Red Sox to Retire Wade Boggs Uniform Number

[Dojji]

I do. He was the second best player in baseball during his peak years, and he's a Hall of Famer. What's not to honor there?

[cp176]

I do. He was the second best player in baseball during his peak years, and he's a Hall of Famer. What's not to honor there?

 

 

HOF criteria is fairly definitive. What criteria do the Red Sox use to honor players in this fashion? I'm sure that you must know and I really would like to be enlightened. A pretty good gap between Pesky and Boggs. It is a feel good PR move. Nothing more. It is all good. In your opinion he should have is number retired. Wonderful. My opinion would be without knowing what the specific criteria is that has to be met, there are others that deserve to be honored in this way before Boggs.

[Elktonnick]

HOF criteria is fairly definitive. What criteria do the Red Sox use to honor players in this fashion? I'm sure that you must know and I really would like to be enlightened. A pretty good gap between Pesky and Boggs. It is a feel good PR move. Nothing more. It is all good. In your opinion he should have is number retired. Wonderful. My opinion would be without knowing what the specific criteria is that has to be met, there are others that deserve to be honored in this way before Boggs.

 

Solid point

[cp176]

Solid point

 

thanks - Just seems like an arbitrary kind of honor to me. A special one for sure but just for starters - Tony C., Luis T., and Dewey would have their day quite a while before Boggs. Sounds like I don't like him but I do. IMO - the others meant more to the Boston Red Sox than he did. Guess I just don't see him as representing more than some others when it comes to Boston Red Sox history.

[Dojji]

Why the hell would you retire Tony Conigliaro's number? People keep saying this and it makes no sense. He's not a Hall of Famer -- not even in the same galaxy as Hall of Famers.

 

Tony C was a fan favorite who got hurt 3 years into his career and turned into nothing but a sob story. Nothing less, but definitely nothing more either. Is there a player in the history of the Red Sox franchise more overhyped than this guy? We've seen other injuries end the careers of other players early before. Why is this different?

 

He had all the talent in the world but so did a lot of other flops. Sure, this flop has a tragic ring because baseball to the face, but that's not enough to make for the fact that this was just yet another guy with all the talent in the world who ultimately wound up going nowhere. We see these guys every few years. The only reason we even care about Tony C any more than any of the hundreds of other similar players that have been and gone and come to nothing, is because of the Impossible Dream. His story is especially sad, but not especially special.

 

I mean seriously, if we're going to put that guy on the wall, I can't wait until we retire #20. I mean after all, unlike Tony C, Youk actually won something before his mounting injuries ended his carreer, right?.

 

Tiant, Dewey, Rice, these are guys that deserve active decisionmaking on whether to honor them. These guys were among the best at their craft for a long period of time. I would put Boggs on that list too, as he was the best 3Bman in the world for about 10 years. Tony C was just a guy who was popular and had a bad injury at a time when the eyes of the world were on the team. That's pretty much his entire career right there.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Dojji

[cp176]

Why the hell would you retire Tony Conigliaro's number? People keep saying this and it makes no sense. He's not a Hall of Famer -- not even in the same galaxy as Hall of Famers.

 

Tony C was a fan favorite who got hurt 3 years into his career and turned into nothing but a sob story. Nothing less, but definitely nothing more either. Is there a player in the history of the Red Sox franchise more overhyped than this guy? We've seen other injuries end the careers of other players early before. Why is this different?

 

He had all the talent in the world but so did a lot of other flops. Sure, this flop has a tragic ring because baseball to the face, but that's not enough to make for the fact that this was just yet another guy with all the talent in the world who ultimately wound up going nowhere. We see these guys every few years. The only reason we even care about Tony C any more than any of the hundreds of other similar players that have been and gone and come to nothing, is because of the Impossible Dream. His story is especially sad, but not especially special.

 

I mean seriously, if we're going to put that guy on the wall, I can't wait until we retire #20. I mean after all, unlike Tony C, Youk actually won something before his mounting injuries ended his carreer, right?.

 

Tiant, Dewey, Rice, these are guys that deserve active decisionmaking on whether to honor them. These guys were among the best at their craft for a long period of time. I would put Boggs on that list too, as he was the best 3Bman in the world for about 10 years. Tony C was just a guy who was popular and had a bad injury at a time when the eyes of the world were on the team. That's pretty much his entire career right there.

 

A little over the top I think on your Tony C. negativity. Must have struck a nerve. Tony C. was very very special to those of us who lived through some of the Red Sox most trying seasons. You can beat all you want to about credentials needed to have your number retired. Bottom line - your opinion is no better or worse than anyone elses. My point = Tony Conigliaro represented a hell of a lot more to the history of this team than anything Wade Boggs has ever done. We aren't talking HOF. You see, I remember listening to the game the night he got hit. All of the promise and hope in the world ripped apart by one pitch. For the record, i did not say that i would retire his number. That does not change how I feel about his importance to Red Sox history with respect to Wade Boggs. Simply stated Boggs would be back in the pack for me. Just so I know what I am dealing with - for clarity sake - You are saying that Tony Conigliaro was a flop?

[cp176]

Forgot to mention the fact that he was a local boy. I might be alone in this one as well but that means something to me.

[Dojji]

My point = Tony Conigliaro represented a hell of a lot more to the history of this team than anything Wade Boggs has ever done.

 

That is objectively wrong on so many different levels that I don't even.

 

You do realize that the Red Sox got closer to winning it all in 86 than they ever did in 67 right? For one thing they had the pitching in 86, they got by on Lonborg and a dream in 67. For another, Bogs had a few more bites at the apple after 86 and Tony C fades into insignificance as anything other than a tool of nostalgia after 67.

 

Just so I know what I am dealing with - for clarity sake - You are saying that Tony Conigliaro was a flop?

 

Yes. He was a flop. Considering the promise everyone said he had before the injury and what he showed after? "Flop" is accurate. The man promised much and delivered little. It's a textbook definition.

 

Now that said it was hardly his fault, Tony C's career died because of a nasty injury and IIRC it was additional injuries that derailed his comback, but that's true for a lot of players deemed by the masses to be flops. I just don't see why the tragic end to Tony C's career is all that different to two dozen other kids we've seen come and go who had the same sorts of things happen to them

 

The only real difference I can see not having been born in the era when he played, was that his initial injury, the hit to the face, came in the middle of the narrative of the Impossible Dream year and got mixed in with the nostalgia of the 1967 season after the fact. That and the sense that maybe if he had been healthy the team would have won in 67 has combined to turn Tony C into some kind of tragic hero, which I honestly don't believe the man deserves on the face of it.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Dojji

[cp176]

That is objectively wrong on so many different levels that I don't even.

 

 

 

Yes. He was a flop. Considering the promise everyone said he had before the injury and what he showed after? "Flop" is accurate. The man promised much and delivered little. It's a textbook definition.

 

Now that said it was hardly his fault, Tony C's career died because of a nasty injury and IIRC it was additional injuries that derailed his comback, but that's true for a lot of players deemed by the masses to be flops. I just don't see why the tragic end to Tony C's career is all that different to two dozen other kids who had the same sorts of things happen to them, the only real difference I can see not having been born in the era when he played, was that his initial injury, the hit to the face, came in the middle of the narrative of the Impossible Dream year and got mixed in with the nostalgia of the 1967 season after the fact.

 

It is not wrong in any sense of its meaning His accomplishments from 1964 to 1970 had great significance to fans at that time.

I'll stand by any statement that I have made. To somehow trivialize his place in Red Sox history is a shot across the bow that most lifelong fans would not take.

[Dojji]

It is not wrong in any sense of its meaning His accomplishments from 1964 to 1970 had great significance to fans at that time.

I'll stand by any statement that I have made. To somehow trivialize his place in Red Sox history is a shot across the bow that most lifelong fans would not take.

 

What place in history? He was a kid with talent who got hit in the face. Kids with talent get hurt all the time and it's always a sad tragedy. Why is this any different at all from hundreds of other such stories over the course of MLB history?

 

There are 7 different players on the 1967 team alone that deserve a bigger place in history than Tony C. The level of nostalgic magnification when it comes to this player is almost criminal. He wasn't even all that good even when he was healthy, yes he could hit but he gave up runs with his glove and his WAR is only pretty good, he was by no means a showstopper, and that was before he got hurt.

 

Only the 1967 narrative and the nostalgia from that campaign keeps Conigliaro from reflecting his ACTUAL place in history -- which is as a one of the tens of thousands of players who played in MLB who had great potential who for one reason or another never quite got there.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Dojji

[cp176]

Based on your comments and observations, I am thinking you are confused. It's Tony not his brother Billy. Just a little sarcasm. You are wrong.

[Spudboy]

Forgot to mention the fact that he was a local boy. I might be alone in this one as well but that means something to me.

 

Nope. You and I are probably among the very few on this boards who listened to that game that night.

 

I don't care about retiring his number. But clearly Dojji is far too young to have an understanding of what Tony C was to us who lived here back then.

 

Imagine a healthy Rocco Baldelli and now add more speed and 35-40 HR power.

[Dojji]

Speed? Tony C never demonstrated more than average base stealing ability. He was a good hitter and player but nothing like a generational talent. In his two healthy years he hit 32 and 28 home runs -- nothing to spit at, but also nothing the world hasn't seen before.

 

Tony C had the good luck to get hurt during a storied period in Red Sox history and be remembered as the ultimate if-only guy in an if-only franchise and that is the only reason he is even remembered. He was a super hyped prospect that had a couple great seasons then exploded due to injury, anything more is nostalgic magnification.

[Elktonnick]

Speed? Tony C never demonstrated more than average base stealing ability. He was a good hitter and player but nothing like a generational talent. In his two healthy years he hit 32 and 28 home runs -- nothing to spit at, but also nothing the world hasn't seen before.

 

Tony C had the good luck to get hurt during a storied period in Red Sox history and be remembered as the ultimate if-only guy in an if-only franchise and that is the only reason he is even remembered. He was a super hyped prospect that had a couple great seasons then exploded due to injury, anything more is nostalgic magnification.

 

Tony C had the potential to be an All Star regularly which he was one year. To say he had the "good luck" to be hurt is a mean spirited slur unless you were being sarcastic. The injury was horrific. I remember it well. Quite frankly the only lucky thing about it was he was lucky he wasn't killed. The injury ruined his career. He never was the same ballplayer after that, both physically and mentally.

[Bellhorn04]

Tony C had the good luck to get hurt during a storied period in Red Sox history and be remembered as the ultimate if-only guy in an if-only franchise and that is the only reason he is even remembered. He was a super hyped prospect that had a couple great seasons then exploded due to injury, anything more is nostalgic magnification.

 

You got that wrong. Tony C did not have 'good luck to get hurt'.

[Elktonnick]

Bob Ryan in 2013 wrote the following:

 

"But we do not exaggerate. We do not embellish. Tony Conigliaro was the absolute Real Deal. I think the people who believe Tony C would have become an absolute monster for American League pitchers as he marched through his 20s and 30s pretty much have it right. Tony C was 22 years old when that ball hit him in the face, causing lifetime eyesight problems that led to an extremely shortened career. He was the fastest ever to reach 100 home runs. He was a babe. He was just learning. And he was going to play 81 games a year in Fenway. Gee, a righthanded power hitter with a fly ball swing in Fenway, someone who would get stronger and smarter about the game. Whaddya think?

 

Tony Conigliaro was enormously talented. Please remember, when he came back in 1969 after missing the final six weeks of the 1967 season and all of the 1968 season, he was fooling us all. He hit 20 homers and drove in 82 to become the logical winner of the Comeback Player of the Year Award, and he followed that up with 36-116 production in 1970. And then the Red Sox traded him! Don’t get me started on that one.

 

OK, did they know he was doing it with one eye? I don’t think so. If they did, they sure didn’t tell the Angels. My only point is that he was doing it with one eye, and there aren’t enough laudatory adjectives to describe that achievement. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that a man who could do that against major league pitching with one eye and who already had more than 100 homers in the books before age 23 was going to have a pretty good career. No, I don’t think we’re exaggerating anything. Tony C was going to Cooperstown the night he was hit, and he wasn’t going to have any need to buy a ticket when he got there, if you know what I mean.

 

The Tony C story is sad on every level. It’s a “Life Isn’t Fair” story. It’s a “What If?” story. It’s a what-if-he-had-listened-to-people-and-stopped-hanging-over-the-plate story. Today is Aug. 18, and I will spend a lot of it thinking about Tony C. I’ll try to focus on the good stuff, but it’s hard.

 

My best to the family."

 

Now I don't know whether the Red Sox should retire Tony C's number or not. But I think there is no doubt that Tony C was an outstanding ballplayer and a potential Hall of Famer before he got beaned.

[cp176]

Thank you very much for posting this. Good to see that there were a few others around at that time who experienced what we saw and felt about this young gift that we were given for such a short time. I don't know whether or not his jersey should be retired. It doesn't really matter. The discussion began with the idea of Wade Boggs having his jersey retired in Boston. Once again, personally I don't really care. My understanding is that the statistical evidence of a player's greatness presents only one piece of the puzzle that gets put together in this picture. We aren't talking the HOF. For lifelong fans who have experienced this team's real rise to the top, that retired number stands for something very very special. Maybe even something a little tragic. I was too young for either Doer or Cronin, but as for the rest of those numbers, even today thinking about them brings back memories that I hope that I will be able to someday share with my grandchildren. To not appreciate the significant contributions of the greatest from this era, is to not appreciate the history of the franchise.

[Dojji]

This team has been entirely too stingy in retiring numbers. We have among the richest histories of any franchise in the majors and most of it is opaque to all but a few grayheads who we lose by the minute. Whole eras of Red Sox baseball where the team was on top went without anyone recognized for their significant contributions to the success of the franchise. I don't feel like that's OK. Without that tactile recognition on the wall we're coming to forget whole eras of the team's history.

 

I think it would be entirely appropriate if at least 2 of Boggs, Evans, and possibly even Clemens were on that wall. Right now we've got nobody from that era and memories are fading. My actual preference would be Boggs and Evans who were among the best two way players at what they did in their era for their respective positions.

 

But yeah if you're going to put Boggs up there the case for Dewey to be honored is almost completely undeniable. You'd have to have blinders on to find a way not to honor Evans after honoring Rice in particular, once you add Boggs who was also not a "lifer," Evans has to get something out of this. He was a better player than Rice for pity's sake, and Rice is now on that wall.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Dojji

[a700hitter]

I remember Tony C. I knew a lot of the stats in the Ryan article. The key one is that he reached 100 HRs faster than anyone. He had 100 HRs at age 22. He was tall and rangy and he was still filling out his frame. He had tremendous power. He had the tragic injury and missed an entire season. After returning he hit another 56 Homers in 2 seasons with the Red Sox. What no one except Tony C and the doctors knew was that he was hitting all of those HRs while blind in one eye. He had no depth perception. His comeback was incredibly brave. This guy was not a bust. His career was tragically short but he was a star player for the Red Sox and an All Star.

[User Name]

Honest question: Why is this such a big deal though?

 

We all know that the criteria for getting numbers retired is "all made up and the points don't matter". It's essentially nothing more than publicity whoring for the team.

[mvp 78]

Honest question: Why is this such a big deal though?

 

We all know that the criteria for getting numbers retired is "all made up and the points don't matter". It's essentially nothing more than publicity whoring for the team.

 

But NOBODY from that era is on the wall, definitely not a guy who played his whole career with the Sox from 75-90 and is in the HOF! Nobody!

[mvp 78]

Blinders apparently equal: Evans needs his number retired even though he'll ever be in the HOF.

[Kimmi]

Honest question: Why is this such a big deal though?

 

We all know that the criteria for getting numbers retired is "all made up and the points don't matter". It's essentially nothing more than publicity whoring for the team.

 

It's not a big deal. Just another topic to discuss.

 

I don't like Boggs, and, therefore, would rather not see him have the honor of having his number retired.

 

Pure personal bias on my part.

[a700hitter]

It's not a big deal. Just another topic to discuss.

 

I don't like Boggs, and, therefore, would rather not see him have the honor of having his number retired.

 

Pure personal bias on my part.[/quoteI appreciate the honest,but I am okay with it because he was an

Onbase God.

[mvp 78]

For reference, Boggs is #3 in JAWS. Great player. I wish he didn't have the Devil Rays rumor attached to him. He was probably loaded when he signed the contract and it wouldn't be legally binding anyway.

[Kimmi]

I appreciate the honest,but I am okay with it because he was an Onbase God.

 

Boggs was HOF worthy, without a doubt. I don't think anyone can argue that.

[Northern Star]

Incidentally, the Wade Boggs episode of It's Always Sunny was awesome.

[Redsoxgirl51282]

I actually have a video I took at Winter Weekend this past weekend at the town hall of brock giving Boggs his jersey. Brock is now number 12. Here is the video shot.

 

[Behindenemylines]

People that don't like Boggs probably can't get the picture of him on the horse in a $pankee uniform out of their mind. He was a great hitter!

[Spudboy]

People that don't like Boggs probably can't get the picture of him on the horse in a $pankee uniform out of their mind. He was a great hitter!

 

Not so. I happen to think that Boggs was a great two way player having been one of the best contact hitters I had seen and of course he did make himself into a GG 3rd baseman.

 

 

He said and did stupid things. No crime there except if he was an adulterer. He was and probably remains a creep.