JBJ's Spring

[Brown28]

Edes wrote about it today so I thought I'd bring it up, the kid is eating this spring. He's being overshadowed by Betts and probably won't sniff the opening day roster but this has gotta be good for trade purposes, right? Convince some team (Philly) that his bat is finally coming and he's already Gold Glove caliber. Just want to hear what you guys think about it and whether or not spring stats have any impact on his trade value.

[sk7326]

Doesn't hurt - but I think the industry view on him is clear and hasn't really changed. He is a special defensive player - and what it comes down to is whether you think he can hit at the big league level, or is he doomed to be an extra guy. He's not going to do anything to address that here. He can hit AAA pitching and he can hit in the Spring.

 

I do think the industry view on him is as divided as ever- but on the bright side that means there are believers. But will the believers give the Red Sox something approaching 75 cents on the dollar in a "sell low" context? I don't know. I have not given up on him - the batting eye is there, he just needs to stop pretending he's Mike Napoli. But clearly the outfield situation here has crowded him out. I'd definitely kick the tires on him if I were someone else, but that was true before the spring too.

[Kimmi]

I would not sell low on JBJ if I were the FO. His defense is worth his weight in gold, and by all accounts, he looks a lot better at the plate. He's never going to be known as an offensive CFer, but if he can hit decently, he will be a valuable player. If the Sox are not given an offer that they are happy with, then I'd be fine stashing him in AAA for another season. In other words, don't trade him just for the sake of trading him because he is "expendable".

[Brown28]

I would not sell low on JBJ if I were the FO. His defense is worth his weight in gold, and by all accounts, he looks a lot better at the plate. He's never going to be known as an offensive CFer, but if he can hit decently, he will be a valuable player. If the Sox are not given an offer that they are happy with, then I'd be fine stashing him in AAA for another season. In other words, don't trade him just for the sake of trading him because he is "expendable".

 

This is my feeling as well. I don't mind him sitting in AAA, at least for a few months. Hanley is an injury risk and who knows if Victorino will ever get healthy or what he'll contribute if/when he does. The Sox may be glad to have the OF depth come June/July. I am however, worried that they panic trade JBJ if they get a decent offer to try and free up AB's for Rusney and quiet the fanbase about the starting rotation.

[cp176]

If he has has shortened his stroke and has started to become a contact hitter, he could still be outstanding not just good. He is clearly the best outfielder the Sox have already. I am not ready to see this guy traded. He still could be special and not simply as trade bait. One more year.

[Kimmi]

This is my feeling as well. I don't mind him sitting in AAA, at least for a few months. Hanley is an injury risk and who knows if Victorino will ever get healthy or what he'll contribute if/when he does. The Sox may be glad to have the OF depth come June/July. I am however, worried that they panic trade JBJ if they get a decent offer to try and free up AB's for Rusney and quiet the fanbase about the starting rotation.

 

 

One thing that the team was lacking last year was depth. You're absolutely right that Hanley and Victorino are both injury risks, and JBJ might well be needed come midseason. I understand that there will likely be a need to trade for a pitcher before the deadline. I just want the trade to make sense for the Sox and not be a trade to appease the fanbase or to get rid of excess parts.

[Spudboy]

I would not sell low on JBJ if I were the FO. His defense is worth his weight in gold, and by all accounts, he looks a lot better at the plate. He's never going to be known as an offensive CFer, but if he can hit decently, he will be a valuable player. If the Sox are not given an offer that they are happy with, then I'd be fine stashing him in AAA for another season. In other words, don't trade him just for the sake of trading him because he is "expendable".

 

I'm with you on everything you said Kimmi except for the bolded words. I would rephrase it thusly! "He may not ever become an offensive Cfer".

 

None of us really know. Except for Fred!

[Spudboy]

If he has has shortened his stroke and has started to become a contact hitter, he could still be outstanding not just good. He is clearly the best outfielder the Sox have already. I am not ready to see this guy traded. He still could be special and not simply as trade bait. One more year.

 

I'm down with this too!

 

Depth is good! Especially when a player is as adept at one aspect of his game as this kid.

 

But he is my binky so keep that in mind!

[Spudboy]

One thing that the team was lacking last year was depth. You're absolutely right that Hanley and Victorino are both injury risks, and JBJ might well be needed come midseason. I understand that there will likely be a need to trade for a pitcher before the deadline. I just want the trade to make sense for the Sox and not be a trade to appease the fanbase or to get rid of excess parts.

 

AND, we still have no clear idea who Craig and Castillo will turn out to be. Stashing a talent like JBJ is a good idea unless the Sox get a good deal on a more glaring need.

[sk7326]

I would not sell low on JBJ if I were the FO. His defense is worth his weight in gold, and by all accounts, he looks a lot better at the plate. He's never going to be known as an offensive CFer, but if he can hit decently, he will be a valuable player. If the Sox are not given an offer that they are happy with, then I'd be fine stashing him in AAA for another season. In other words, don't trade him just for the sake of trading him because he is "expendable".

 

Oh I'd want at a minimum a projectable lottery ticket for Bradley if I deal him. You know, raw, toolsy guy in Single A - that type.

 

If Bradley focused on contact and gap power and less on a long homerun swing, the batting eye is still excellent. A .270/.330 sort of slash is not crazy to expect, and that combined with a glove like his is an above average starter to maybe fringy All-Star. He and Castillo will start the season at AAA - the contractual and roster reality more or less dictate it.

[Brown28]

Oh I'd want at a minimum a projectable lottery ticket for Bradley if I deal him. You know, raw, toolsy guy in Single A - that type.

 

If Bradley focused on contact and gap power and less on a long homerun swing, the batting eye is still excellent. A .270/.330 sort of slash is not crazy to expect, and that combined with a glove like his is an above average starter to maybe fringy All-Star. He and Castillo will start the season at AAA - the contractual and roster reality more or less dictate it.

 

The Rusney situation bothers me more than JBJ. He's 27. The guy has to get major league AB's asap. Betts and Hanley are obviously everyday guys and Nava is gonna be the 4th outfielder because he's a lefty. So that leaves RF which Farrell has said is Victorino's when healthy. Seems like Rusney is a very expensive 5th outfielder.

[sk7326]

The Rusney situation bothers me more than JBJ. He's 27. The guy has to get major league AB's asap. Betts and Hanley are obviously everyday guys and Nava is gonna be the 4th outfielder because he's a lefty. So that leaves RF which Farrell has said is Victorino's when healthy. Seems like Rusney is a very expensive 5th outfielder.

 

I don't think any condition is permanent here. But Castillo just has not played a lot of baseball lately, period. MLB or not, he has just not faced a lot of guys who are actually trying to get him out. Betts and he and the only guys (Bradley too, but his fate is known) who have minor league options. Assuming you don't want to cut one of the other guys (although if you want to cut Victorino, you shouldn't hesitate - last year, sunk cost sort of think), the moves to start the season are limited. Now, if the team carries 11 pitchers, then a spot opens up. I would be genuinely surprised if they started the season with 11 pitchers given the need to ramp up guy's stamina and such. And if they carry 11 pitchers, in some sense Bradley makes more sense to call up than Castillo. Castillo needs the ABs more, and Bradley makes more sense as a defensive substitute.

[Palodios]

The Red Sox won't sell low on Bradley. He is one batting adjustment away from being a 2-3 WAR player at low cost. He also has options. Denard Span might be looking for a 60 million dollar contract next year-- if Bradley's offense turns around, many teams would prefer a cheap 25 year old with a similar skillset.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't think any condition is permanent here. But Castillo just has not played a lot of baseball lately, period. MLB or not, he has just not faced a lot of guys who are actually trying to get him out. Betts and he and the only guys (Bradley too, but his fate is known) who have minor league options. Assuming you don't want to cut one of the other guys (although if you want to cut Victorino, you shouldn't hesitate - last year, sunk cost sort of think), the moves to start the season are limited.

 

You'd think that if Victorino is reasonably healthy and the Red Sox wanted to move him, they could find somebody who would take him if the Sox pay a chunk of the $13 million.

[seabeachfred]

I don't think any condition is permanent here. But Castillo just has not played a lot of baseball lately, period. MLB or not, he has just not faced a lot of guys who are actually trying to get him out. Betts and he and the only guys (Bradley too, but his fate is known) who have minor league options. Assuming you don't want to cut one of the other guys (although if you want to cut Victorino, you shouldn't hesitate - last year, sunk cost sort of think), the moves to start the season are limited. Now, if the team carries 11 pitchers, then a spot opens up. I would be genuinely surprised if they started the season with 11 pitchers given the need to ramp up guy's stamina and such. And if they carry 11 pitchers, in some sense Bradley makes more sense to call up than Castillo. Castillo needs the ABs more, and Bradley makes more sense as a defensive substitute.

 

You wonder if the Rusney signing was a panic move of sorts in order to get their offense in order. He may be a very expensive extra outfielder or he may tear up the league. Where I do disagree with some of my colleagues is this desire to hold onto everybody. We have to thin that outfield out, otherwise we will have angry players on the bench, an angry player or two in the minors and the possibility of a fractured clubhouse. Of course, too, we know Hanley is injury prone and so is Vic and that muddles things up as well. All I can really say is that somehow Cherington has to make the right decisions and hope when it all said and done that he did. This is still not an easy minefield to navigate for him but somehow he must do it.

[Brown28]

You'd think that if Victorino is reasonably healthy and the Red Sox wanted to move him, they could find somebody who would take him if the Sox pay a chunk of the $13 million.

 

Of all the outfield pieces, Victorino is the one I'd like to see moved the most. Even if the Sox pay part of that contract out. I just don't feel like he's got much left. I appreciate everything he did, helping win a title and all but I think it's time to move on. Farrell saying he has the RF job locked down makes no sense to me.

[sk7326]

Of all the outfield pieces, Victorino is the one I'd like to see moved the most. Even if the Sox pay part of that contract out. I just don't feel like he's got much left. I appreciate everything he did, helping win a title and all but I think it's time to move on. Farrell saying he has the RF job locked down makes no sense to me.

 

I think he said it for the vets and to not needlessly harm Vic's value. Guys don't want injury to drive job loss - so you have to at least go with the program a little politically. If it scores some clubhouse points - good. I suspect the brass is much more unsentimental about it. And besides, the contract thing kicks in too - this is kind of the path of least resistance until the glut gets solved via trade or injury.

[cp176]

If he is healthy (big if), which he says he is, I think that he gets the right field job because he is better than the rest of the gang that he is competing against. I really would hate to see the Sox just give him away and eat some contract at the same time. He has one year left. With just one year to go, it's probably safe to say that he won't be back but for right now he is the best right fielder they have.

[Palodios]

I think Felgar and Maz's MookGate is ridiculous.

 

I also am glad to have found a reason to use the term "Mookgate".

[cp176]

I think Felgar and Maz's MookGate is ridiculous.

 

I also am glad to have found a reason to use the term "Mookgate".

 

If we are talking about the same thing, I couldn't agree more. Creating a story where there is no story is a common practice these days. Trying to paint Victorino as a malcontent! That I am not going to buy.

[Brown28]

In related news, Rusney went deep again today. At the very least, Pawsox should be excited.

[seabeachfred]

In related news, Rusney went deep again today. At the very least, Pawsox should be excited.

 

On another thread I made reference to the fact that we have a lot of outfielders for only three spots----obviously the front office has to make a couple of decisions in that area and are trying to hold off as long as possible. Personally I think that Bradley's solid spring has made him an attractive trade prospect with Atlanta interested and most likely a couple of others now. Of course, will Hanley stay in one piece, is Victorino ready to go all out? Those two questions need to be answered and we won't know that until the real blows are thrown in about ten days. Castillo was signed IMHO because the team felt that it was possible Bradley was not going to be a hitter and was stubborn to listen to coaching. If JBjr had a solid year last season I don't think they would have signed Rusney, though that is only my opinion.

[Ogden]

If we are talking about the same thing, I couldn't agree more. Creating a story where there is no story is a common practice these days. Trying to paint Victorino as a malcontent! That I am not going to buy.

 

 

Victorino's response was foolish. I believe the gist of what they are saying - that he wants less OF competition - but admittedly they are trying to maximize a story. Isn't that what writers and talk shows do? That's why I try not to listen too much.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Ogden

[sk7326]

In related news, Rusney went deep again today. At the very least, Pawsox should be excited.

 

hey i'm excited. but he could use more reps

[Kimmi]

AND, we still have no clear idea who Craig and Castillo will turn out to be. Stashing a talent like JBJ is a good idea unless the Sox get a good deal on a more glaring need.

 

 

As of now, we really don't know what our glaring need, if any, will be. That's another reason I would hold off on making any trades right now. It might turn that we don't need another starting pitcher. I don't think that will be the case, but we could be pleasantly surprised by the pitchers we already have, including the one who are starting the season in AAA.

 

I think the FO is wanting more and more to keep Craig around. Or maybe that's just me. LOL

[iortiz]

I would not sell low on JBJ if I were the FO. His defense is worth his weight in gold, and by all accounts, he looks a lot better at the plate. He's never going to be known as an offensive CFer, but if he can hit decently, he will be a valuable player. If the Sox are not given an offer that they are happy with, then I'd be fine stashing him in AAA for another season. In other words, don't trade him just for the sake of trading him because he is "expendable".

I like this. I'm not ready to see him walk.. not just yet.

[Kimmi]

Oh I'd want at a minimum a projectable lottery ticket for Bradley if I deal him. You know, raw, toolsy guy in Single A - that type.

 

If Bradley focused on contact and gap power and less on a long homerun swing, the batting eye is still excellent. A .270/.330 sort of slash is not crazy to expect, and that combined with a glove like his is an above average starter to maybe fringy All-Star. He and Castillo will start the season at AAA - the contractual and roster reality more or less dictate it.

 

 

I'm hoping that JBJ was humbled by his struggles last year, and that he has taken the coaches advice to heart. From what I've read this spring, he has. I am big on defense, so I would love to see him make it as our starting CF next year.

 

It sounds like Victorino is healthy, but that he will have to be "handled" somewhat delicately. Farrell was trying to figure out how often Victorino could play before he needed a day off. It sounds like the 4th OF will get more than the average number of ABs.

[Kimmi]

The Rusney situation bothers me more than JBJ. He's 27. The guy has to get major league AB's asap. Betts and Hanley are obviously everyday guys and Nava is gonna be the 4th outfielder because he's a lefty. So that leaves RF which Farrell has said is Victorino's when healthy. Seems like Rusney is a very expensive 5th outfielder.

 

 

He does seem like an expensive 5th outfielder. At the time that he was signed, however, the Sox did not know how well Betts would end up playing, and they also didn't know whether Victorino would come back healthy this year. Castillo may or may not get his fair share of playing time in the bigs this year (I'm guessing he will), but Victorino will be gone next year, and Castillo should be a very good and fairly inexpensive OFer for several years.

[Ogden]

I'm hoping that JBJ was humbled by his struggles last year, and that he has taken the coaches advice to heart. From what I've read this spring, he has. I am big on defense, so I would love to see him make it as our starting CF next year.

 

It sounds like Victorino is healthy, but that he will have to be "handled" somewhat delicately. Farrell was trying to figure out how often Victorino could play before he needed a day off. It sounds like the 4th OF will get more than the average number of ABs.

 

 

I think that translates to him not being healthy. One wrong twist, check swing, or sprint to first base and he could be in trouble. That's why he isn't hitting lefty ... it hurts.

[Ogden]

Castillo played RF with Mookie and JBJ in CF today which is encouraging.