Tommy John Surgery for Christian Vasquez

[Gringo]

(According to CBS)

 

If true, it's a very harsh blow. I was really excited to see him make the next jump up. F*CK!

[Dojji]

In other words not only is this year gone, next year is in question.

 

Crap.

 

Fortunately one thing this is unlikely to affect is pop time. That's more to do with the lower body as I understand it. So once he gets out there again he should still be able to get the ball to second in good time so there's at least that. That said, losing that many AB's and having an injury history may force him into a backup role and that just. Plain. Sucks.

[jacksonianmarch]

Next year isn't in question, at least is shouldn't be. Non pitchers usually recover in 8 months. Wieters is an outlier

[a700hitter]

What a burn!!!

[Brown28]

I hope this doesn't mean we rush Swihart up to the majors this year. I'd rather see him develop in AAA. We don't need offence from that spot so let's use Hanigan/whoever and hopefully they can hit a combined .260 and play solid D. I'd be happy with that.

[sk7326]

In other words not only is this year gone, next year is in question.

 

Crap.

 

Fortunately one thing this is unlikely to affect is pop time. That's more to do with the lower body as I understand it. So once he gets out there again he should still be able to get the ball to second in good time so there's at least that. That said, losing that many AB's and having an injury history may force him into a backup role and that just. Plain. Sucks.

 

1. It's not even a death sentence for pitchers

 

2. He's not a pitcher.

 

He is probably gone for this year but next year will be fine. I feel bad for him that he might get Wally Pip'd because of this.

[jacksonianmarch]

He won't be Wally Pipp'd, at least for now. The sox are apparently thinking of carrying Swihart as the backup? That sounds really dumb. Young catchers need reps, and Swihart hasn't even gotten anything at AAA to this point, has he? He needs to play every day, handle the grind, learn to call the game, etc etc etc. I think only the higher of homers thought Vasquez was going to be a long term solution at C. I always thought the sox would have a veteran catcher this year as a crutch for Vasquez. Now the veteran will be the starter and the sox will likely have another veteran be the backup. Next year, you can sign another defense first starter, have Vasquez play for a bit and bring up Swihart when he is ready. There is absolutely no point to rush a catcher. They need probably the most time in the minors of all positions to really learn it to a degree to where they'll be successful long term

[Thunder]

He won't be Wally Pipp'd, at least for now. The sox are apparently thinking of carrying Swihart as the backup? That sounds really dumb. Young catchers need reps, and Swihart hasn't even gotten anything at AAA to this point, has he? He needs to play every day, handle the grind, learn to call the game, etc etc etc. I think only the higher of homers thought Vasquez was going to be a long term solution at C. I always thought the sox would have a veteran catcher this year as a crutch for Vasquez. Now the veteran will be the starter and the sox will likely have another veteran be the backup. Next year, you can sign another defense first starter, have Vasquez play for a bit and bring up Swihart when he is ready. There is absolutely no point to rush a catcher. They need probably the most time in the minors of all positions to really learn it to a degree to where they'll be successful long term

 

It's worth the risk to bring Swihart up now, even if it is early. The way you're looking at it, they'll be two veteran catchers on the team. Two catchers who (presumably, since someone else would be picked up) are decent offensively, decent defensively, but have a hard time throwing out guys at 2nd. I see this as a perfect opportunity for Swihart to develop. He doesn't need to play everyday, as Hanigan is a viable option to play 3-4 times a week, or more, and can really show Swihart how to work with this shaky rotation that we got going.

[User Name]

He won't be Wally Pipp'd, at least for now. The sox are apparently thinking of carrying Swihart as the backup? That sounds really dumb. Young catchers need reps, and Swihart hasn't even gotten anything at AAA to this point, has he? He needs to play every day, handle the grind, learn to call the game, etc etc etc. I think only the higher of homers thought Vasquez was going to be a long term solution at C. I always thought the sox would have a veteran catcher this year as a crutch for Vasquez. Now the veteran will be the starter and the sox will likely have another veteran be the backup. Next year, you can sign another defense first starter, have Vasquez play for a bit and bring up Swihart when he is ready. There is absolutely no point to rush a catcher. They need probably the most time in the minors of all positions to really learn it to a degree to where they'll be successful long term

 

One of those rare ocassions when you acttually make perfect sense.

[bostopz]

Crap! Crap! Crap!!

 

This is an enormous enormous loss.

 

Right now I predict 4th place.

 

Need to make some moves.

[Spitball]

At this point, I am grateful for the acquisition of Hanigan. He might not be the same player he was a couple of years ago, but in seven years with Cincinnati, he offensively slashed .262/.359/.343. He was also probably the best defensive catcher in the National League. The Sox have a decent replacement, and the world will not crumble...until he proves he can't handle the job.

[bostopz]

At this point, I am grateful for the acquisition of Hanigan. He might not be the same player he was a couple of years ago, but in seven years with Cincinnati, he offensively slashed .262/.359/.343. He was also probably the best defensive catcher in the National League. The Sox have a decent replacement, and the world will not crumble...until he proves he can't handle the job.

 

He's 34 yo. The last TWO years he hit .198 and .218. Last year his cs% was bad. Not sure about the rest but I seriously doubt if he was that good - he would have been slated for a backup. Which he would have been with Sox. I'm not grateful that we have a below average overall catcher slated to be our prime catcher. That's not good.

[jacksonianmarch]

Hanigan is capable for now. There will be other veterans out there, especially once 25 man rosters are finalized next week. My assumption is that a Jose Molina type will be on the way to Boston. Vasquez wasn't an offensive catcher at all, and he profiled as a D first starter with limited offensive upside or a solid backup. Those guys, especially as rookies, aren't difficult to replace.

[Bellhorn04]

Sox have acquired 26-year old catcher Sandy Leon from Washington. Can't hit but strong defensively, threw out 45% of base stealers in minors.

[a700hitter]

Crap! Crap! Crap!!

 

This is an enormous enormous loss.

 

Right now I predict 4th place.

 

Need to make some moves.

Mediocre staff and a journeymen and bush leaguer at catcher does not bode well for run prevention.

[a700hitter]

Mediocre staff and a journeymen and bush leaguer at catcher does not bode well for run prevention.

 

Technically, Hannigan is not a journeyman. He is just past his prime, and he was never that good even in his prime.

[jonnylongfella]

Morning, all! Long time visitor, decided to get posting.

 

A bit of foreshadowing here that we were all afraid of....

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/03/red-sox-to-acquire-sandy-leon-from-nationals.html

 

This likely confirms that Vasquez is at least out for a signficant period of time, but I like the move since Leon has always had a good track record of being a very good defensive catcher. A similar type of replacement, and will allow us to get Swihart some more seasoning in the minors and not rush him up. I am pretty sure Leon is out of options, so unless we try to sneak him through waivers to place in AAA, it's likely he breaks camp as the backup for Hannigan.

Edited March 30, 2015 by jonnylongfella

[BSN07]

Sucks for Vasquez. He should be back next year tho.

 

I like the Leon pick up. He's exactly what they need. Defensive first and can be easily dumped if the team needs to do something else. I'd rather they not rush Swihart but I'm not gonna be surprised if they have to call him up at some point this season.

[sk7326]

Mediocre staff and a journeymen and bush leaguer at catcher does not bode well for run prevention.

 

No, although the above average to excellent defense at 7 of the 8 positions does.

[Spudboy]

No, although the above average to excellent defense at 7 of the 8 positions does.

 

Where do you see that?

[sk7326]

Where do you see that?

 

Bogaerts is the only defender who should not project as at least above average positionally (and he could be above average, but he has some catching up to do). Ramirez of course is harder to predict, since a lot of it is just mastering the wall. Crawford was the league's best defensive LF, and was a catastrophe in Boston (and now back to fine in LA). If Victorino is healthy, right field is clearly elite - and if it's Castillo, the early evidence is promising.

 

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/mlb-2015-al-east-preview-red-sox-blue-jays-orioles-rays-yankees/

 

Now with Vasquez out, the framing and throwing might go down a bit - but the larger point still holds. The team is well equipped to catch the ball, if the pitchers keep it in the yard.

[a700hitter]

Betts projects above average in the OF? He is an OF convert with a weak arm. How much data is there on Castillo to make a projection on him? The only OF who is unquestionably an above average fielder. Napoili is above average, but he is not Mark Texeira or Keith Hernandez. No one is ging to mistake Panda for Brooks Robinson. There are just not enough high quality gloves to overcome the mediocre pitching and so-so and inexperienced catching.

[sk7326]

Betts projects above average in the OF? He is an OF convert with a weak arm. How much data is there on Castillo to make a projection on him? The only OF who is unquestionably an above average fielder. Napoili is above average, but he is not Mark Texeira or Keith Hernandez. No one is ging to mistake Panda for Brooks Robinson. There are just not enough high quality gloves to overcome the mediocre pitching and so-so and inexperienced catching.

 

Defensive metrics can have a blind sport for throwing arms - at the same time a throwing arm in center field is more luxury than mandatory. Bradley's is extraordinary. Betts is nothing special clearly but nothing awful. Tracking balls > throwing into the infield. With young guys you have to rely on scouting outcomes - but nothing that has been written on that end about Castillo says he won't be anything but solid in the outfield. Betts in his limited exposure was fine metrically, and every projection of consequence (Zips-Steamer) has him being above average also.

 

I think the projected optimism for them defensively is warranted. It won't cure all the flaws with the rotation, but it will help the run prevention operation.

[Bellhorn04]

There are just not enough high quality gloves to overcome the mediocre pitching and so-so and inexperienced catching.

 

Based on what exactly do you think Hanigan and Leon won't be good in the run prevention area?

[Palodios]

The Red Sox replaced an excellent defensive catcher who can't hit with a solid defensive catcher who can't hit.

 

The Red Sox's best prospect is a solid defensive catcher who CAN hit.

 

This one hurts, but there are certainly worse players to lose.

[a700hitter]

Based on what exactly do you think Hanigan and Leon won't be good in the run prevention area?

Based on what do you think they will be good at it? One guy is a bush leaguer that we know little about and he knows less about our staff. The other guy is 34 and declining. What are you hanging you hat on?

[Palodios]

Based on what do you think they will be good at it? One guy is a bush leaguer that we know little about and he knows less about our staff.

 

 

Atleast we're giving him a full week to learn a pitching staff than to throw him into the fire immediately. He's still going to be way behind, but its better than nothing.

[Brown28]

This doesn't change anything about how I feel about the season. The blueprint has clearly "been win with offence" since the Panda/Hanley signings. Losing Vazquez doesn't hurt the offence. Will the Sox give up more runs? Probably. But they were gonna give up a hell of a lot anyway. The question is still "Can the offence score enough to compensate for a below-average rotation?" The answer to that question is also the answer to the question of "Will the Sox contend this year?".

[sk7326]

This doesn't change anything about how I feel about the season. The blueprint has clearly "been win with offence" since the Panda/Hanley signings. Losing Vazquez doesn't hurt the offence. Will the Sox give up more runs? Probably. But they were gonna give up a hell of a lot anyway. The question is still "Can the offence score enough to compensate for a below-average rotation?" The answer to that question is also the answer to the question of "Will the Sox contend this year?".

 

It also can help provide a natural experiment to one of the biggest research questions about baseball - how much does pitching matter? Obviously a lot - more than any other individual position - but how much credit do you give pitchers for their role in preventing runs. We have a rotation of meh pitchers on some level, but backed by a team that should be pretty good at the fielding game. The latter seemed to be a crucial component of Kansas City's team last year. If the pitchers can keep the ball in play, can the defense help fill in the gap and how much so?

[Bellhorn04]

Based on what do you think they will be good at it? One guy is a bush leaguer that we know little about and he knows less about our staff. The other guy is 34 and declining. What are you hanging you hat on?

 

Everything I've read about Hanigan says he's a very good to excellent defensive catcher. Where do you get that he's declining defensively? Do you have any facts or quotes on that?