A Realistic View at 2016

[Behindenemylines]

Will not come close to making playoffs unless the SP situation is corrected. Besides putting the team in the hole early, it is crushing the bullpen. We need the starters to go deeper into the game. Price has to be Price. I don't think you can ask more of Porcello and Wright.

[moonslav59]

I just hope it's not an overpay for a 2 month rental.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

I just hope it's not an overpay for a 2 month rental.

 

If you only had the prospects that were traded for Kimbrel!!

[moonslav59]

If you only had the prospects that were traded for Kimbrel!!

 

Kimbrel's been a real savior, right?

32 IP for about $7M (half his salary)and just about all of our best mid-level prospects.

2 blown saves and 3 losses in 32 appearances is not bad, but it's not great either.

 

One thing Billy Beane was right about was the over-valuing of closers in MLB.

[Kimmi]

I just hope it's not an overpay for a 2 month rental.

 

That would be the worst. If Dombrowski is going to gut the farm, at least get us a young pitcher that we will have under control for several years.

[moonslav59]

That would be the worst. If Dombrowski is going to gut the farm, at least get us a young pitcher that we will have under control for several years.

 

A rental may not "gut the farm", but I'm not even for giving mid levels for a rental.

[a700hitter]

A rental may not "gut the farm", but I'm not even for giving mid levels for a rental.

You are a hoarder. Hoarders die amongst the garbage they have accumulated and their bodies don't get found until they are in a very advanced stage of very stinky decomposition. I'll make the trade.

[moonslav59]

You are a hoarder. Hoarders die amongst the garbage they have accumulated and their bodies don't get found until they are in a very advanced stage of very stinky decomposition. I'll make the trade.

 

No, I've suggested countless trades involving our prospects.

 

I've said over and over, I'd float Swihart, Devers, Holt, Travis and Kopech for a fine, quality, young, cost & team controlled SP'er. I just haven't found the right team and pitcher that matches up...yet.

 

I wanna keep Moncada, Benintendi & Espinoza, but if we have to part with one of the latter two, I'd strongly consider it...for the right guy.

[Bellhorn04]

Dombrowski has a rep as a 'win now' guy, but does he have any sort of history of 'gutting the farm for a rental'? None that I'm aware of.

[mvp 78]

His reputation is using prospects as trading chips before their value expires.

[Kimmi]

His reputation is using prospects as trading chips before their value expires.

 

His reputation is gutting the farm in an effort to win now. To be fair, the 'win now' directive has been sent down by ownership, both in Detroit and here.

[mvp 78]

His reputation is gutting the farm in an effort to win now. To be fair, the 'win now' directive has been sent down by ownership, both in Detroit and here.

 

His reputation is not giving up prospects that bite him in the butt later on.

[mvp 78]

Also, if there's a win now directive, he did a s***** job of constructing the pitching staff. Kelly andBuchholz shouldn't have been relied on to be in the rotation. I said it over and over again this offseason and I was shown to be right in my assessment.

[Kimmi]

His reputation is not giving up prospects that bite him in the butt later on.

 

I don't follow the Tigers organization that closely, but my understanding is that their farm system is in terrible shape.

[Kimmi]

Also, if there's a win now directive, he did a s***** job of constructing the pitching staff. Kelly andBuchholz shouldn't have been relied on to be in the rotation. I said it over and over again this offseason and I was shown to be right in my assessment.

 

Yes, more vindication. You were absolutely right.

 

Here's the thing, though. After blowing past the luxury tax limit with the signing of Price and giving up a pretty good package of prospects for Kimbrel, the idea of further overpaying for more pitching, either in money or in prospects, was not realistic. Seriously, you would think that between all of the options that we had to fill those other rotation spots, someone would step up.

 

IMO, it made far more sense to wait until midseason to reassess what our needs were. It's hard to fathom that all of our pitching options, besides Wright, have failed so miserably. Even Price, who is about as sure a thing as you can get, has not lived up to his billing.

 

In short, entering the season, I had no problem with the pitching staff that Dombrowski assembled. I was wrong.

 

Fun stat: O'Sullivan's win last night was the first win from the 4/5 slot since May 31.

[Emp9]

Also, if there's a win now directive, he did a s***** job of constructing the pitching staff. Kelly andBuchholz shouldn't have been relied on to be in the rotation. I said it over and over again this offseason and I was shown to be right in my assessment.

 

This is where we agree on Buch, actually. I wanted to pick up his option, but count him as depth, not rely on him to carry the pitching staff. I've been pining for Kelly to the BP for some time now. I'm very curious to see how he does in a relief role. I also think this move reaks of a trade is about to happen.

[a700hitter]

 

Fun stat: O'Sullivan's win last night was the first win from the 4/5 slot since May 31.

 

 

 

Fun Stat?

[Kimmi]

Fun Stat?

 

All stats are fun.

[Kimmi]

IMO, probably the biggest blow to the rotation was ERod, not Buchholz or Kelly. I'm not saying that Buchholz or Kelly have been better than ERod has been, but I think the FO had higher expectations, learning curve notwithstanding, from ERod.

 

If ERod had not been injured and had performed similar to what he did last year, this rotation looks a lot different. The dependence on Buchholz/Kelly to fill one rotation spot doesn't look so bad.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

His reputation is gutting the farm in an effort to win now. To be fair, the 'win now' directive has been sent down by ownership, both in Detroit and here.

 

Actually that's an unfair reputation.

 

He was instrumental in building some pretty decent farm systems with the Expos and Marlins.

[Kimmi]

Actually that's an unfair reputation.

 

He was instrumental in building some pretty decent farm systems with the Expos and Marlins.

 

Fair enough.

[moonslav59]

IMO, probably the biggest blow to the rotation was ERod, not Buchholz or Kelly. I'm not saying that Buchholz or Kelly have been better than ERod has been, but I think the FO had higher expectations, learning curve notwithstanding, from ERod.

 

If ERod had not been injured and had performed similar to what he did last year, this rotation looks a lot different. The dependence on Buchholz/Kelly to fill one rotation spot doesn't look so bad.

 

Kelly and Buch were both supposed to be part of the rotation. Wright was the 6th starter who basically took ERod's slot.

 

In all fairness to DD, the last two slots were supposed to be by Buch & Kelly along with a slew of also-rans/ projects, prospects and promising guys: Wright, Elias, Owens, Johnson.

 

Injuries are part of the game, and we should have counted on one of Buch or Kelly struggling PLUS another SP'er getting hurt or injured (or Both Buch & Kelly not producing). That's where we messed up, IMO. We relied on too much quantity and not enough quality from the 4 slot to the 6 slot. We were hoping we'd find 2-3 out of 6 that would shine. We ended up needing 3, but found just one (Wright).

[Spudboy]

His reputation is not giving up prospects that bite him in the butt later on.

 

Bingo. And that is wise use of assets.

[Spudboy]

Also, if there's a win now directive, he did a s***** job of constructing the pitching staff. Kelly andBuchholz shouldn't have been relied on to be in the rotation. I said it over and over again this offseason and I was shown to be right in my assessment.

 

You were not alone, either.

[moonslav59]

His reputation is not giving up prospects that bite him in the butt later on.

 

Well, the Tigers were pretty awful for his first 3-4 years with the Tigers.

 

His definitive trade was giving up Cameron Maybin, Badenhop, Andrew Miller and others for Miggy and Willis. Surely, none of those guys ever came back to bite him in the ass. The next "biggie" was Prince Fielder for Kinsler.

 

Other trades I remember were Jair Jurrjens for Edgar Renteria, Ivan Rodriguez for Farnsworth, Edwin Jackson for Max Scherzer, Granderson for Austin Jackson & Phil Coke, Jacob Turner, Brian Flynn & Rob Brantly for Anibal Sanchez & Omaar Infante,

Doug Fister for Robbie Ray, Ian Krol and Lonbardozzi, Porcello for Cespedes and then Cespedes for Fulmer & Cessa.

 

Not a bad record at all on trades.

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

His reputation is not giving up prospects that bite him in the butt later on.

 

Well, the Tigers were pretty awful for his first 3-4 years with the Tigers.

 

His definitive trade was giving up Cameron Maybin, Badenhop, Andrew Miller and others for Miggy and Willis. Surely, none of those guys ever came back to bite him in the ass. The next "biggie" was Prince Fielder for Kinsler.

 

Other trades I remember were Jair Jurrjens for Edgar Renteria, Ivan Rodriguez for Farnsworth, Edwin Jackson for Max Scherzer, Granderson for Austin Jackson & Phil Coke, Jacob Turner, Brian Flynn & Rob Brantly for Anibal Sanchez & Omaar Infante,

Doug Fister for Robbie Ray, Ian Krol and Lonbardozzi, Porcello for Cespedes and then Cespedes for Fulmer & Cessa.

 

Not a bad record at all on trades.

 

 

What he gave up in the trade for Price was also quite reasonable.

[moonslav59]

What he gave up in the trade for Price was also quite reasonable.

 

The jury may still be out a little on that trade as Austin Jackson & Drew Smyly had years of control left on their new teams (Jackson 2.3 years/ Smyly 4.3 years). Willy Adames was also ranked in the top 50 by Baseball America and currently has an .810 OPS in AA.

[Bellhorn04]

The jury may still be out a little on that trade as Austin Jackson & Drew Smyly had years of control left on their new teams (Jackson 2.3 years/ Smyly 4.3 years). Willy Adames was also ranked in the top 50 by Baseball America and currently has an .810 OPS in AA.

 

Austin Jackson is a virtual washout since being traded by the Tigers.

[moonslav59]

Austin Jackson is a virtual washout since being traded by the Tigers.

 

True, and his team control ends this year, but Smyly and Adames are still "alive".

 

I'm not saying it was a bad trade, it looks very good right now.

[moonslav59]

MLBTR has an interesting piece on some possible "under the radar" trade candidates, and I'm wondering if we may be able to strike gold on a rental without parting with anything too valuable. Here's a name that caught my eye:

 

Jorge De La Rosa, SP, Rockies — The veteran Colorado lefty was off to an abysmal start and is owed a hefty $12.5MM before hitting the open market. But he has been quite effective since returning to the rotation in mid June: over his last five outings, including a four-inning relief appearance, De La Rosa has allowed just six earned runs on 19 hits over 28 frames. He has surrendered 13 free passes against only 19 punch-outs, but De La Rosa has drawn plenty of trade interest in the past and the Rox may be ready to move on. Teams in need of rotation depth could take a look.

 

The money may scare many teams away, but he might be a nice get.