maybe inexpensive mediocre quantity is a better bet than expensive high quality 2-3 RP'ers.

[moonslav59]

Yes I am. High school math.

 

I teach middle school ESL as a hobby.

[Spudboy]

I don't think the Sox should spend a lot of money on relievers. We have our premium closer. Smith will hopefully be back next year and can be our 8th inning guy. IMO, the process of accumulating as many inexpensive arms as they reasonably can and hope that a few of them stick is the way to go.

 

A tried and proven method.

[moonslav59]

Red Sox Designate William Cuevas

 

By Jeff Todd | September 2, 2016 at 3:13pm CDT

 

The Red Sox have designated righty William Cuevas for assignment, per a club announcement. His 40-man spot was needed as the club purchased the contracts of lefty Robby Scott and top infield prospect Yoan Moncada.

 

Cuevas, 25, received a brief major league promotion earlier this year, allowing six walks in the five frames he pitched. He has spent the bulk of the year at Triple-A, where he carries a 4.19 ERA over 131 frames. Trouble is, Cuevas wasn’t able to maintain the strikeout rate he had shown in prior years, as he K’ed just 5.8 batters per nine in that span.

 

The 27-year-old Scott gets his first major league nod after turning in 78 innings of 2.54 ERA pitching with 8.4 K/9 and 1.6 BB/9 at the Triple-A level. He’ll be joined by Moncada, who is considered by some to be the top prospect in the game. (Read more on Moncada’s promotion here.)

[Spudboy]

Yawn.

[moonslav59]

Yawn.

 

I can't believe they never really gave this kid a shot!

 

Just kidding.

[moonslav59]

Maybe Moncada's arrival has lit a fire under Shaw.

[Navafan29]

Maybe Moncada's arrival has lit a fire under Shaw.

 

Hmm Shaw does amazing when competing for a spot with Sandoval. Then Shaw becomes just an average player for 3 months after getting the 3B spot (and not having much competition). Then Shaw lights up again when competing for his spot with Moncada.

[oldtimer]

Hmm Shaw does amazing when competing for a spot with Sandoval. Then Shaw becomes just an average player for 3 months after getting the 3B spot (and not having much competition). Then Shaw lights up again when competing for his spot with Moncada.

 

He is young, is talented defensively, can play two positions and has power. Could it be the pitching last night was softer than what we have seen of late? I think Shaw has room for further development and should be seriously considered to stay on the 25 man roster for next season, with 1st base in mind. Maybe he winds up as one of our utility infielders or maybe Holt does. Plenty of time to decide on his status.

[Emp9]

I don't think the Sox should spend a lot of money on relievers. We have our premium closer. Smith will hopefully be back next year and can be our 8th inning guy. IMO, the process of accumulating as many inexpensive arms as they reasonably can and hope that a few of them stick is the way to go.

 

Problem is, there's hardly anything else to go get this off-season besides relievers. The flip side is that I'd rather them spend some $ on relief than keep shelling out our fine prospects for more late inning help.

[Emp9]

'16-'17 FA List (for quick reference) via MLBTR:

 

Right-Handed Relievers (Italics denote active closers)

 

Matt Albers (34) — $3MM club option with a $250K buyout

Matt Belisle (37)

Joaquin Benoit (39)

Joe Blanton (36)

Blaine Boyer (35)

Santiago Casilla (36)

Joba Chamberlain (31)

Jesse Chavez (33)

Josh Collmenter (31) — $2.25MM mutual option with a $150K buyout

Wade Davis (31) — $10MM club option with a $2.5MM buyout

Scott Feldman (34)

Neftali Feliz (29)

Jason Grilli (40) — $3MM club option with a $250K buyout

David Hernandez (32)

Luke Hochevar (33) — $7MM mutual option with a $500K buyout

Daniel Hudson (30)

Tommy Hunter (30)

Edwin Jackson (33)

Kenley Jansen (29)

Kevin Jepsen (32)

Mark Melancon (32)

Pat Neshek (36) — $6.5MM club option with a $500K buyout

Seung-hwan Oh (34) — club option

Ross Ohlendorf (34)

Jonathan Papelbon (36)

Joel Peralta (41)

Yusmeiro Petit (32) — $3MM club/vesting option with a $500K buyout (vests with 80 IP)

Fernando Rodney (40) — floating $2MM+ club option with a $400K buyout

Sergio Romo (34)

Fernando Salas (32)

Joe Smith (33)

Drew Storen (29)

Junichi Tazawa (31)

Carlos Torres (34)

Koji Uehara (42)

Ryan Vogelsong (39)

Jordan Walden (29) — $5.25MM club option with a $250K buyout

Ryan Webb (31)

Brad Ziegler (37)

 

Left-Handed Relievers (Italics denote active closers)

 

Craig Breslow (36)

Brett Cecil (30)

Aroldis Chapman (29)

Mike Dunn (32)

Boone Logan (32)

Javier Lopez (39)

Cory Luebke (32)

Eric O’Flaherty (32)

Marc Rzepczynski (31)

Matt Thornton (40)

Travis Wood (30)

[Emp9]

I would think keeping Kimbrel and Ross is a given next year and possibly Kelly if he shows marked improvement from earlier this year. With Ziegler a FA and turning 38 should we try to resign him? Uehara is approaching 42 and probably not up to the rigors of another season. Abad has good stuff if he could be brought out of the funk. I question trying to do something with Tazawa, Barnes and Buccholz. Of our need for 7 RP's next year I only count 4 with a strong chance of helping us. Kimrel, Ross, Abad and Kelly. That means DD needs to add a few from internal sources or through trades. Internally we have Smith, Workman and Hembree who may fill some of our void. Lots to think about in the off season.

 

Nothing against all these guys, but I really have no strong desire to bring back Uehara, Ziegler, Tazawa or Buchholz.

 

I think we can do better, go younger and more dependable (healthier history).

 

I still like what Ziegler brings to the team. He's a different look than the rest & differs from the all or nothing high velocity-high stike-out guys everyone likes. We'll be hard pressed to find a better GB% from a RPer. I still like him for a late 6 inning & 7th inning guy. But it wld come down to price $, i suppose.

[oldtimer]

'16-'17 FA List (for quick reference) via MLBTR:

 

Right-Handed Relievers (Italics denote active closers)

 

Matt Albers (34) — $3MM club option with a $250K buyout

Matt Belisle (37)

Joaquin Benoit (39)

Joe Blanton (36)

Blaine Boyer (35)

Santiago Casilla (36)

Joba Chamberlain (31)

Jesse Chavez (33)

Josh Collmenter (31) — $2.25MM mutual option with a $150K buyout

Wade Davis (31) — $10MM club option with a $2.5MM buyout

Scott Feldman (34)

Neftali Feliz (29)

Jason Grilli (40) — $3MM club option with a $250K buyout

David Hernandez (32)

Luke Hochevar (33) — $7MM mutual option with a $500K buyout

Daniel Hudson (30)

Tommy Hunter (30)

Edwin Jackson (33)

Kenley Jansen (29)

Kevin Jepsen (32)

Mark Melancon (32)

Pat Neshek (36) — $6.5MM club option with a $500K buyout

Seung-hwan Oh (34) — club option

Ross Ohlendorf (34)

Jonathan Papelbon (36)

Joel Peralta (41)

Yusmeiro Petit (32) — $3MM club/vesting option with a $500K buyout (vests with 80 IP)

Fernando Rodney (40) — floating $2MM+ club option with a $400K buyout

Sergio Romo (34)

Fernando Salas (32)

Joe Smith (33)

Drew Storen (29)

Junichi Tazawa (31)

Carlos Torres (34)

Koji Uehara (42)

Ryan Vogelsong (39)

Jordan Walden (29) — $5.25MM club option with a $250K buyout

Ryan Webb (31)

Brad Ziegler (37)

 

Left-Handed Relievers (Italics denote active closers)

 

Craig Breslow (36)

Brett Cecil (30)

Aroldis Chapman (29)

Mike Dunn (32)

Boone Logan (32)

Javier Lopez (39)

Cory Luebke (32)

Eric O’Flaherty (32)

Marc Rzepczynski (31)

Matt Thornton (40)

Travis Wood (30)

 

Nice job of compiling prospects for next year. Since left hand relief is in short supply, all the more reason for staying with Ross (a given) and Abad (in need of turning around but has the stuff)

[Kimmi]

At least RP'ers don't get $20M x 6. I get your point, though, RP'ers are so fickle, maybe inexpensive mediocre quantity is a better bet than expensive high quality 2-3 RP'ers.

 

Large contracts to relief pitchers almost never work out. IMO, even less so than large contracts to starting pitchers or position players. It seems like a large number of the best closers seemingly come out of nowhere.

[Kimmi]

I teach middle school ESL as a hobby.

 

Very nice. It's cool that you can do it as a hobby.

[Bellhorn04]

Large contracts to relief pitchers almost never work out. IMO, even less so than large contracts to starting pitchers or position players. It seems like a large number of the best closers seemingly come out of nowhere.

 

Andrew Miller is proving to be an exception thus far. The guy has been phenomenal for the Yankees and now the Guardians.

[Kimmi]

Problem is, there's hardly anything else to go get this off-season besides relievers. The flip side is that I'd rather them spend some $ on relief than keep shelling out our fine prospects for more late inning help.

 

I agree. Given the choice between overpaying in terms of money or overpaying in terms of prospects, I'd go with the former. My point is that I don't think they should overpay either way for relief help, especially with our set up (hopefully) and closer roles already set. IMO, having a good bullpen is definitely a priority for next season, but that can be accomplished without paying an arm and a leg.

[Kimmi]

Andrew Miller is proving to be an exception thus far. The guy has been phenomenal for the Yankees and now the Guardians.

 

Miller has indeed been an exception to the rule, and there have been others.

[Bellhorn04]

Somehow an approach of 'let's just throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and see what happens' isn't very reassuring.

 

Right now our 2017 bullpen has Kimbrel, Smith hopefully, Ross, Kelly hopefully, Barnes and God knows what else.

[Kimmi]

Somehow an approach of 'let's just throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and see what happens' isn't very reassuring.

 

Right now our 2017 bullpen has Kimbrel, Smith hopefully, Ross, Kelly hopefully, Barnes and God knows what else.

 

It might not sound very reassuring, but as Spud pointed out, it is a tried and true method for building a good pen.

[Bellhorn04]

It might not sound very reassuring, but as Spud pointed out, it is a tried and true method for building a good pen.

 

It's probably the right method. After all you can't spend big money everywhere.

 

It doesn't always work of course.

[Spudboy]

I think we all can agree that RP are hit or miss a lot of the time. By definition, RP are lesser talents than SP otherwise they would be SP where they can make tons more money.

 

So this is why the throw a ton of s*** at the wall and see what sticks method can work. It's a numbers game.

 

Sometimes you get lucky and sometime you sign duds. I don't remember how Badenhop was acquired. He seems to be a decent example of what you can get. He pitched well and the Sox for some reason said bye-bye.

 

Identifying guys like Badenhop is key to building a good staff. But there seems to be a randomness to it.

 

I good pen can cover a lot of ills on a team.

[a700hitter]

Andrew Miller is proving to be an exception thus far. The guy has been phenomenal for the Yankees and now the Guardians.

We may have been a little premature with all the oohing and ahhing about getting ERod for Miller.

[moonslav59]

Hmm Shaw does amazing when competing for a spot with Sandoval. Then Shaw becomes just an average player for 3 months after getting the 3B spot (and not having much competition). Then Shaw lights up again when competing for his spot with Moncada.

 

Wonder why the Hill acquisition didn't fire him up.

[moonslav59]

He is young, is talented defensively, can play two positions and has power. Could it be the pitching last night was softer than what we have seen of late? I think Shaw has room for further development and should be seriously considered to stay on the 25 man roster for next season, with 1st base in mind. Maybe he winds up as one of our utility infielders or maybe Holt does. Plenty of time to decide on his status.

 

His "talent defensively" is limited to 1B only though.

[moonslav59]

I still like what Ziegler brings to the team. He's a different look than the rest & differs from the all or nothing high velocity-high stike-out guys everyone likes. We'll be hard pressed to find a better GB% from a RPer. I still like him for a late 6 inning & 7th inning guy. But it wld come down to price $, i suppose.

 

He's the only one I'd kick the tires on, but my guess is the money will be too high for someone his age, and I've heard he prefers playing out west, but winning a ring might change that preference quickly.