2016 Prospects Thread

[moonslav59]

Here's a read on Beni's call-up...

 

http://news.soxprospects.com/2016/08/transaction-analysis-breaking-down_2.html

 

[moonslav59]

MLB.com just released its midseason farm rankings that take into account deadline trades:

 

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/193317666/midseason-ranking-of-mlbs-top-10-farm-systems/

 

1) MIL

2) NYY

3) HOU

4) PIT

5) LAD

6) WSH

7) BOS

8) PHI

9) ATL

10) COL

 

Here's their Sox wrap-up:

 

The Red Sox have the thinnest system on this list, in part because president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski used it liberally to make trades for Craig Kimbrel and Drew Pomeranz. But Boston still has the most dynamic duo of prospects in second baseman Yoan Moncada (No. 2) and outfielder Andrew Benintendi (No. 7), and backs them up with high-ceiling talents in third baseman Rafael Devers (No. 23), left-hander Jason Groome (No. 40) and 105-mph righty Michael Kopech (No. 81).

 

 

 

[Spudboy]

soxprospects.com still has Johnson ranked 7th (behind Sam TRavis and ahead of Luis Basabe, so they view him as a legitimate prospect.

 

Groome is ranked 4th

CJ Chatham is 12th

Bobby Dalbec is 21st

Mike Shawaryn 27th

 

 

 

To me, I want the kid healthy and back on track to the big leagues. Ranking means s*** when we need organic arms.

Big jumpers in their most recent revision of their rankings are:

Ockimey 37>9

R Raudes 33>16

Shepherd 30>20

J Cosart 44>29

Washington 55>31

Matheny 57>32

J Haley NR>35

Romanski 59>43

 

Big declines:

Marrero 9>22

Lakins 10>14

A Rei 25>38

Jerez 17>39

Acosta 18>40

Stanki 26>41

Glorius 27>42

N Ramirez 28>46

 

 

Does it really matter what Johnson is ranked? Maybe to those that hold hope of trading him for Sale or another piece of what is called in Motorsports "Inubtainum".

 

 

To me, I want the kid healthy and back on track to the big leagues. Ranking means s*** when we need organic arms.

[moonslav59]

Does it really matter what Johnson is ranked? Maybe to those that hold hope of trading him for Sale or another piece of what is called in Motorsports "Inubtainum".

 

 

To me, I want the kid healthy and back on track to the big leagues. Ranking means s*** when we need organic arms.

 

Certainly being #6 or #10 makes little difference in the Sox list as 5 are clearly separated from the others.

 

Nobody views him as a possible #1 or #2 type pitcher. My guess is being a good #3 slot SP'er is his highest upside potential, but pitchers surprise us all the time- just not ours that often (to the good).

 

Unless we trade a SP'er, I do not see Johnson unseating anyone in our current rotation, so maybe his best value will be as starter depth and pen help.

[Spudboy]

Certainly being #6 or #10 makes little difference in the Sox list as 5 are clearly separated from the others.

 

Nobody views him as a possible #1 or #2 type pitcher. My guess is being a good #3 slot SP'er is his highest upside potential, but pitchers surprise us all the time- just not ours that often (to the good).

 

Unless we trade a SP'er, I do not see Johnson unseating anyone in our current rotation, so maybe his best value will be as starter depth and pen help.

 

I guess I value rotation depth more than you.

[moonslav59]

I guess I value rotation depth more than you.

 

I never said I didn't value SP'er depth. I just said I see Johnson as probably nothing more than starter depth.

 

When I advocate trading for a top of rotation SP'er, I rarely include a current starter in our rotation, so in a sense, I am advocating improving the top of our rotation and our 6th, 7th and 8th starters by attrition.

[Hugh2]

Does it really matter what Johnson is ranked? Maybe to those that hold hope of trading him for Sale or another piece of what is called in Motorsports "Inubtainum".

 

 

To me, I want the kid healthy and back on track to the big leagues. Ranking means s*** when we need organic arms.

 

Rankings aren't worthless, but I get what you're saying. A guy might not have the sexiest prospect ranking because he doesn't have the higest potential but if Johnson becomes a really good back of the rotation starter who gives you innings then he's a very valuable MLB pitcher who was worth every penny he got and easily worth the draft slot.

 

Someone stepping up in the 5th slot could be the difference between playing baseball in October this year on this team.

[moonslav59]

Rankings aren't worthless, but I get what you're saying. A guy might not have the sexiest prospect ranking because he doesn't have the higest potential but if Johnson becomes a really good back of the rotation starter who gives you innings then he's a very valuable MLB pitcher who was worth every penny he got and easily worth the draft slot.

 

Someone stepping up in the 5th slot could be the difference between playing baseball in October this year on this team.

 

...and Steven Wright has been the example that makes your point.

 

I'm hoping ERod's recent success is a sign we don't need another starter this year, but then there's the Pomeranz question.

[cp176]

Does it really matter what Johnson is ranked? Maybe to those that hold hope of trading him for Sale or another piece of what is called in Motorsports "Inubtainum".

 

 

To me, I want the kid healthy and back on track to the big leagues. Ranking means s*** when we need organic arms.

 

Brian johnson had another nice start in Pawtucket. Pulling for this guy. I really would like to see what he is capable of when healthy. Good for him that he is back in action.

[moonslav59]

Brian johnson had another nice start in Pawtucket. Pulling for this guy. I really would like to see what he is capable of when healthy. Good for him that he is back in action.

 

Are you thinking he'd be helping us this year?

 

I'm not discounting the idea, but just wondering.

[Spudboy]

I am not counting on Johnson being up at any point this year. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

I see him "repeating" AAA and let's see what we have then. He has a lot of make-up work to do to even get back to where he was let alone contribute in Boston.

 

Maybe next year.

[moonslav59]

I am not counting on Johnson being up at any point this year. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

I see him "repeating" AAA and let's see what we have then. He has a lot of make-up work to do to even get back to where he was let alone contribute in Boston.

 

Maybe next year.

 

Sounds about right.

[cp176]

Are you thinking he'd be helping us this year?

 

I'm not discounting the idea, but just wondering.

 

 

I don't really know where I see him as the rest of the year unfolds. He is the one pitcher close enough to the big league roster that still has some intrigue for me. Before his latest injury/anxiety issues, I thought that he might have been that mid rotation guy that Pomeranz is supposed to be. If he gets a couple more strong starts, I wouldn't be surprised to see him get another crack at a job in Boston of the situation presents itself. I don't like him spending an extended period of time in the minors if he looks and feels ready. I kind of believe in the "wasted bullet" theory. My opinion is that at one time he would have been a better option than Owens. He also could be packaged and traded during the off season. I think that it is more than likely that we see more than one good sized deal being made.

[moonslav59]

I don't really know where I see him as the rest of the year unfolds. He is the one pitcher close enough to the big league roster that still has some intrigue for me. Before his latest injury/anxiety issues, I thought that he might have been that mid rotation guy that Pomeranz is supposed to be. If he gets a couple more strong starts, I wouldn't be surprised to see him get another crack at a job in Boston of the situation presents itself. I don't like him spending an extended period of time in the minors if he looks and feels ready. I kind of believe in the "wasted bullet" theory. My opinion is that at one time he would have been a better option than Owens. He also could be packaged and traded during the off season. I think that it is more than likely that we see more than one good sized deal being made.

 

Agreed. I had suggested trading away some "quantity" of our mediocre pitchers/prospects along with everyday player/ prospects to acquire a more reliable SP'er.

 

I realize the theory is easier than reality.

[cp176]

Agreed. I had suggested trading away some "quantity" of our mediocre pitchers/prospects along with everyday player/ prospects to acquire a more reliable SP'er.

 

I realize the theory is easier than reality.

 

i think that this scenario will happen. I don't think that anybody is going to fleece us though.

[moonslav59]

i think that this scenario will happen. I don't think that anybody is going to fleece us though.

 

The problem now is we are only left with a 4 top prospects, so if we do make the big blockbuster for an ace, we'll have essentially stripped almost all of our top prospects from the farm since DD took over.

 

My guess is it will take Beni or Moncada plus Devers, and it might take Swihart or ERod/Kopech as well.

 

Let's say we trade Beni, Devers and Kopech for Sale, that would mean we'd have Moncada and recent graduate Swihart as the only top prospects left (plus Groome).

 

Gone would be Beni, Espi, Margot, Devers, Kopech and Guerra plus Allen and Basabe.

 

[mvp 78]

@seadogsradio Yoan Moncada starting at third base tonight. First of his career.

 

!!!!!!!!!!!!

[moonslav59]

@seadogsradio Yoan Moncada starting at third base tonight. First of his career.

 

!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I suggested they soon start giving him reps at 3B a while ago, because I felt his bat was getting real close to ML ready. . I caught some flack. The Sox started giving him reps a few weeks later.

 

I thought it might take more time practicing 3B than actually starting a game there, but I have recently learned he played some 3B as a youngster in Cuba. I'm not sure how much that will help, and I hope they gave him enough time in practice not to embarrass himself.

 

I hope he does well and becomes competent defensively at 3B quickly. With Papi hurting, HanRam struggling and Shaw looking like he may end up a platoon candidate, we may need Moncada in September for more than just a PR'er/PH'er.

[User Name]

The "flack" you actually caught was people saying this is a decision the Sox needed to make when they felt he was ready, not just because he was blocked by Pedroia at 2B, and that is still the case. These kids (especially the ones who come from Cuba) have a lot of catching up to do, and orgs tend to put as little on their plates as possible. The problem here is that Moncada is a goddamn freak of nature who has obliterated every personal and professional challenge the Sox have thrown at him. He's a generational-talent type

[cp176]

The "flack" you actually caught was people saying this is a decision the Sox needed to make when they felt he was ready, not just because he was blocked by Pedroia at 2B, and that is still the case. These kids (especially the ones who come from Cuba) have a lot of catching up to do, and orgs tend to put as little on their plates as possible. The problem here is that Moncada is a goddamn freak of nature who has obliterated every personal and professional challenge the Sox have thrown at him. He's a generational-talent type

 

I agree - I'm not sure where it will take him, but I've been paying attention since '62 and I would be hard pressed to come up with anybody who has ever been in a Sox uniform with this kid's athletic skills.

[cp176]

I agree - I'm not sure where it will take him, but I've been paying attention since '62 and I would be hard pressed to come up with anybody who has ever been in a Sox uniform with this kid's athletic skills.

 

With Benintendi moving up, it was just a matter of a short time before Moncada was placed in a position where he could follow. it wasn't going to be as a second baseman.

[moonslav59]

The "flack" you actually caught was people saying this is a decision the Sox needed to make when they felt he was ready, not just because he was blocked by Pedroia at 2B, and that is still the case. These kids (especially the ones who come from Cuba) have a lot of catching up to do, and orgs tend to put as little on their plates as possible. The problem here is that Moncada is a goddamn freak of nature who has obliterated every personal and professional challenge the Sox have thrown at him. He's a generational-talent type

 

You and others claimed the protocol was not to move positions within a year of a level promotion, You and others were adamant about it. Now you admit he's a "freak", and that was my point back then. Moncada looked to be very close to MLB ready with the bat. That may cause adjustments to protocol if not blow it away.

 

I never said change his position right away either. I merely said they should "start giving him reps at 3B soon". YUou guys called the idea "silly", "absurd" and "ridiculous". Of course my idea was based on the idea of his "readiness". I felt he was very close to ready. You guys flet he needed to wait it out at least to the end of this year.

 

Shortly afterwards, the Sox started giving Moncada reps at 3B, and you guys still claimed I was wrong and you were right. You even accused me of "beating my chest" which was false. You may call this "desperation" like you did the Benintendi move to the bigs, but the fact is the Sox felt Moncada was ready pretty close to the same time I suggested. They and I recognized he was a "freak" and maybe tradition and protocol need to be put aside for a kid like him.

 

I'm actually surprised Moncada started at 3B so quickly after taking reps. I think it's his likely position. I think he has an excellent chance to be our starting 3Bman by early next year- maybe even opening day, especially if he plays some winter ball at 3B. Waiting a few more months would not have helped him get any closer to where he needs to be.

 

I've never said move every young player that is blocked. That's foolish, but with freaks like Moncada and Beni- you have to adjust the clock. I think Sox management watched the fast rise of Betts, realized they might have lucked out with his super quick adjustment to the OF at the ML level, and figure they would be more pro-active. Better to give the kids more time at a new position on the farm than at the ML level.

 

[User Name]

That's because that's what literally the protocol is. Moncada is an exception to the rule in a way that not you (or anyone else for that matter) thought really possible. I thought he was good, but not this beastly.

[moonslav59]

That's because that's what literally the protocol is. Moncada is an exception to the rule in a way that not you (or anyone else for that matter) thought really possible. I thought he was good, but not this beastly.

 

Yeah. You were right, still are right and always have been.

[moonslav59]

Devers named player of the month by soxprospects.com:

 

http://news.soxprospects.com/2016/08/july-players-of-month-rafael-devers-and.html

 

Devers struggled in April, but here's what they had to say...

 

"Despite playing in Salem, one of the hardest-hitting environments in all of the minors, Devers hit .357/.408/.670 in 125 plate appearances, with 13 doubles, four triples, and five home runs. To put his outburst in perspective, only one other member of Salem has five home runs all season."

 

(Note: Beni and Moncada combined for 5 HRs in over 420 combined PAs at Salem earlier this year.)

 

 

Edited August 14, 2016 by moonslav59

[Station 13]

Kopech

5ip 2h 2r 2bb 11k

 

60k in 38.1ip in high A.

[cp176]

You and others claimed the protocol was not to move positions within a year of a level promotion, You and others were adamant about it. Now you admit he's a "freak", and that was my point back then. Moncada looked to be very close to MLB ready with the bat. That may cause adjustments to protocol if not blow it away.

 

I never said change his position right away either. I merely said they should "start giving him reps at 3B soon". YUou guys called the idea "silly", "absurd" and "ridiculous". Of course my idea was based on the idea of his "readiness". I felt he was very close to ready. You guys flet he needed to wait it out at least to the end of this year.

 

Shortly afterwards, the Sox started giving Moncada reps at 3B, and you guys still claimed I was wrong and you were right. You even accused me of "beating my chest" which was false. You may call this "desperation" like you did the Benintendi move to the bigs, but the fact is the Sox felt Moncada was ready pretty close to the same time I suggested. They and I recognized he was a "freak" and maybe tradition and protocol need to be put aside for a kid like him.

 

I'm actually surprised Moncada started at 3B so quickly after taking reps. I think it's his likely position. I think he has an excellent chance to be our starting 3Bman by early next year- maybe even opening day, especially if he plays some winter ball at 3B. Waiting a few more months would not have helped him get any closer to where he needs to be.

 

I've never said move every young player that is blocked. That's foolish, but with freaks like Moncada and Beni- you have to adjust the clock. I think Sox management watched the fast rise of Betts, realized they might have lucked out with his super quick adjustment to the OF at the ML level, and figure they would be more pro-active. Better to give the kids more time at a new position on the farm than at the ML level.

 

 

You are probably right, you weren't clamoring for the Red Sox to get Moncada into another position. I was though. I think that it is great that they have a protocol that they like to follow and coming from the bb background he has come from, i understand what they were doing. I just didn't and haven't liked it. No one, repeat no one knows where this kid will wind up or what position he will play. Will he even play for us? Benintendi looks like he could be a very nice player for us but he is no beast Although it probably depends on what you use as a definition. Moncada on the other hand is a potential beast. Now I like Beni and he may turn out to be the better player but physically at this time it isn't even fair to compare him to Moncada.

[moonslav59]

You are probably right, you weren't clamoring for the Red Sox to get Moncada into another position. I was though. I think that it is great that they have a protocol that they like to follow and coming from the bb background he has come from, i understand what they were doing. I just didn't and haven't liked it. No one, repeat no one knows where this kid will wind up or what position he will play. Will he even play for us? Benintendi looks like he could be a very nice player for us but he is no beast Although it probably depends on what you use as a definition. Moncada on the other hand is a potential beast. Now I like Beni and he may turn out to be the better player but physically at this time it isn't even fair to compare him to Moncada.

 

It was "silly" of us to think of Moncada as a freak a month or more before others.

[cp176]

It was "silly" of us to think of Moncada as a freak a month or more before others.

 

Hearing what the scouts had to say and trying to read what was written about this kid was exciting and very interesting. Seeing him up close confirms everything said about his physical gifts. For 40 plus years i lied with respect to high school basketball programs. We all want them to be bigger and stronger than they are. This particular player looks like everything they said he was going to look like. He may not become a star but if he does, my guess is that power is not going to be an issue. My gut tells me that he will either be at third or in the outfield.

[moonslav59]

Hearing what the scouts had to say and trying to read what was written about this kid was exciting and very interesting. Seeing him up close confirms everything said about his physical gifts. For 40 plus years i lied with respect to high school basketball programs. We all want them to be bigger and stronger than they are. This particular player looks like everything they said he was going to look like. He may not become a star but if he does, my guess is that power is not going to be an issue. My gut tells me that he will either be at third or in the outfield.

 

Agreed. Give him every chance to prove his defensive skills at 3B, and if that doesn't work, there's always the OF. We'd have to trade an OF'er or Pedey to create a spot for him FT, but that's is something very encouraging. Teams are drooling over JBJ and Beni right now.

 

Another idea might be to keep everybody and rotate out the DH position among all the other slots, except catcher and maybe SS. The other 6 positions all play DH every 6 days or so. Maybe they would be rested enough to never need a day off all year.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2016 by moonslav59