Is the actual rotation the worst in the last 10 Y?

[mvp 78]

Four months ago, the playoffs were still going on.

[a700hitter]

Shields to San Diego for 75 M or something. Damn! Is it really a bad contract? He's 33 and all but this sounds like a bargain to me.

 

Anyways, 4 months ago, we were told to wait and be patience since it was too early and we had to trust and let the FO work because they were likely going to land at least one No. 1. The time ran and Cherrys signed a combo full of ?s and said that he felt comfortable with the actual rotation going forward and some thought that it was BS since it was simply part of his PR strategy or something. Then the speech changed and some drank that kool aid and began to make to idea that this rotation was good enough since it has a huge potential and/or the ALE pitching is as mediocre as ours and that we could easily grab an ace in the trade deadline if needed. Once again we were told to be patience, fine.

 

Now that we are certain of how we're are moving forward, Hopefully Cherry's baby work out because this is the worst rotation I've ever seen for my Red Sox on paper entering into a new season.

 

When the off season started, it was pretty much a uniform sentiment that we should obtain a #1 and 2. Then after acquiring a couple of mid to bottom of the rotation guys, everyone was hoping for a #1 or 2. As more time passed and Ben repeatededly said that he was comfortable with our rotation, people realized that there would be no big arm added. To me this is a disappointing outcome. Others have changed their position and have convinced themselves that Cherries did the right thing. Part of the rationalization to concur in this approach is to convince ourselves that we have in-season flexibility to improve the staff, if needed. I have no confidence that we will make any significant in season moves for the rotation.

Edited February 9, 2015 by a700hitter
typo

[iortiz]

When the off season started, it was pretty much a uniform sentiment that we should obtain a #1 and 2. Then after acquiring a couple of mid to bottom of the rotation guys, everyone was hoping for a #1 or 2. As more time passed and Ben repeatededly said that he was comfortable with our rotation, people realized that there would be no big arm added. To me this is a disappointing outcome. Others have changed their position and have convinced themselves that Cherries did the right thing. Part of the rationalization to concur in this approach is to convince ourselves that we have in-season flexibility to improve the staff, if needed. I have no confidence that we will make any significant in seaon moves for the rotation.

 

We better start the first couple of months solid, otherwise a lot of pressure is going to be out there and I'm not sure if our young squad will be capable to handle it.

[sk7326]

Shields to San Diego for 75 M or something. Damn! Is it really a bad contract? He's 33 and all but this sounds like a bargain to me.

 

Anyways, 4 months ago, we were told to wait and be patience since it was too early and we had to trust and let the FO work because they were likely going to land at least one No. 1. The time ran and Cherrys signed a combo full of ?s and said that he felt comfortable with the actual rotation going forward and some thought that it was pure BS since it was simply part of his PR strategy or something. Then the speech changed and some drank that kool aid and began to make to the idea that this rotation was good enough since it has a huge potential and/or the ALE pitching is as mediocre as ours and that we could easily grab an ace in the trade deadline if needed. Once again we were told to be patience, fine.

 

Now that we are certain of how we are moving forward, Hopefully Cherry's baby work out because this is the worst rotation I've ever seen for my Red Sox on paper entering into a new season.

 

Note that no team which played in a hitter-friendly environment wanted to pay him. I don't want to appeal to authority (you know, say they know better than us - which is a copout), but it is instructive that Team Petco was the one that landed him. Shields is going to have a very good season superficially, maybe more than that. But Shields has consistently pitched in places where his stuff played up. The Yankees, the Red Sox, the Reds, and others were all teams with a job opening - yet none of them bit.

 

It's hard to find premium starting pitching - and Shields was not it. The market will reveal itself in late May I think as teams start to have to make the "in or out" decisions. For Boston particularly, Allen Craig's rebound is particularly important. If he is a reasonable facsimile of the 2013 version, it means the team is flush with good contracts and prospect depth to be able to solve the pitching thing. Given how modest the cost for Lester and Price turned out to be (and Price came with an extra year of control!!!) the price to actually get Cueto (for instance) could be surprising - if the Reds fall out of the chase.

[iortiz]

Note that no team which played in a hitter-friendly environment wanted to pay him. I don't want to appeal to authority (you know, say they know better than us - which is a copout), but it is instructive that Team Petco was the one that landed him. Shields is going to have a very good season superficially, maybe more than that. But Shields has consistently pitched in places where his stuff played up. The Yankees, the Red Sox, the Reds, and others were all teams with a job opening - yet none of them bit.

 

It's hard to find premium starting pitching - and Shields was not it. The market will reveal itself in late May I think as teams start to have to make the "in or out" decisions. For Boston particularly, Allen Craig's rebound is particularly important. If he is a reasonable facsimile of the 2013 version, it means the team is flush with good contracts and prospect depth to be able to solve the pitching thing. Given how modest the cost for Lester and Price turned out to be (and Price came with an extra year of control!!!) the price to actually get Cueto (for instance) could be surprising - if the Reds fall out of the chase.

Well, we will never know how it would have worked out for us and while what you are saying is probably true, I still see Shields 2 or 3 steps ahead of any of our current arms.

Edited February 9, 2015 by iortiz

[a700hitter]

Well, we will never know how it would have worked out for us and while what you are saying is probably true, I see Shields 2 or 3 steps ahead of any of our current arms.

 

There is no denying that he would have been a major improvement to our staff, for just a couple of million more than their ridiculous initial offer to Lester. Both in my opinion will have bug seasons.

[cp176]

Note that no team which played in a hitter-friendly environment wanted to pay him. I don't want to appeal to authority (you know, say they know better than us - which is a copout), but it is instructive that Team Petco was the one that landed him. Shields is going to have a very good season superficially, maybe more than that. But Shields has consistently pitched in places where his stuff played up. The Yankees, the Red Sox, the Reds, and others were all teams with a job opening - yet none of them bit.

 

It's hard to find premium starting pitching - and Shields was not it. The market will reveal itself in late May I think as teams start to have to make the "in or out" decisions. For Boston particularly, Allen Craig's rebound is particularly important. If he is a reasonable facsimile of the 2013 version, it means the team is flush with good contracts and prospect depth to be able to solve the pitching thing. Given how modest the cost for Lester and Price turned out to be (and Price came with an extra year of control!!!) the price to actually get Cueto (for instance) could be surprising - if the Reds fall out of the chase.

 

What you say here makes sense to me. I hope that you are right. It makes me think that the possibility of a different plan as opposed to going it with what we got could be in the works beind the scenes.

[sk7326]

What you say here makes sense to me. I hope that you are right. It makes me think that the possibility of a different plan as opposed to going it with what we got could be in the works beind the scenes.

 

Using my best Wallace Shawn voice, it's inconceivable that the Red Sox will stand pat with this rotation. It is also inconceivable that they would publicly acknowledge it, fess up their strategy and undercut the starters they do have. Every GM/coach says "I'm happy with our guys", it's right there with "I can't believe he was at this draft position". They didn't gather all of these "good contract outfielders" to play them little league style.

[cp176]

Using my best Wallace Shawn voice, it's inconceivable that the Red Sox will stand pat with this rotation. It is also inconceivable that they would publicly acknowledge it, fess up their strategy and undercut the starters they do have. Every GM/coach says "I'm happy with our guys", it's right there with "I can't believe he was at this draft position". They didn't gather all of these "good contract outfielders" to play them little league style.

 

What? you don't think that they will all get a participation trophy - maybe even a coach's award? I am with you on your line of reason. There has to be a plan and it has to include much more than what has already been done.

[Kimmi]

Shields to San Diego for 75 M or something. Damn! Is it really a bad contract? He's 33 and all but this sounds like a bargain to me.

 

Anyways, 4 months ago, we were told to wait and be patience since it was too early and we had to trust and let the FO work because they were likely going to land at least one No. 1. The time ran and Cherrys signed a combo full of ?s and said that he felt comfortable with the actual rotation going forward and some thought that it was pure BS since it was simply part of his PR strategy or something. Then the speech changed and some drank that kool aid and began to make to the idea that this rotation was good enough since it has a huge potential and/or the ALE pitching is as mediocre as ours and that we could easily grab an ace in the trade deadline if needed. Once again we were told to be patience, fine.

 

Now that we are certain of how we are moving forward, Hopefully Cherry's baby work out because this is the worst rotation I've ever seen for my Red Sox on paper entering into a new season.

 

 

I think it's a reasonable contract, and I'm wondering why the Sox were not in on that. They obviously have there reasons, beyond money, for not wanting to sign him. I think Ben did a good job of rebuilding our rotation, minus that #1 guy. I have stated before that even though it would be nice to have added another starter, the Sox did not need to add one. I am okay with the rotation as is. And yes, I love Kool-Aid.

[Kimmi]

Using my best Wallace Shawn voice, it's inconceivable that the Red Sox will stand pat with this rotation. It is also inconceivable that they would publicly acknowledge it, fess up their strategy and undercut the starters they do have. Every GM/coach says "I'm happy with our guys", it's right there with "I can't believe he was at this draft position". They didn't gather all of these "good contract outfielders" to play them little league style.

 

 

SK, I know I've told you before that I really enjoy your posts. You are a voice of reason and logic.

[iortiz]

I think it's a reasonable contract, and I'm wondering why the Sox were not in on that. They obviously have there reasons, beyond money, for not wanting to sign him. I think Ben did a good job of rebuilding our rotation, minus that #1 guy. I have stated before that even though it would be nice to have added another starter, the Sox did not need to add one. I am okay with the rotation as is. And yes, I love Kool-Aid.

 

haha It's oks Kim but hopefully it doesn't cause u a stomachache like it did to me last year.

[Kimmi]

haha It's oks Kim but hopefully it doesn't cause u a stomachache like it did to me last year.

 

 

LOL, I don't know if it's the Kool-Aid or not, but if the team plays like they did last year, I'm guaranteed to have a stomach ache.

[seabeachfred]

I think it's a reasonable contract, and I'm wondering why the Sox were not in on that. They obviously have there reasons, beyond money, for not wanting to sign him. I think Ben did a good job of rebuilding our rotation, minus that #1 guy. I have stated before that even though it would be nice to have added another starter, the Sox did not need to add one. I am okay with the rotation as is. And yes, I love Kool-Aid.

 

Just a pre warning Kimmi. I was one like iortiz, 700 Hitter and others who did not drink the Kool Aid and believe that a pitiful mistake was made by Cherington in not getting us a No. 1 and No. 2 pitcher. I do not think he did a good job at all of rebuilding the rotation; it is potentially the worst one in the division. Now if all goes well and we take the AL East I will gladly give a mea culpa and praise the FO for its prescience in this matter. OTOH, if this thing flops as it could I will feel free to hammer away at Cherington and his minions and I will do so with great prejudice, and maybe even at you and those who might stubbornly refuse to admit they made a bad mistake.

[cp176]

Just a pre warning Kimmi. I was one like iortiz, 700 Hitter and others who did not drink the Kool Aid and believe that a pitiful mistake was made by Cherington in not getting us a No. 1 and No. 2 pitcher. I do not think he did a good job at all of rebuilding the rotation; it is potentially the worst one in the division. Now if all goes well and we take the AL East I will gladly give a mea culpa and praise the FO for its prescience in this matter. OTOH, if this thing flops as it could I will feel free to hammer away at Cherington and his minions and I will do so with great prejudice, and maybe even at you and those who might stubbornly refuse to admit they made a bad mistake.

 

An honest man. No ******** - tell it like you think it is. I might not always agree with what you say, but I will always respect it and think about it. Too many pretenders in the world today.

[mvp 78]

Great, so you're preemptively planning on hammering other posters. Great! No wonder everyone gets along so well.

[Kimmi]

Just a pre warning Kimmi. I was one like iortiz, 700 Hitter and others who did not drink the Kool Aid and believe that a pitiful mistake was made by Cherington in not getting us a No. 1 and No. 2 pitcher. I do not think he did a good job at all of rebuilding the rotation; it is potentially the worst one in the division. Now if all goes well and we take the AL East I will gladly give a mea culpa and praise the FO for its prescience in this matter. OTOH, if this thing flops as it could I will feel free to hammer away at Cherington and his minions and I will do so with great prejudice, and maybe even at you and those who might stubbornly refuse to admit they made a bad mistake.

 

 

Thanks for the pre-warning Fred, but I already know you well enough to know what to expect from you should things go south.

 

Sometimes I think some of you predict doom and gloom so that you can have the best of both worlds, in a sense. If the team stinks, you can at least go on and on about how right you were. If the team is really good, well then that makes everyone happy and you don't care that you were wrong.

 

It's kind of the same reason that I stock up on Yankees players on my fantasy team. If they play well, then good for my fantasy team. If they stink, well then everyone's happy.

 

I think it's a lot easier to expect the worst and be pleasantly surprised rather than expect the best and be disappointed.

[Palodios]

Sometimes I think some of you predict doom and gloom so that you can have the best of both worlds, in a sense. If the team stinks, you can at least go on and on about how right you were. If the team is really good, well then that makes everyone happy and you don't care that you were wrong.

 

You have no idea....

[a700hitter]

Thanks for the pre-warning Fred, but I already know you well enough to know what to expect from you should things go south.

 

Sometimes I think some of you predict doom and gloom so that you can have the best of both worlds, in a sense. If the team stinks, you can at least go on and on about how right you were. If the team is really good, well then that makes everyone happy and you don't care that you were wrong.

 

It's kind of the same reason that I stock up on Yankees players on my fantasy team. If they play well, then good for my fantasy team. If they stink, well then everyone's happy.

 

I think it's a lot easier to expect the worst and be pleasantly surprised rather than expect the best and be disappointed.

I like the Yankee fantasy league strategy and have used it myself from time to time. LOL!!

 

As far as always being negative to have the best of both worlds or to have the luxury of eventually being right, I can't speak for Fred, but before the 2011 season, I was very optimistic about the prospects of the Red Sox. I think Fred might have also been optimistic at that juncture. I was clearly on the optimistic side of the ledger going into that season. That is why pigeon-holing me as negative has no basis. As for Fred, believe it or not, but there have been other years where Fred has been very optimistic at the start of the season where I disagreed with him. Generally, we all tend to get more optimistic as the season approaches, because we want to look forward to good baseball.

[Kimmi]

You have no idea....

 

 

LOL Pal. Good times, I'm sure.

[Palodios]

I like the Yankee fantasy league strategy and have used it myself from time to time. LOL!!

 

My teams always have abysmal luck. The last three years, the Yankee strategy has been extremely successful -- one first round bounce and two playoff no-shows. Success.

[User Name]

Thanks for the pre-warning Fred, but I already know you well enough to know what to expect from you should things go south.

 

Sometimes I think some of you predict doom and gloom so that you can have the best of both worlds, in a sense. If the team stinks, you can at least go on and on about how right you were. If the team is really good, well then that makes everyone happy and you don't care that you were wrong.

It's kind of the same reason that I stock up on Yankees players on my fantasy team. If they play well, then good for my fantasy team. If they stink, well then everyone's happy.

 

I think it's a lot easier to expect the worst and be pleasantly surprised rather than expect the best and be disappointed.

 

Copyright infringement.

[User Name]

I like the Yankee fantasy league strategy and have used it myself from time to time. LOL!!

 

As far as always being negative to have the best of both worlds or to have the luxury of eventually being right, I can't speak for Fred, but before the 2011 season, I was very optimistic about the prospects of the Red Sox. I think Fred might have also been optimistic at that juncture. I was clearly on the optimistic side of the ledger going into that season. That is why pigeon-holing me as negative has no basis. As for Fred, believe it or not, but there have been other years where Fred has been very optimistic at the start of the season where I disagreed with him. Generally, we all tend to get more optimistic as the season approaches, because we want to look forward to good baseball.

 

This is a very hilarious cop-out mr. "Carl Crawford is the savior of the franchise" who less than a year later turned into "The FO is a bunch of bumbling fools for signing Crawford". You are the number one example of the hypocrisy Kimmi was talking about here.

[seabeachfred]

Great, so you're preemptively planning on hammering other posters. Great! No wonder everyone gets along so well.

 

No, hammering the front office and if I get some negative feedback from people who still insist the front office did the right thing, then I will hammer them. It all depends. If I am willing to swallow my pride and admit I was wrong if what Cherington did this winter turns out well, then I would expect those who praised him for what he did and said he was right should be willing to admit that they were wrong and man up. As you should no, I take a very dim view when people will not admit that they are wrong about something.

[seabeachfred]

Thanks for the pre-warning Fred, but I already know you well enough to know what to expect from you should things go south.

 

Sometimes I think some of you predict doom and gloom so that you can have the best of both worlds, in a sense. If the team stinks, you can at least go on and on about how right you were. If the team is really good, well then that makes everyone happy and you don't care that you were wrong.

 

It's kind of the same reason that I stock up on Yankees players on my fantasy team. If they play well, then good for my fantasy team. If they stink, well then everyone's happy.

 

I think it's a lot easier to expect the worst and be pleasantly surprised rather than expect the best and be disappointed.

 

You should know that the refusal of your friends on that echo chamber board to admit they were wrong back in 2011 was a main reason for them folding up their tent and going their own way where they could all smile, be happy and grin themselves away in complete harmony even if it stifled their place with boredom and a total dullness. I want the Red Sox to do as well as you do, and I can damn well tell you that I take their losses a lot harder than you do---believe me on that. Too many of my colleagues here said they were more than willing to hammer the front office if they didn't deliver the top pitchers we needed for the coming season. Well, the front office failed miserably in that attempt because none of the ones they got right now even remotely resemble an ace or a No. 1 type pitcher, and yet so many have fallen into line and are now rationalizing that the front office didn't do so badly after all. Well they did do badly. We don't have either a No. 1 pitcher or an No. 2 pitcher-----just a bunch of three's and fours who we all hope will morph into a bunch of twos. It just might work, but it could also blow up in Henry's face and we fans all get hit with the debris from the fallout. I most certainly do not want that to happen.

[seabeachfred]

This is a very hilarious cop-out mr. "Carl Crawford is the savior of the franchise" who less than a year later turned into "The FO is a bunch of bumbling fools for signing Crawford". You are the number one example of the hypocrisy Kimmi was talking about here.

 

700 Hitter was right about on one point User. I was so high as the 2011 season approached that I had to come down from my self made cloud. However, that bad start worried me, and if you remember we had another slump somewhere in June before we took off again. That worried me more and it was then on another board that I came to the conclusion that as good as our team was on paper, they had the possibility of going into the tank and predicted that if they did it would be a collapse. I'm not happy I was right on that but I and others got scarred by that collapse. I'm less inclined to go overboard today. The difference is that I was not always that way. On the Dirt Dogs Board before the 2007 season I predicted we were going to go all the way and win the World Series that year. I hit it then but to tell the truth my predictions have not been worth a s*** since. I may just take a radical chance to turn that around and predict that the Red Sox are going to win the AL East this season-----and maybe I just might do that, to change my luck and to shock Kimmi, mvp and few other of my friends here.

[Kimmi]

I like the Yankee fantasy league strategy and have used it myself from time to time. LOL!!

 

As far as always being negative to have the best of both worlds or to have the luxury of eventually being right, I can't speak for Fred, but before the 2011 season, I was very optimistic about the prospects of the Red Sox. I think Fred might have also been optimistic at that juncture. I was clearly on the optimistic side of the ledger going into that season. That is why pigeon-holing me as negative has no basis. As for Fred, believe it or not, but there have been other years where Fred has been very optimistic at the start of the season where I disagreed with him. Generally, we all tend to get more optimistic as the season approaches, because we want to look forward to good baseball.

 

 

Fair enough. We all show our fandom in different ways, some being more optimistic than others. I don't have much to be negative about right now as far as the Sox are concerned. Speaking from past experience, I just don't like how ugly and nasty things can get when the team isn't playing well.

[Kimmi]

My teams always have abysmal luck. The last three years, the Yankee strategy has been extremely successful -- one first round bounce and two playoff no-shows. Success.

 

 

The Yankee strategy is a keeper. LOL I am always willing to sacrifice my fantasy team for the good of the Red Sox. My first season of fantasy baseball was 2009, and I really didn't have much of a clue. I was just feeling my way through it. In 2010, I began hoarding more and more Yankees players. The Yankees haven't won a WS since. Coincidence? I think not.

 

FTR, I don't play for money. Just for bragging rights.

[Kimmi]

copyright infringement.

 

 

lol

[Kimmi]

You should know that the refusal of your friends on that echo chamber board to admit they were wrong back in 2011 was a main reason for them folding up their tent and going their own way where they could all smile, be happy and grin themselves away in complete harmony even if it stifled their place with boredom and a total dullness. I want the Red Sox to do as well as you do, and I can damn well tell you that I take their losses a lot harder than you do---believe me on that. Too many of my colleagues here said they were more than willing to hammer the front office if they didn't deliver the top pitchers we needed for the coming season. Well, the front office failed miserably in that attempt because none of the ones they got right now even remotely resemble an ace or a No. 1 type pitcher, and yet so many have fallen into line and are now rationalizing that the front office didn't do so badly after all. Well they did do badly. We don't have either a No. 1 pitcher or an No. 2 pitcher-----just a bunch of three's and fours who we all hope will morph into a bunch of twos. It just might work, but it could also blow up in Henry's face and we fans all get hit with the debris from the fallout. I most certainly do not want that to happen.

 

 

Fred, that's twice that you've posted that false statement about why some of us left Sawxheads. You have no clue, so stop with that nonsense.