7/12 NY Yankees @ Boston

[Kimmi]

It wasn't even close to a balk.

 

Bogus call. Hernandez was out to get the Sox today, it seemed.

[Kimmi]

I like it. Hated it when all of their games were nationally televised. It's not that big of a rivalry anymore IMO.

 

I like it too. I can't stand when the Sox are the Sunday Night game.

[Kimmi]

Losing this game is not the end of the world, but it sure would have been nice to end the first half on a high note. Now we have 5 days to sit on this loss.

 

Losing series to our division rivals, especially the Yankees, is not going to get it done.

[User Name]

In all honesty, Sox should sell veterans at the deadline and prepare for a 2016 run, unless they can get good pitching at a reasonable price.

[NativeBostonian]

In all honesty, Sox should sell veterans at the deadline and prepare for a 2016 run, unless they can get good pitching at a reasonable price.

 

I agree. I don't like the thought of trading away young talent for a rental. There is just too much to fix with the pitching. It'd take multiple trades and a lot of digging into our farm system.

[Spudboy]

Bogus call. Hernandez was out to get the Sox today, it seemed.

 

I will be the first to admit I don't understand what constitutes a balk. Once that call was made it was over for Miley.

[a700hitter]

Yankees and red sox on a Sunday, surprised this is an early game. Also Miley sucks.

Without his bad games which were the fault of the fired pitching coach and bad hops resulting from faulty grounds crew work and freakish atmospheric conditions propelling pop ups into the stands for HRs, Miley has had a great season. The guy is awesome if you remove the outlier bad games. Without those games, his 4.80 ERA comes down to a little over 4. Very solid.

[Kimmi]

I will be the first to admit I don't understand what constitutes a balk. Once that call was made it was over for Miley.

 

I'm not an expert on balks either, but I've heard that when stepping in the direction of the base when throwing over to the base, the pitcher's foot has to be within a 45 degree angle towards first base. Looking at the replays, his foot was well within that 45 degrees. Also, it's the same move Miley has done all season long and for his entire career. That was only the 2nd time in his career he's been called for a balk in his major league career.

[a700hitter]

People think that Miley got upset about the balk and let it ruin his outing. I read on another site that he got upset when he was in the dugout while the Sox were batting. Someone got peanut butter on his chocolate.

[SoxHop]

We are f***ed.........

[iortiz]

Someone should start the 2016 offseason thread already. Unfortunately, It's too late to make a move and pointless. One arm ain't save us from this fiasco.

[jacksonianmarch]

Refsnyder is gonna be a pain in your ass for a long time. This kid is the consummate pro, takes pitches will steal bases and will hit for a good average

[jacksonianmarch]

Your season ended Friday night when Buchholz left the mound. The only way you guys could contend was to go out and deal for an ace and keep ERod and Buch healthy. With Buch out for awhile and being 7 games back in the L column, you don't have the goods to make it

[a700hitter]

Your season ended Friday night when Buchholz left the mound. The only way you guys could contend was to go out and deal for an ace and keep ERod and Buch healthy. With Buch out for awhile and being 7 games back in the L column, you don't have the goods to make it

That left us with a staff with1 good starter (ER) who is likely on an innings limit. The staff is a disaster, and a forseeable one.

[cp176]

That left us with a staff with1 good starter (ER) who is likely on an innings limit. The staff is a disaster, and a forseeable one.

 

What is very frustrating for me is that the pitching situation was predictable.

[jacksonianmarch]

Exactly. The staff was built without actually looking at the players, IMO. This team was put together with Bill James in mind without any advanced scouting. Masterson was DONE last yr. He was dealt to the Cardinals and couldn't break 90. The guy was effective when his FB was around the 93-95 mark, then he had an abrupt drop in velo, so let's throw $9.5 mil at him? WTF? Miley has progressively worsened in every season he has played. He also was a cancer in the clubhouse, having a fist fight with the manager. He also had HR issues that were worsening as his career went on. What made them think a move to Fenway would help that? Porcello being brought over here is a defensible move, and while the contract was an attempt to get ahead of the curve, it has turned into a total disaster. Porcello had been a #4-5 starter his whole career and came out gangbusters last yr. He faded to the point of not pitching in the playoffs last season and so the move was to deal for him and throw $88mil at him? The day the sox came out and said their whole plan was for Buch to be the ace was the day I knew your team wouldn't win. In order to win next yr, Ben is going to have to make a significant run at FA pitchers or make trades for established pitching rather than trying to outsmart the competition.

[a700hitter]

Exactly. The staff was built without actually looking at the players, IMO. This team was put together with Bill James in mind without any advanced scouting. Masterson was DONE last yr. He was dealt to the Cardinals and couldn't break 90. The guy was effective when his FB was around the 93-95 mark, then he had an abrupt drop in velo, so let's throw $9.5 mil at him? WTF? Miley has progressively worsened in every season he has played. He also was a cancer in the clubhouse, having a fist fight with the manager. He also had HR issues that were worsening as his career went on. What made them think a move to Fenway would help that? Porcello being brought over here is a defensible move, and while the contract was an attempt to get ahead of the curve, it has turned into a total disaster. Porcello had been a #4-5 starter his whole career and came out gangbusters last yr. He faded to the point of not pitching in the playoffs last season and so the move was to deal for him and throw $88mil at him? The day the sox came out and said their whole plan was for Buch to be the ace was the day I knew your team wouldn't win. In order to win next yr, Ben is going to have to make a significant run at FA pitchers or make trades for established pitching rather than trying to outsmart the competition.

If Ben doesn't right this ship with some moves now to improve th team to at least 3rd place in this pathetic division, his head will be on display on a stick on Yawkey way, before the playoffs begin.

[jacksonianmarch]

I don't know a700. The directive from above was not to spend on pitchers over 30, so he went out and dealt for 2 pitchers under 30 and extended them both without giving up on their minor league talent. The directive is geared towards not making bad investments, but unfortunately, it is the price of business. You think the Nats are pissed at what they're paying for Scherzer? That guy is the best pitcher in baseball right now. Getting CC was a great investment for us, the bad investment was re-upping him when he was going to opt out. But with FA pitchers, you usually make your bones the first half of the deal and then pay to watch them fall apart the second half. If you want to be one of the big boys in the marketplace as the sox are, you have to make some of those moves to ensure long term, regular success. Taking the small market approach to your pitching staff will rely a lot on development, which takes awhile and will force you to have peaks and valleys in production

[a700hitter]

I

I don't know a700. The directive from above was not to spend on pitchers over 30, so he went out and dealt for 2 pitchers under 30 and extended them both without giving up on their minor league talent. The directive is geared towards not making bad investments, but unfortunately, it is the price of business. You think the Nats are pissed at what they're paying for Scherzer? That guy is the best pitcher in baseball right now. Getting CC was a great investment for us, the bad investment was re-upping him when he was going to opt out. But with FA pitchers, you usually make your bones the first half of the deal and then pay to watch them fall apart the second half. If you want to be one of the big boys in the marketplace as the sox are, you have to make some of those moves to ensure long term, regular success. Taking the small market approach to your pitching staff will rely a lot on development, which takes awhile and will force you to have peaks and valleys in production

yep, I don't expect they will be going after Greinke in the off season because he is 32. He may be the best pitcher in baseball for my money. The guy is total precision. He is starting to remind me of Maddux.

 

I realize that the directive came from above about free agents over 30. Nevertheless, Bwn still screwed the pooch in a major way, and the owners and Luchinno will not fire themselves.

[jacksonianmarch]

The owners need to change their directive. They got cocky after 2013 and aren't seeing it for what it was, a total and complete fluke. Firing Ben and giving the same directive to the next GM isn't going to help. If you want elite pitching, you have to develop it or deal/sign it. And with the arb rules as is and how babied pitchers are, you aren't going to see many sub 30 prime aces reach FA

[Thunder]

I don't care what anybody says. I'm content with where we are at the break. I mean, where 6.5 out of a playoff spot. Buch's not going to be gone for that long. I will say, however, that if we don't play well on this road trip to LA and Houston next week, I will start to doubt it. But, right now, the offense has been there. That's the difference since May, when we were in the middle of the bad stretch. I feel that the offense will definitely save us a few games in the meantime. Then, Buch gets back, and the goal is that we will still be buyers, and go out and get a Hamels or Cueto.

[a700hitter]

The owners need to change their directive. They got cocky after 2013 and aren't seeing it for what it was, a total and complete fluke. Firing Ben and giving the same directive to the next GM isn't going to help. If you want elite pitching, you have to develop it or deal/sign it. And with the arb rules as is and how babied pitchers are, you aren't going to see many sub 30 prime aces reach FA

They need to fire Ben and change the directive.

[a700hitter]

The owners need to change their directive. They got cocky after 2013 and aren't seeing it for what it was, a total and complete fluke. Firing Ben and giving the same directive to the next GM isn't going to help. If you want elite pitching, you have to develop it or deal/sign it. And with the arb rules as is and how babied pitchers are, you aren't going to see many sub 30 prime aces reach FA

I see a bright future for you in motivational speaking.

[iortiz]

Exactly. The staff was built without actually looking at the players, IMO. This team was put together with Bill James in mind without any advanced scouting. Masterson was DONE last yr. He was dealt to the Cardinals and couldn't break 90. The guy was effective when his FB was around the 93-95 mark, then he had an abrupt drop in velo, so let's throw $9.5 mil at him? WTF? Miley has progressively worsened in every season he has played. He also was a cancer in the clubhouse, having a fist fight with the manager. He also had HR issues that were worsening as his career went on. What made them think a move to Fenway would help that? Porcello being brought over here is a defensible move, and while the contract was an attempt to get ahead of the curve, it has turned into a total disaster. Porcello had been a #4-5 starter his whole career and came out gangbusters last yr. He faded to the point of not pitching in the playoffs last season and so the move was to deal for him and throw $88mil at him? The day the sox came out and said their whole plan was for Buch to be the ace was the day I knew your team wouldn't win. In order to win next yr, Ben is going to have to make a significant run at FA pitchers or make trades for established pitching rather than trying to outsmart the competition.

This is pretty much the diagnostic. Most of the things you are saying here were commented in the offseason by some of us.

 

As you said, we need a new direction. If they want to keep Ben as a puppet, fine, but under a new GM or president or whatever you want to call him... But the important thing is that we need a new strategy, specially at pitching.

[jacksonianmarch]

iortiz, that is exactly what Ben is, a puppet. I think Theo got the power he wanted in Chicago mostly because Larry and Werner were the guys actually with the power in the org. When Theo moved on, Ben became the face of the FO, but I doubt he is actually the guy with the final directive. It sounds like Lucchino has been swept aside after last year's disaster and maybe Henry and Werner are the guys with the final says on things now. Regardless, if you want to have elite pitching, you need to be willing to pay for it with either cash, prospects or time. They don't want to spend cash, they don't want to trade prospects, and the fans are going to make them run out of time.

[Kimmi]

I don't know a700. The directive from above was not to spend on pitchers over 30, so he went out and dealt for 2 pitchers under 30 and extended them both without giving up on their minor league talent. The directive is geared towards not making bad investments, but unfortunately, it is the price of business. You think the Nats are pissed at what they're paying for Scherzer? That guy is the best pitcher in baseball right now. Getting CC was a great investment for us, the bad investment was re-upping him when he was going to opt out. But with FA pitchers, you usually make your bones the first half of the deal and then pay to watch them fall apart the second half. If you want to be one of the big boys in the marketplace as the sox are, you have to make some of those moves to ensure long term, regular success. Taking the small market approach to your pitching staff will rely a lot on development, which takes awhile and will force you to have peaks and valleys in production

 

There was never really a question of whether Scherzer would pitch well this season or not. Of course the Nats aren't pissed right now with what they're paying him. As you mentioned, it's the back half of that contract that will likely end up biting them. Oddly enough, it seems to me that it's the same fans who complain about the FO not signing the big free agents to huge contract that would be complaining when those same free agents handcuff the team financially 4 or 5 years down the road.

 

I agree that sometimes giving out a big contract is necessary, but that should not be the rule of thumb.

[jacksonianmarch]

But Kimmi, it is the rule of thumb for a large market team. It doesn't mean every player has to be on a big contract, but it does mean paying for your own home grown talent or bringing in top notch talent via FA. If you're a fan of the Pirates, you're happy that they are in contention, but for 20 years nobody gave a s***. If the sox didn't make the POs for twenty years, especially at this day and age, there would be riots and boycotts and s***.

[Kimmi]

But Kimmi, it is the rule of thumb for a large market team. It doesn't mean every player has to be on a big contract, but it does mean paying for your own home grown talent or bringing in top notch talent via FA. If you're a fan of the Pirates, you're happy that they are in contention, but for 20 years nobody gave a s***. If the sox didn't make the POs for twenty years, especially at this day and age, there would be riots and boycotts and s***.

 

Yes, you pay for your own guys like we did for Pedroia. The Sox should have locked up Lester before he hit free agency. You have to overpay to lock up free agents, but you don't stupidly overpay, like an ARod contract, for instance.

 

It wouldn't take 20 years of not making the playoffs for riots and boycotts. It's been 1 1/2 years since we won a WS, and there are already riots and boycotts.

[User Name]

Meh, still not bullish on extending Lester. They should ditch the small-market effort and go balls-out for Price and a #2.

[mvp 78]

Lester hasn't exactly lit the world on fire in the NL.