Wade Miley: Not bad actually

[Spudboy]

There probably hasn't been a better year to look for starting pitching out of free agency. There is enough talent available that they might be able to get a strong #2 like Gallardo/WY Chen for 60 million.

 

The problem is, where on earth are they going to find a strong #1 who doesn't hate David Ortiz?

 

Price would jump at playing here if his terms were met. The Ortiz thing is blown way out of proportion by the media.

 

Price would change his tune very quickly. And Ortiz would know enough to go along and get along.

[Spudboy]

LOL! But they would love not having to face him.

 

It may be lol but it is true!!!

[cp176]

I am just speaking for myself. I am just a fan. I don't pretend to jibber jabber about budgetary matters other than my own. If the rest of you want to get involved in a micro-analysis of the team's finances, go right ahead if you find enjoyment in that. At the macro- level, $189 million for a last place team is an overpay.

 

As for whether Kimmi will shudder if Price gets a $160 million deal from the Red Sox, you would have to ask her. I would not.

 

 

I'm with you for sure here. I don't care how much of the in coming money they spend at all. It would be nice to think that when huge chunks are spent it isn't akin to just flushing the toilet. There is one hell of a difference between spending the money on players that you hope might perform better and remain healthier than they ever have before and signing the likes of Price and or Grienke. For the record, if they choose to waste $ on long term contracts, once again their money. Problem with the Sox is that they tend to let it stand in the way of their younger and potentially better players.

 

I love them but not enough to worry about the size of their payroll. they raise ticket prices to the point of being ridiculous = me staying home.

[SoxHop]

I get all of that, but it is not my business. If they are not smart enough to manage their business without spending themselves into insolvency, they shouldn't own this kind of business. Their balance sheet is not my worry. Other teams sign these star ballplayers to big contracts and they manage to stay in business even when the players deteriorate at the end of the contracts. It can be done successfully. Our guys managed to spend $200 million the last 2 seasons and run a bunch of Yugos onto the field.

 

In the end, I have no control over their finances, so I don't worry about it. I have control over whether I go to the games and spend my money. I don't go to many games if they have an uninspired last place team. The fact that they spent $200 million on garbage the last couple of years indicated to me that the organization needed changes. They have taken steps to address that, and we shall see if they made the right moves.

 

ahahaha Yugos ......... well said......

 

Hell, I'm happy if they want to blow 2 billion dollars next year too, just not at the expense of a few more years down the road......

 

I get you....... you want the FO to do a good job whatever it takes......... but we are somewhat following along with what is happening and know the repercussions of a certain move...... we also are at the point where we have been bad enough the last couple of years it would be nice to be in a meaningful game in Oct....... but at what sacrifice seems to be the question?????????? you can't say I want the Sox to sign Price to billions........ then turn around and say that was a stupid signing...later...... right....?

[SoxHop]

Actually, SoxHop, the Red Sox have made their budget for payroll fairly clear - they try to keep it at or around the luxury tax threshold, which makes perfect economic sense.

 

The threshold the last few years has been 189 million. But that includes some costs that do not show up in the salary figures you see for the players. The biggest amount is benefit payments which are now somewhere around 12 million a year.

 

So the real budget for salaries is somewhere around 175 million.

 

Signing David Price would be great. But his 30 million a year obviously takes up a big chunk of that payroll budget. That's why it matters to us as fans.

 

Exactly Bellhorn...... Exactly....

[SoxHop]

Some of you people are annoying me.......... yea we want the best possible players......... but yea........ buying those today can bust tomorrow....

[SoxHop]

I'm in Paris right now...... (long and crazy story)

 

I've seen maybe 8 people wearing Yankee hats.......... they look like locals.......

 

the one person I saw with Sox gear had a black and grey Sox jacket on........ and was a total decrepit bum...

 

So much for the Sox talking over the world.......... we need to ring up a few more championships I think...

[SoxHop]

Everything has an acquisition cost. Just so happens that the cost of what you need most is at a premium

 

Sorry for giving you a hard time and pulling the Yank vs Sox stuff......... I dig reading your stuff and your more knowledgeable about the Sox than most Sox fans.......

 

it's just part of the stupid game............ GFY

[Spudboy]

I'm in Paris right now...... (long and crazy story)

 

I've seen maybe 8 people wearing Yankee hats.......... they look like locals.......

 

the one person I saw with Sox gear had a black and grey Sox jacket on........ and was a total decrepit bum...

 

So much for the Sox talking over the world.......... we need to ring up a few more championships I think...

 

 

 

I've seen Yankee hats in Prague and Moscow. Ferrari hats were the most popular everywhere I went in Europe.

 

I saw several Patriots hats in Prague. Weird.

 

Bon apitite mon ami!

Edited October 17, 2015 by Spudboy

[SoxHop]

I've seen Yankee hats in Prague and Moscow. Ferrari hats were the most popular everywhere I went in Europe.

 

I saw several Patriots hats in Prague. Weird.

 

Bo apitite mon ami!

 

Seriously the Patriots in Prague maybe the most odd thing I've heard in a long time........ why?????? So odd.... I wonder why....

 

I can get the Ferrari thing...... F1.......... funny enough F1 will be in my home town while I'm away......

 

thanks....... wow......... the food is no joke here........

 

Spain and then Italy next....... WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOO!!!

[a700hitter]

ahahaha Yugos ......... well said......

 

Hell, I'm happy if they want to blow 2 billion dollars next year too, just not at the expense of a few more years down the road......

 

I get you....... you want the FO to do a good job whatever it takes......... but we are somewhat following along with what is happening and know the repercussions of a certain move...... we also are at the point where we have been bad enough the last couple of years it would be nice to be in a meaningful game in Oct....... but at what sacrifice seems to be the question?????????? you can't say I want the Sox to sign Price to billions........ then turn around and say that was a stupid signing...later...... right....?

Second guessing is the right and province of the fan. We can't be fired. Speaking for myself, if we get a couple or 3 years of good performance from a player, I am good with that even if they stink at the end of their contract, but if we sign a guy for big bucks who is a bust on day 1, I will blame the FO.

[Kimmi]

Much of this discussion centers around what constitutes a "star". Ramirez, Sandoval, and Porcello are not in the same category as Price. Their contracts were ridiculous regardless of what market trends seem to be. I won't be back in Fenway until the product on the field might justify raising ticket prices as they have continually done year after year.

 

Ramirez, Sandoval, and Porcello are not in the same category as Price, but nor are the contracts that they received in comparison to what Price will receive. I thought the Sandoval contract was too long, but I don't think any of those contracts you mentioned were ridiculous at the time they were signed. They are all terrible at the moment, but to me, they're only terrible in hindsight.

[Kimmi]

You get that there is a limit to how much a team can spend on the player payroll before the whole thing is non profitable right? Now that limit is really never going to be known to us, but it seems to be around 200 mil a year before the owners can't afford their penthouses and high priced jewelry for their wives. So as fans we have to assume that every year the salary needs to be about 200 mil.

 

Handing out long term contracts that don't pay off for the last three years is great for a while....... then the hangover hits.... and it can be a long hangover......

 

Long term conracts that blow up a year or two earlier handcuff a team for more than a couple of years......... and I get Hanley and Sandoval already have, that's a whole other discussion.

 

As a fan I want to see the team do well, we all do. I don't want to win now and have the team be a dumpster fire in a few years after. This can happen if multiple long term handcuffing contracts are made in the present......... we all get that right??????

 

So yes.............. I shudder too at long contracts.............. imagine if Hanley and Sand had 6 year contracts......... I bet you just puked in your mouth reading that......

 

Excellent post SoxHop. The key for the FO is to be able to balance between the short and long term goals. Too much emphasis on winning now by signing the superstars at the expense of the team's future is not the best way to build a competitive franchise.

[Kimmi]

Of course not. But the allocation of the budget is all part and parcel of the stuff most of us amateur GM's like to jibber-jabber about here on an ongoing basis.

 

PS if they can sign Price for 160 million I don't think Kimmi will shudder.

 

Good posts in this thread Bell. I might still shudder at $160 million, but not not nearly as much as I'd shudder at $220 million.

[Kimmi]

Price would jump at playing here if his terms were met. The Ortiz thing is blown way out of proportion by the media.

 

Price would change his tune very quickly. And Ortiz would know enough to go along and get along.

 

I agree that the Price/Papi thing is blown out of proportion. If the Sox offer him a contract to his liking, he would have no problem signing with the Sox. Personally, I get the feeling that he would like to remain in Toronto, especially with the team doing as well as they're doing.

[Kimmi]

Second guessing is the right and province of the fan. We can't be fired. Speaking for myself, if we get a couple or 3 years of good performance from a player, I am good with that even if they stink at the end of their contract, but if we sign a guy for big bucks who is a bust on day 1, I will blame the FO.

 

So, what happens if the Sox sign Price to a ludicrous contract, and for whatever reason, he can't sustain his level of success in Boston and becomes just a mediocre pitcher, making him a bust on day 1? Will you still blame the FO?

 

More importantly, how will the team be able to recuperate from that? I realize that Price is not likely to be a bust from day 1, it could happen. It's a lot of eggs to put into one basket.

[a700hitter]

So, what happens if the Sox sign Price to a ludicrous contract, and for whatever reason, he can't sustain his level of success in Boston and becomes just a mediocre pitcher, making him a bust on day 1? Will you still blame the FO?

 

More importantly, how will the team be able to recuperate from that? I realize that Price is not likely to be a bust from day 1, it could happen. It's a lot of eggs to put into one basket.

Wow, what a pessimist!

[Kimmi]

Wow, what a pessimist!

 

Way to avoid the question.

[a700hitter]

Way to avoid the question.

It's your wacky pessimistic hypothetical. You tell us how you will react. The only thing that I am somewhat sure of is that I will be happy if they sign Price. Edited October 17, 2015 by a700hitter

[a700hitter]

Good posts in this thread Bell. I might still shudder at $160 million, but not not nearly as much as I'd shudder at $220 million.

What price for Price wouldn't make you shudder?

[SoxHop]

I agree that the Price/Papi thing is blown out of proportion. If the Sox offer him a contract to his liking, he would have no problem signing with the Sox. Personally, I get the feeling that he would like to remain in Toronto, especially with the team doing as well as they're doing.

 

Blown out of proportion???? Papi called price a little girl. That doesn't sit well with males.

 

It can get ugly on the battlefield. Those games where benches empty and you ask yourself why did that happen, during a game there can be some non visual stuff going on we wouldn't know about. Calling someone a little girl doesn't sit well.

[SoxHop]

Wow, what a pessimist!

 

Damn your a dick..... I love it though.

[a700hitter]

Damn your a dick..... I love it though.

A funny prick. You get me.

[Spudboy]

Ramirez, Sandoval, and Porcello are not in the same category as Price, but nor are the contracts that they received in comparison to what Price will receive. I thought the Sandoval contract was too long, but I don't think any of those contracts you mentioned were ridiculous at the time they were signed. They are all terrible at the moment, but to me, they're only terrible in hindsight.

 

Well f*** hindsight then.

 

Learn to be prescient.

[Spudboy]

Seriously the Patriots in Prague maybe the most odd thing I've heard in a long time........ why?????? So odd.... I wonder why....

 

I can get the Ferrari thing...... F1.......... funny enough F1 will be in my home town while I'm away......

 

thanks....... wow......... the food is no joke here........

 

Spain and then Italy next....... WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOO!!!

 

One of the big attractions in Prague is The Charles Bridge. Anyway I saw a busking violinist with a small amp who had a Pats gym bag and baseball cap. f***ing strange!

[Spudboy]

I agree that the Price/Papi thing is blown out of proportion. If the Sox offer him a contract to his liking, he would have no problem signing with the Sox. Personally, I get the feeling that he would like to remain in Toronto, especially with the team doing as well as they're doing.

 

Yup. I get that feeling too.

[Spudboy]

Way to avoid the question.

 

I'll answer.

 

If he is a bust because of injury that occurs while playing for the Sox I will be disappointed. If it's an injury from a pre-existing condition ( like Lackey ), I will be massively pissed at the Sox.

 

If he sucks pond water like the two fat pigs then I will be very surprised and f***ing pissed at him.

 

I do not see that happening as long as his health is COMPLETELY vetted.

[cp176]

Ramirez, Sandoval, and Porcello are not in the same category as Price, but nor are the contracts that they received in comparison to what Price will receive. I thought the Sandoval contract was too long, but I don't think any of those contracts you mentioned were ridiculous at the time they were signed. They are all terrible at the moment, but to me, they're only terrible in hindsight.

 

Extending Porcello to big money on the hope that he becomes (note the optimism) something he has never really shown signs of being was a big risk. Signing Ramirez was just a huge risk by itself for all of the reasons previously beaten to death. Signing Sandoval at least made some sense. We needed a third baseman, we got one. Even a fat one was better than what we had going in. Each of these signing s would have made a little more sense to me if the Red Sox had then done what we thought they would do. Sign a real pitcher. A little numbness would have been ok if they had backed it hope with an actual common sense move. They did not. This off season I think that we will see them bring in a true top of the rotation guy. Someone who has actually been there. If they do this, we will all have to just suck it up and live with the fact that they have finally done something that at least going in to spring straining makes some sense. If it doesn't work out, so be it. Those types of chances makes sense to take.

[Kimmi]

It's your wacky pessimistic hypothetical. You tell us how you will react. The only thing that I am somewhat sure of is that I will be happy if they sign Price.

 

Way to avoid the question.

[Kimmi]

What price for Price wouldn't make you shudder?

 

For me it's not so much about the price as it is about the length of the contract. While I know it will never happen, it would take 5 years or fewer for me to not shudder.