Wade Miley: Not bad actually

[cp176]

No way in hell that ER starts 2016 in Pawtucket. That is nuts.

 

Even Owens ( in a small sample ) has demonstrated that he is MLB worthy and at least as good as some of the other guys on the staff.

 

Obviously E-Rod is for sure up. I think that Owens stands a very good chance of staying in that rotation as well. His future is apt to be affected by who the Sox bring in. I don't think that Owens status is going to hampered much by Buchholtz and Kelly. At least for now, he is healthy and they are not nor have they shown that to any great extent they can be.

[cp176]

Except that he may have an innings limit of 180 or something like that.

 

 

I would doubt that he will have a specific limit based on what he did this year. What did Miley wind up with? He has been a workhorse for us and I think that he finishes just shy of 200.

[Kimmi]

One could argue ( which would be me ) that since he has come up he has been our most exciting to watch as well as our best starting pitcher. Sending him back to AAA would be unbelievable. Depth of course is important but you don't send someone who really has proven that he can pitch back down. It won't happen, unless he gets hurt, so it is a moot point. We all ant to win. Best players need to play. One game - everything on the line - who do you pitch?

 

I am sure that you and everyone else is right that Rodriguez will be in the starting rotation to open the season next year. He deserves it and I have no issue with that. However, I would have no issue with him beginning the season in AAA either, as opposed to getting rid of a couple of our good pitchers because there is no room for them on the roster, then not having the quality replacement pitcher when needed.

 

Let's say Dombrowski signs a #1, then trades Miley or Kelly and does not pick up Buchholz's option. Our rotation would be #1, Rodriguez, Porcello, Owens, Miley/Kelly. Who fills in when one of those guys inevitably needs a DL stint? Heaven forbid 2 of our starters get injured because that depth looks really thin.

[cp176]

I am sure that you and everyone else is right that Rodriguez will be in the starting rotation to open the season next year. He deserves it and I have no issue with that. However, I would have no issue with him beginning the season in AAA either, as opposed to getting rid of a couple of our good pitchers because there is no room for them on the roster, then not having the quality replacement pitcher when needed.

 

Let's say Dombrowski signs a #1, then trades Miley or Kelly and does not pick up Buchholz's option. Our rotation would be #1, Rodriguez, Porcello, Owens, Miley/Kelly. Who fills in when one of those guys inevitably needs a DL stint? Heaven forbid 2 of our starters get injured because that depth looks really thin.

 

Obviously I see your point about having depth. I have to say though that Buchholz and Kelly do not represent good pitchers to me. They can be good in the short term but they become a burden to the development of the pitchers that are actually good in my estimation. Once again, I hope that DD goes out and gets two but I could live with one. Keeping Buchholtz and Kelly around represents the same type of risk that we lived through this year. It may happen, but it isn't necessary. There is no way that Rodriguez loses a spot in the rotation to either of these two. Owens may have to compete with one or both of them, if he is still around. Hey - maybe knowing that someone else wants their job, both will experience health transformations. I don't dislike them. I just prefer players that stay healthy.

[a700hitter]

1. New Acquisition

2. New Acquisition

3. Porcello

4. ER

5. Miley

 

Long Man BP Depth: Kelly

Minor League Depth: Owens, Workman, Johnson, Wright

 

Trade Buch,

[Youk Of The Nation]

Who are the biggest pitching FAs this offseason? I actually don't know that, so I'm kind of curious.

[cp176]

1. New Acquisition

2. New Acquisition

3. Porcello

4. ER

5. Miley

 

Long Man BP Depth: Kelly

Minor League Depth: Owens, Workman, Johnson, Wright

 

Trade Buch,

 

I like this. I think that I would like to see Hill stick around as well.

[mvp 78]

Who are the biggest pitching FAs this offseason? I actually don't know that, so I'm kind of curious.

 

Price

Zimmerman

Cueto

Greinke

Samardzija (sp?)

Leake

[a700hitter]

I like this. I think that I would like to see Hill stick around as well.

i would like to see Hill stick around too, but I think he will want a major league contract, and I don't think we have a spot for him. At age 35, time is running out on Hill and he will want to make some money.

[a700hitter]

1. New Acquisition

2. New Acquisition

3. Porcello

4. ER

5. Miley

 

Long Man BP Depth: Kelly

Minor League Depth: Owens, Workman, Johnson, Wright

 

Trade Buch,

If we only make one acquisition, I would exercise Buch's option and keep him in the rotatio for his usual half season. This will tax some of the depth. I am curious to see how Workman bounces back. I think he will be a nice bullpen arm and depth option.

[sk7326]

I am sure that you and everyone else is right that Rodriguez will be in the starting rotation to open the season next year. He deserves it and I have no issue with that. However, I would have no issue with him beginning the season in AAA either, as opposed to getting rid of a couple of our good pitchers because there is no room for them on the roster, then not having the quality replacement pitcher when needed.

 

Let's say Dombrowski signs a #1, then trades Miley or Kelly and does not pick up Buchholz's option. Our rotation would be #1, Rodriguez, Porcello, Owens, Miley/Kelly. Who fills in when one of those guys inevitably needs a DL stint? Heaven forbid 2 of our starters get injured because that depth looks really thin.

 

A side issue also is - you send somebody down who should be starting ... the kid knows it too. It is easy to tell someone to eat your vegetables, keep your head up etc ... but when somebody is blocked, and not on merit - it will show in his performance and development. If you believe players are human beings (and use that as a reason to p'shaw analytics or arguments against clutchy mcclutchersons) then this is an obvious sentiment.

[sk7326]

If we only make one acquisition, I would exercise Buch's option and keep him in the rotatio for his usual half season. This will tax some of the depth. I am curious to see how Workman bounces back. I think he will be a nice bullpen arm and depth option.

 

I think Workman as a starter should be dead - but he could be very helpful in the pen.

[Bellhorn04]

I think Workman as a starter should be dead - but he could be very helpful in the pen.

 

Yeah, it'd be nice to see that guy come back. He was so good in the 2013 postseason.

[Spudboy]

1. New Acquisition

2. New Acquisition

3. Porcello

4. ER

5. Miley

 

Long Man BP Depth: Kelly

Minor League Depth: Owens, Workman, Johnson, Wright

 

Trade Buch,

 

Sounds good to me. Especially if the two acquisitions are Lackey and Price.

 

I am not sure but I think Johnson may need TJS.

[cp176]

A side issue also is - you send somebody down who should be starting ... the kid knows it too. It is easy to tell someone to eat your vegetables, keep your head up etc ... but when somebody is blocked, and not on merit - it will show in his performance and development. If you believe players are human beings (and use that as a reason to p'shaw analytics or arguments against clutchy mcclutchersons) then this is an obvious sentiment.

 

How do you think Dombrowski tends to look at his players? I'm sure that he will make use of the available analytics, but I do think he gives great merit to the fact that other compelling forces help make these players what they are. I think that he wants to win too much to allow better players to be blocked. I'm thinking - play them or trade them. i don't think the stockpiling method is the way to go. I bet we see quite a bit of movement.

[cp176]

i would like to see Hill stick around too, but I think he will want a major league contract, and I don't think we have a spot for him. At age 35, time is running out on Hill and he will want to make some money.

 

I would love to see hill brought back but I hope things work out positively for him. His story has been a good one.

[Bellhorn04]

I would love to see hill brought back but I hope things work out positively for him.

 

Screw that. I'll give you some honesty. I want him back or I want him to stink. Well, OK, he can pitch well if he signs with Miami.

[a700hitter]

Screw that. I'll give you some honesty. I want him back or I want him to stink. Well, OK, he can pitch well if he signs with Miami.

lol! You are a man that doesn't like regrets.

[cp176]

yup guess that's honesty. That is why our New England teams are loved all over the world. Maybe they will bring him back. Maybe the "never signing anyone over the age of 30" concept might even get tweaked a bit. Hey - What the hell is up with your Graham DaLaet anyway? he killed my fantasy team. tell me it isn't his back again.

[Spudboy]

Screw that. I'll give you some honesty. I want him back or I want him to stink. Well, OK, he can pitch well if he signs with Miami.

 

lol

[Kimmi]

A side issue also is - you send somebody down who should be starting ... the kid knows it too. It is easy to tell someone to eat your vegetables, keep your head up etc ... but when somebody is blocked, and not on merit - it will show in his performance and development. If you believe players are human beings (and use that as a reason to p'shaw analytics or arguments against clutchy mcclutchersons) then this is an obvious sentiment.

 

This is a fair point.

[sk7326]

How do you think Dombrowski tends to look at his players? I'm sure that he will make use of the available analytics, but I do think he gives great merit to the fact that other compelling forces help make these players what they are. I think that he wants to win too much to allow better players to be blocked. I'm thinking - play them or trade them. i don't think the stockpiling method is the way to go. I bet we see quite a bit of movement.

 

I believe stockpiling is fine - but a team like Boston in particular (deep coffers, major league focus), only needs to worry about keeping the future super-mega-stars. I have no idea how the front office will work. But the way it is assembled, I am not sure whether Dombrowski will have THAT much direct influence on the scouting side. (and that has been the side of the operation which has clearly worked) I suspect Hazen will largely be in command there (And certainly in handling the analytics staff). I think it will largely be "play or trade" - although I think Hazen will help him with making the calls on the lower level guys.

 

I mean - just by reading the same things everybody else does - Benintendi, Devers, Moncada, Espinoza - all look like guys the team will hold because of megastar potential (at least for now). Everybody else in the minors is probably some level of fair game - including Margot, just because of how stacked the system in CF.

[cp176]

I believe stockpiling is fine - but a team like Boston in particular (deep coffers, major league focus), only needs to worry about keeping the future super-mega-stars. I have no idea how the front office will work. But the way it is assembled, I am not sure whether Dombrowski will have THAT much direct influence on the scouting side. (and that has been the side of the operation which has clearly worked) I suspect Hazen will largely be in command there (And certainly in handling the analytics staff). I think it will largely be "play or trade" - although I think Hazen will help him with making the calls on the lower level guys.

 

I mean - just by reading the same things everybody else does - Benintendi, Devers, Moncada, Espinoza - all look like guys the team will hold because of megastar potential (at least for now). Everybody else in the minors is probably some level of fair game - including Margot, just because of how stacked the system in CF.

 

 

Stockpiling prospects is fine if it doesn't cost you wins. Better players still need to play. it is a little early to get too excited about Espinoza. Great great potential - we shall see. Did he graduate from high school?

[sk7326]

Stockpiling prospects is fine if it doesn't cost you wins. Better players still need to play. it is a little early to get too excited about Espinoza. Great great potential - we shall see. Did he graduate from high school?

 

Oh I am not betting anything super important on Espinoza - but it is not the sort of ceiling you just give away either. Youngest player in Greenville by 13 months, and that is only because he is too young for the AFL

[Dojji]

Apropos of nothbing: Did you guys know that Miley actually finished 6th on the team in WAR and second among SP's with 2.5 wins above replacement? That's not only not terrible, it's outright above average. He was our second best starter which is more an indictment of our rotation than it is credit for Miley, but he still did his job pretty darned well this year and should probably be seen as a lock for a rotation slot next year down hn the 4 or5 spot in the rotation.

[gojohn99]

I think I'd rather cut bait with Buchholz and keep Miley. Wade at least gives you inning and pitched near his career normal. He's a good 4th starter.

[jacksonianmarch]

Every rotation needs a guy like Miley at the back end. It isn't realistic to expect to be the Mets and have 4 aces. The concerns on my end involve his chemistry and his HR tendencies. The guy ended up posting a career high ERA and a higher than average WHIP while also allowing his lowest HR total since his rookie season. That is boggling to me. I would have assumed his elevated ERA would have been due to an increased precedence of the HR ball. If his HR rate returns to the prior season or higher, that ERA would hit near 5 and he'd be more or less a mess

[sk7326]

Really, Miley is going to be part of the rotation solution, and that is fine.

 

Free agency will be a tricky place to find difference making starting pitching. Price is the one guy, and he's 29 but will force you to buy a number of decline years (and surrender a pick). Is that worth it? You can go either way there. The other sexy names on the starter list have major question marks - is Jordan Zimmermann any good really, and is Cueto's arm going to remain attached to his body.

 

I actually like the idea of signing Lackey. Durable, knows Boston. Similary Mark Buehrle is useful on a short deal (Dan Haren less so, but still). If you want to take a short money flyer (with the modest expectations that come with it), could do a lot worse than Cliff Lee.

[cp176]

I would be stunned in a good way if Lackey actually had any interest at all in coming back to Boston. Once you get past Price, I don't see an body worth the big bucks. Price - yes I think that he would be worth the risk. if the scouting reports are accurate, you have Moncada, Devers, and Guerra, Benintendi, and to a lesser extent maybe Margot projecting to be more than just contributors on a contending team. Throw a catcher in the mix along with Owens, Kelly, and whoever else and I have to think trading for a young ace or maybe more than one is a possibility. We all love our prospects and I know they are all very young but Red Sox have a history of hanging on to or not bringing up potential players who could help out the big club. you could make a case for anyone of these guys being blocked for quite some time. It won't benefit anybody. For instance take Moncada. Being brought along as a second baseman. Many consider him to be our number 1 prospect. How long do you think it will be before he gets a start at second in Boston? Guerra is a gifted young ss. I don't think he will ever play in Boston. See anybody currently standing in the way of those young outfielders? I do. What is going to happen at third? I am not saying that any of these guys are ready just yet but if we try to hang on to everybody it won't work.

[a700hitter]

I

Really, Miley is going to be part of the rotation solution, and that is fine.

 

Free agency will be a tricky place to find difference making starting pitching. Price is the one guy, and he's 29 but will force you to buy a number of decline years (and surrender a pick). Is that worth it? You can go either way there. The other sexy names on the starter list have major question marks - is Jordan Zimmermann any good really, and is Cueto's arm going to remain attached to his body.

 

I actually like the idea of signing Lackey. Durable, knows Boston. Similary Mark Buehrle is useful on a short deal (Dan Haren less so, but still). If you want to take a short money flyer (with the modest expectations that come with it), could do a lot worse than Cliff Lee.

Buehrle has retired.