Who is the Biggest Problem Right Now?

[iortiz]

Yup. Even radical moves can't turn this around.

 

In the mean time I'm going to continue to watch the young nucleus of this team. Aside from Castillo who is most likely going to be the next bust du jour, the rookie types are very fun to watch.

 

I think that it is the best way to see it. Hopefully they call up more. They could start giving to JBJ a decent sample of ABs and figure out what could be the plan for him going forward for once and for all.

[cp176]

Actually I should have said I agree with that.

 

I exagerated a bit here to make a point. I think that any coach or manager can make a difference. I think that at this level it probably is more about managing personalities as opposed to actually teaching the game. It would be nice to think that Farrell's players have already been taught the things that we sometimes don't see them do. I can't really speak for Farrell's individual work effort - I can for Butterfield's. I would be surprised if anybody outworks him. Coaches like him do not work for fools. I'm not going to judge him because I am not at his practices. that is where you learn whether a coach is any good or not. He is humble - he takes responsibility- he is not afraid to own it. Would a change help - maybe . Is he the primary problem? Of course not. We are not talking about Bobby Valentine here.

[cp176]

There will be no quick or easy fixes to this mess. To blame and punish Farrell is short sighted and stupid.

 

I agree with you and I don't think that we are big time Farrell supporters either. No individual is going step into this mess and change things over night. Pressing the panic button and firing the coach in this situation might cause more harm than good. He ain't making the plays out there for them.

[RedSoxNC84]

Farrell has made some boneheaded moves sure, but what has happened so far has been a cross between players failing to perform at recent levels, and Ben's blunder with pitcher signgins. It's ALMOST like he took the 2012 approach to pitching all over again, which we all knew was total s***.

 

I really liked some of Ben's moves in the recent past, and I still like the Hanley and Panda signings, but god did Ben f*** us with pitching.

[Kimmi]

Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately LOL, I don't have time to respond to all of the posts in this thread that I want to, but let me just say that I disagree with 90% of what's being said in this and the other threads.

 

I think it's crazy that so many of you are already ruling Ben's offseason signings as failures for the next 4/5 years based on roughly 1/3 of a season, and that you already want to trade these guys away. These guys are good players. They really are. For some reason they are all underperforming.

 

Will they continue to underperform and stink like they do now? It's very unlikely.

[Bellhorn04]

Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately LOL, I don't have time to respond to all of the posts in this thread that I want to, but let me just say that I disagree with 90% of what's being said in this and the other threads.

 

I think it's crazy that so many of you are already ruling Ben's offseason signings as failures for the next 4/5 years based on roughly 1/3 of a season, and that you already want to trade these guys away. These guys are good players. They really are. For some reason they are all underperforming.

 

Will they continue to underperform and stink like they do now? It's very unlikely.

 

Kimmi, I always enjoy your posts and I love your attitude. Whatever you do don't get put off by the negativity you're seeing here right now.

 

I've been saying a lot of negative things myself, that's for sure. I like to think of myself as a realist. The fact is that our team is 30 games under .500 since the start of 2014, despite all of our obvious resources.

 

As Sox fans we've never been through anything like us, even us older ones, who have seen some very bad teams, but not ones who had such apparent advantages in payroll and supposed analytical expertise.

 

All of us here want the team to turn it around somehow.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Bellhorn04

[Thunder]

Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately LOL, I don't have time to respond to all of the posts in this thread that I want to, but let me just say that I disagree with 90% of what's being said in this and the other threads.

 

I think it's crazy that so many of you are already ruling Ben's offseason signings as failures for the next 4/5 years based on roughly 1/3 of a season, and that you already want to trade these guys away. These guys are good players. They really are. For some reason they are all underperforming.

 

Will they continue to underperform and stink like they do now? It's very unlikely.

 

I will fess up to ruling the offseason signings as disappointing. I don't think they are failures, and don't think we should trade them already. But the fact that they are underperforming is one of the main problems. That so called "dream team" that was popular a few years ago across the world of sports and inculded the 2011 Red Sox quickly went off the grid as soon as GMs and Owners in all leagues realized that it doesn't work. I think that was Ben's underlying goal, to build a dream team, whether he was even aware that that was what e was doing or not.

[sk7326]

Farrell has made some boneheaded moves sure, but what has happened so far has been a cross between players failing to perform at recent levels, and Ben's blunder with pitcher signgins. It's ALMOST like he took the 2012 approach to pitching all over again, which we all knew was total s***.

 

I really liked some of Ben's moves in the recent past, and I still like the Hanley and Panda signings, but god did Ben f*** us with pitching.

 

I think the criticism of Farrell is not about the tactical stuff you see necessarily - although things like optimal use of shifts and whatnot deserve scrutiny. But the entire team is underachieving at the same time - the lack of good seasons is so widespread that it is hard to put it all on the players or the GM (who would be accused of landing untalented players).

[Bellhorn04]

I think the criticism of Farrell is not about the tactical stuff you see necessarily - although things like optimal use of shifts and whatnot deserve scrutiny. But the entire team is underachieving at the same time - the lack of good seasons is so widespread that it is hard to put it all on the players or the GM (who would be accused of landing untalented players).

 

This is kind of a shaky assertion to me though...which particular players are significantly underachieving in a way that is difficult to explain?

 

Pedroia, Bogaerts, Holt and Betts are playing well.

Ortiz and Napoli may just have hit the wall career-wise.

Hanley and Panda's offensive numbers are not that far off career numbers/trends.

Etc.

[iortiz]

Farrell has made some boneheaded moves sure, but what has happened so far has been a cross between players failing to perform at recent levels, and Ben's blunder with pitcher signgins. It's ALMOST like he took the 2012 approach to pitching all over again, which we all knew was total s***.

 

I really liked some of Ben's moves in the recent past, and I still like the Hanley and Panda signings, but god did Ben f*** us with pitching.

Let's face it, they can not build a pitching staff. They built a very unbalanced team again, and while the offense is not what I expected, it is not that bad, they are 16th in all baseball in wRC+.

 

As I said, Ben and Farrell have to go.

[User Name]

This is kind of a shaky assertion to me though...which particular players are significantly underachieving in a way that is difficult to explain?

 

Pedroia, Bogaerts, Holt and Betts are playing well.

Ortiz and Napoli may just have hit the wall career-wise.

Hanley and Panda's offensive numbers are not that far off career numbers/trends.

Etc.

 

The pitching staff as almost a whole? Napoli's not old enough to have hit the wall THAT hard. Spare parts like Nava who are out of the roster but contributed to a number of losess, etc.

[Bellhorn04]

The pitching staff as almost a whole? Napoli's not old enough to have hit the wall THAT hard. Spare parts like Nava who are out of the roster but contributed to a number of losess, etc.

 

The pitching staff - it's hard for me to say if these guys are underperforming significantly or if this is what they are. I do think your point about them f***ing with Porcello seems to have merit. The others I just don't know.

 

The whole thing really is an enigma, and I'm not saying that to be a smartass.

[User Name]

Again, this is a terribly mismanaged team. So many people underperforming at the same time points to a management problem, and by extension, a GM problem.

[jd98]

Did the coaching staff really try to change Porcello's pitching approach, or is that just speculation? I know his GB% is way down, and that's probably directly responsible for at least 1 run higher ERA, but do people know this is because of coaches messing with him.

[Thunder]

Let's face it, they can not build a pitching staff. They built a very unbalanced team again, and while the offense is not what I expected, it is not that bad, they are 16th in all baseball in wRC+.

 

As I said, Ben and Farrell have to go.

 

You're right. I think many people have overlooked the offense because of the fact that the rotation is terrible and the team as a whole has been so bad. We were expecting the offense to be so good, and that they would bail us out of a bunch of games. The fact that they've been anything less than amazing has deterred a lot of people. We must give them credit though, they're holding their own.

[iortiz]

The pitching staff - it's hard for me to say if these guys are underperforming significantly or if this is what they are. I do think your point about them f***ing with Porcello seems to have merit. The others I just don't know.

 

The whole thing really is an enigma, and I'm not saying that to be a smartass.

 

I do not buy that.

 

I do not think that Farrell and his coaching staff are that stupid in this regard. They gave Porcello 80 M because they liked his approach/profile, right?

 

Listen, PROBABLY (still speculation to me) they tried to make some adjustments to his approach because THAT approach was not working. In fact, after his first 4 starts he allowed 18 runs in 25 IP. Discouraging, if you ask me. Then, in his next 4 starts he earned only 6 Rs in 25.2 IP. Encouraging; seems to me like he made some adjustment and worked out, thus far. Then.. once again, he shitted the bed and he allowed 22 f***ing runs in 4 games. No one can help him.

 

Let's face it, He is a mediocre pitcher. He simply does't have good stuff. The BABIP death is going to tax him time to time making him always inconsistent as always he's been, unless he increases his K/9 or induce weaker contact, but once again, you already paid him... for what they already saw in him (whatever that means) and it is not working. As I said since day 1, He is a No 4, at best No. 3, and these days a No 5-6 and you just gave him 80 M.

 

Whatever the case (changing his approach or not), they SHOULD HAVE WAITED before giving him that extension and see his permanence after a dozen starts or so. Again, this is on Ben, another horrible contract that we have to deal with.

 

Also, I have not read or heard that they changed his approach, it's pure speculation, I think. If there is a link, please share it.

[cp176]

This is kind of a shaky assertion to me though...which particular players are significantly underachieving in a way that is difficult to explain?

 

Pedroia, Bogaerts, Holt and Betts are playing well.

Ortiz and Napoli may just have hit the wall career-wise.

Hanley and Panda's offensive numbers are not that far off career numbers/trends.

Etc.

 

I'm not going to say that I think that John Farrell is one of baseball's top guys by any means. What I will say is that he gets it. He knows that if the team's fate doesn't improve, he is likely gone. I don't know a lot about many things but I do know something about coaching in general. I like how he handles his players. When Miley threw his fit, Farrell did not stand for it. He followed him down the runway and dealt with it. We are privy to very little that happens between him and his players. They seem to be supportive of him and that works for me. Napoli has been miserable - no one could ever have predicted how bad ramirez was going to be in left field - Castillo ( who knew anything about him)all I heard was great praise for the potential of a 28 year old rookie -catching is what it is - Betts has some growing pains but he is coming - Ortiz looks like he is starting the old engine - Everybody knew about the pitching staff. I see no way that this team improves itself by tossing a manager who the players seem to like and want to play for under the bus. Now if you blame him for the players that were brought in then you have a point. If you blame him for this team's poor play you are off track. It is the easy thing to do - fire the manager - everybody does it right. I have seen plenty of coaches that I have not liked and he is not one of them.

[Kimmi]

Kimmi, I always enjoy your posts and I love your attitude. Whatever you do don't get put off by the negativity you're seeing here right now.

 

I've been saying a lot of negative things myself, that's for sure. I like to think of myself as a realist. The fact is that our team is 30 games under .500 since the start of 2014, despite all of our obvious resources.

 

As Sox fans we've never been through anything like us, even us older ones, who have seen some very bad teams, but not ones who had such apparent advantages in payroll and supposed analytical expertise.

 

All of us here want the team to turn it around somehow.

 

When somebody says "I'm a realist", it usually carries with it the implication that the person with an opposing view is not a realist, is delusional, or my favorite, is in La-La Land.

 

I am probably more numbers driven than any other poster here. Believe me, I know where we stand. I am not delusional about our chances of making the playoffs. Knowing that the odds are long, however, is not mutually exclusive with staying positive.

 

I know it's not exactly the same thing, but if we were players on the team instead of fans, would you all be saying the same things? It's time to throw in the towel. There is no hope. Blow this team up. Etc. I certainly hope not.

 

Watching the team I love lose is hard enough. Reading all of the negative comments about them day in and day out is even more heartbreaking.

 

This is not a rant against you Bell. You know I like and respect you.

[Kimmi]

I think the criticism of Farrell is not about the tactical stuff you see necessarily - although things like optimal use of shifts and whatnot deserve scrutiny. But the entire team is underachieving at the same time - the lack of good seasons is so widespread that it is hard to put it all on the players or the GM (who would be accused of landing untalented players).

 

It's not about the tactical decisions. I still believe that the great majority of the blame falls on the players themselves, but when you have widespread underperformances, mental lapses, and lack of fundamentals, you have to question what is going on with Farrell and the other coaches.

[Kimmi]

This is kind of a shaky assertion to me though...which particular players are significantly underachieving in a way that is difficult to explain?

 

Pedroia, Bogaerts, Holt and Betts are playing well.

Ortiz and Napoli may just have hit the wall career-wise.

Hanley and Panda's offensive numbers are not that far off career numbers/trends.

Etc.

 

The offense seems to be coming around. Some of the numbers might not be too far off from career numbers because the offensive numbers in April were not too bad either. However, the offense was horrible in May.

 

Ortiz might be seeing some effects of aging, but based on his batted ball velocity and other peripherals, his OPS should not be nearly 150 points lower than what it was last year. Napoli's batted ball velocity is not bad either. He is also a victim of a .228 BABIP.

 

Take a look at some of the pitching numbers. Porcello, Miley, Kelly, and Masterson are all sporting career worst ERAs. What is up with that?

[Kimmi]

The offense was supposed to be among the top in the league.

 

The defense was supposed to be top 6.

 

The pitching was supposed to be middle of the pack.

 

We are underperforming in all areas.

[cp176]

Personally - just me - I have 0 interest in arguing with you. I am guilty of over estimating the abilities of our players as they have currently performed. Other than a slightly enlarged strike zone' I have nothing to say about Napoli. Ortiz is aging. Betts is young. Did anyone really think that Ramirez would be as bad as he is in the field. I really did not know what to expect from this pitching staff. The notion that they might be middle of the pack made me feel good. They may still dig their way out of the basement but I am sure that Farrell is man enough to take the blame for what has happened. I don't think his players want to see that happen though.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Cherington was reading talksox and answered the question for us.

[cp176]

Cherington was reading talksox and answered the question for us.

 

got to give him credit. Hope things turn around for his sake.

[a700hitter]

Cherington was reading talksox and answered the question for us.

Did Ben make a statement today?

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Did Ben make a statement today?

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/gm-ben-cherington-takes-blame-red-soxs-struggles-230932370--mlb.html

 

ATLANTA (AP) -- Boston Red Sox general manager Ben Cherington said he deserves most of the blame with his club struggling for the second straight year.

 

Entering Wednesday, Boston is 99-129 since winning the 2013 World Series under manager John Farrell.

 

''I'm more responsible than anyone else for that,'' Cherington said, ''so I have to find a way to make that better.''

 

The Red Sox, in last place in the AL East for the second straight season, entered Wednesday 10 games under .500 and eight games behind division-leading Tampa Bay.

 

''The record is the record,'' Cherington said. ''The record is clearly not good enough for where we play. We all know that. My job is to try to dig into every reason for that.''

 

Cherington didn't take questions regarding Farrell's job security or poor player performance, focusing instead on his own job and the state of the franchise.

 

''When you are where we are, there's a lot of reasons for it,'' Cherington said. ''There's no single player that's responsible for that. The only person that's perhaps responsible for a longer list of reasons is me.''

 

''I will certainly make judgments on myself for the overall performance and the team's performance, and that's on me.''

 

Boston snapped a season-high, seven-game losing streak with a 9-4 win Tuesday over the Atlanta Braves. The skid was the Red Sox's longest since they dropped eight straight last Aug. 17-24.

 

Cherington made several big moves in the offseason, signing third baseman Pablo Sandoval and left fielder Hanley Ramirez to contracts totaling over $180 million. He believes both players have assimilated well with their new teammates.

 

''You can feel it when it's there,'' Cherington said. ''When you feel it when it's there, you know there's something to it.''

 

After losing out on trying to re-sign ace Jon Lester, Cherington sought to shore up the rotation by sending trading for right-hander Rick Porcello and left-hander Wade Miley and signing right-hander Justin Masterson.

 

The Red Sox's pitching staff has the second-worst ERA in the majors at 4.52. The starters have a combined 4.92 ERA, but Cherington didn't sound ready to make an immediate move for another arm.

 

''We're not considering anything else right now, but just getting better,'' he said. ''I'm not putting a date on it. We haven't considered anything other than that. I think we're closer to the group where there's a spot for everyone and a role for everyone.''

 

---

 

AP freelance writer Amy Jinkner-Lloyd contributed to this report.

[iortiz]

He sounds like Theo, just before he left Boston. He is not dodging his responsibility. We have to give him that.

[Thunder]

Good job there by Ben. Makes me feel a little better about the scenario, and the future. I would like to see him step down though. I've never liked him.

[a700hitter]

Ben is a standup guy and so was Theo. They have always been willing to take responsibility even when others held them blameless.

[Spudboy]

But what can and what will he do to fix these problems?