2016 Red Sox Hot Stove Discussion Thread

[a700hitter]

Manny's career UZR/150 is -20.2 which is not good, but it is a far cry from Hanley's mark of -31.9. Manny was a bad outfielder, but he was an outfielder. Hanley was not an outfielder and had no business being out there.

[Northern Star]

Manny's career UZR/150 is -20.2 which is not good, but it is a far cry from Hanley's mark of -31.9. Manny was a bad outfielder, but he was an outfielder. Hanley was not an outfielder and had no business being out there.

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/v380775483/clebos-Guardians-plate-five-runs-in-the-4th-inning/?game_pk=415416

 

The thing I've noticed on a few of his misplays is he just f***ing stands there afterwards and lets someone else chase the ball down.

[User Name]

I don't disagree, but I don't think Porcello's 2016 will be twice the value of Gallardo's season.

 

That really depends on how effective Porcello can be, and how many innings he can soak up. Gallardo's bottom-line results last year were decent, but he was basically a 6 IP pitcher who didn't strike anybody out, and had a lot of luck, because you usually don't post sub-4.00 ERA seasons with a 1.4 WHIP.

[a700hitter]

That really depends on how effective Porcello can be, and how many innings he can soak up. Gallardo's bottom-line results last year were decent, but he was basically a 6 IP pitcher who didn't strike anybody out, and had a lot of luck, because you usually don't post sub-4.00 ERA seasons with a 1.4 WHIP.

Gallardo's is a nibbler. There is no disputing that, but his results have been consistent. And he has done it in the NL and inan AL bandbox.

[User Name]

Gallardo's is a nibbler. There is no disputing that, but his results have been consistent. And he has done it in the NL and inan AL bandbox.

 

You don't even need stats to know Gallardo got by on luck and good management last year. He's pitching slow-pitch up there. It will catch up to him.

[Kimmi]

I would prefer Gallardo at this contract than Porcello at his extension.

 

Considering the types of contracts that have been given out this offseason, the Os actually got a pretty deal for Gallardo, notwithstanding the lost first round pick.

 

The Red Sox' first round pick was not protected, BTW.

[Kimmi]

Gallardo's not getting any younger, and his velocity and K/9 are quickly regressing too. No thanks.

 

Gallardo also outpitched his FIP by over a run. Not a good sign.

 

The contract is decent, but I'm not sure he's worth a first round pick.

[Kimmi]

Manny's career UZR/150 is -20.2 which is not good, but it is a far cry from Hanley's mark of -31.9. Manny was a bad outfielder, but he was an outfielder. Hanley was not an outfielder and had no business being out there.

 

Manny's career LF UZR/150 is -20.7. Not a big difference from the overall OF number, but a difference nonetheless.

 

Manny cost the team approximately 2 wins defensively per season on average. Hanley cost the team approximately 3 wins defensively over one season.

 

Manny also had a season where his UZR/150 was -33.8, which was worse than Hanley's, and another season where it was -28.3.

 

How, in anyone's right mind, does that make Manny "fine" or "adequate" or "leagues above Hanley" or "a far cry from Hanley's".

 

Whether Manny was an outfielder or not, his defense was terrible, not much better than Hanley's. The only reason his defense was tolerated was because of his offense.

[mvp 78]

Approximately 3 wins in half a season.

[a700hitter]

The numbers and the eyes confirm that Hanley was much worse than Manny in the OF. Hanley could have carried Pujols bat last year and he still would have needed to be banned from the OF.

[Bellhorn04]

Approximately 3 wins in half a season.

 

Well, he was awful, but he wasn't quite that awful. His actual UZR for the games he played in was -17.8. The -31.9 is the number extrapolated to 150 games.

[a700hitter]

Well, he was awful, but he wasn't quite that awful. His actual UZR for the games he played in was -17.8. The -31.9 is the number extrapolated to 150 games.

And the /150 games figure is the best way to compare him to Manny apples to apples.

[Bellhorn04]

And the /150 games figure is the best way to compare him to Manny apples to apples.

 

Agreed. I was just pointing out to mvp78 that he wasn't '3 wins in half a season' bad.

[SoxnCycles]

Manny was "fine" and "adequate" in the outfield??

Yup, that catch by Manny of Damon's throw to the cut off man was a pure Web Gem!!

 

Just when you think things can't get more screwed up around here....

[mvp 78]

The sad part was that Damon actually needed a cutoff from 15 feet away. He had the worst OF arm I've ever seen.

[SoxnCycles]

The sad part was that Damon actually needed a cutoff from 15 feet away. He had the worst OF arm I've ever seen.

 

Yup, worse than Ellsbury, and that's saying something!

[sk7326]

Horrible defense feels less horrible in your mind when there is a .321/.439/.619 as a chaser.

[mvp 78]

Yup, worse than Ellsbury, and that's saying something!

 

I remember a lot of people giving Coco Crisp a good amount of hate, but he was light years ahead of Damon defensively. Every time I went to Fenway, some knucklehead would yell "Johnny woulda got that." Nope.

[Dojji]

People gave Coco Crisp trouble for his glove? Huh. Wow. He was one of the better defenders we've had in recent years. Definitely better than Damon. And he turned it up to 12 for the championship year in 07 too, that was one of the single best seasons I've ever seen a centerfielder play, defensively

[a700hitter]

People gave Coco Crisp trouble for his glove? Huh. Wow. He was one of the better defenders we've had in recent years. Definitely better than Damon. And he turned it up to 12 for the championship year in 07 too, that was one of the single best seasons I've ever seen a centerfielder play, defensively

I don't remember Coco getting grief over his fielding. His hitting was a disappointment, but he could go get the ball.

[mvp 78]

People gave Coco Crisp trouble for his glove? Huh. Wow. He was one of the better defenders we've had in recent years. Definitely better than Damon. And he turned it up to 12 for the championship year in 07 too, that was one of the single best seasons I've ever seen a centerfielder play, defensively

 

"He gets a late break on every ball and takes poor routes, that's why he has to dive every time."

 

or

 

"Damon was da best, kid. He could catch anythin, not like Coco Crap."

[a700hitter]

"He gets a late break on every ball and takes poor routes, that's why he has to dive every time."

 

or

 

"Damon was da best, kid. He could catch anythin, not like Coco Crap."

I am sure that you heard that stuff while watching games from a few Damon fans, but I don't remember it being a widespread consensus through RSN.

[sk7326]

One thing that is obvious is that fans are (somewhat) more savvy about defense than even in 2007. The measurement is better and while I don't think the average fan really understands UZR or DRS, it is clear that errors and fielding percentage are not nearly sufficient.

 

It is always striking how a player's hitting colours the assessment of defense. Unless a guy is a known defensive substitute - poor hitting I think does impact perception of defense.

 

Crisp was a good CF. Damon was below average although CF in Boston those years were tough jobs given they kinda sorta had to play LF too.

[Kimmi]

The numbers and the eyes confirm that Hanley was much worse than Manny in the OF. Hanley could have carried Pujols bat last year and he still would have needed to be banned from the OF.

 

No, they don't.

[Kimmi]

Horrible defense feels less horrible in your mind when there is a .321/.439/.619 as a chaser.

 

Exactly.

[a700hitter]

No, they don't.

You always need the last word.. don't you.

[cp176]

With Manny it at least looked as though he might catch the ball. With Hanley not so much. It was kind of like losing every ball hit to you in the sun. I'm sure that he is happier digging them out of the dirt.

[a700hitter]

With Manny it at least looked as though he might catch the ball. With Hanley not so much. It was kind of like losing every ball hit to you in the sun. I'm sure that he is happier digging them out of the dirt.

An infield error is usually one base. His misplays in the OF resulted in players running all over the bases.

[Spudboy]

But now Hanley will be involved in much more action and has much more to think about. It's one thing to be able to field a ground ball. I worry about throws getting behind him either from the infielders or pick-offs from a pitcher. I worry about his ability to break to the bag and set up to receive the ball. I worry about position in relays from the outfield. Really, there are many things to worry about. I think that he has the talent to be serviceable at first. I have next to no confidence that he has the mental ability to do the job.

 

The fact that so far in camp he has "declined" to take either early or late practice is worrisome as well. Napoli worked very hard to become a 1st baseman. Hanley shows no inclination to do anything of that nature.

 

Plus this all keeps Travis Shaw off the field.

[a700hitter]

But now Hanley will be involved in much more action and has much more to think about. It's one thing to be able to field a ground ball. I worry about throws getting behind him either from the infielders or pick-offs from a pitcher. I worry about his ability to break to the bag and set up to receive the ball. I worry about position in relays from the outfield. Really, there are many things to worry about. I think that he has the talent to be serviceable at first. I have next to no confidence that he has the mental ability to do the job.

 

The fact that so far in camp he has "declined" to take either early or late practice is worrisome as well. Napoli worked very hard to become a 1st baseman. Hanley shows no inclination to do anything of that nature.

 

Plus this all keeps Travis Shaw off the field.

Agreed. Last season we had to hope that the ball didn't get hit to LF. In 2016, we may find ourselves worrying about every groundball.