Long term contracts?

[cp176]

Most of the long termers are certainly receiving guaranteed money with possibly some incentive clauses thrown in. I am going to take a shot at this and say the majority of the team owners know pretty much what they are getting for their 5,6, or 7 year contracts. A couple of years maybe 3 in a few cases maybe but unlikely 4. They know perfectly well what they are over paying for. I'm ok with it now. Rules aren't the same for everyone. I'm glad I am a New Englander. I think that it is time to go big and win.

[Northern Star]

I apologize for repeating myself, but long, 100% guaranteed contracts stink. As a working stiff, it's an outrage to me that these idiots will be paid regardless of future performance. It's absolutely crazy. I'd much rather MLB had a NFL type system where only so much is guaranteed. Haven't you noticed how so many players seem to have their best or close to best season in their "walk" year? Make them earn it every year.

[Palodios]

Haven't you noticed how so many players seem to have their best or close to best season in their "walk" year? Make them earn it every year.

 

Ortiz has been bitching about his contract his whole career, but when he gets to the hall of fame after a career of walk-years, he should thank the Red Sox.

[cp176]

I apologize for repeating myself, but long, 100% guaranteed contracts stink. As a working stiff, it's an outrage to me that these idiots will be paid regardless of future performance. It's absolutely crazy. I'd much rather MLB had a NFL type system where only so much is guaranteed. Haven't you noticed how so many players seem to have their best or close to best season in their "walk" year? Make them earn it every year.

 

I agree 100%.

[sk7326]

Most of the long termers are certainly receiving guaranteed money with possibly some incentive clauses thrown in. I am going to take a shot at this and say the majority of the team owners know pretty much what they are getting for their 5,6, or 7 year contracts. A couple of years maybe 3 in a few cases maybe but unlikely 4. They know perfectly well what they are over paying for. I'm ok with it now. Rules aren't the same for everyone. I'm glad I am a New Englander. I think that it is time to go big and win.

 

I think it is a given that you are paying for the early years of a contract with the hope that the later years are adequate. Long term contracts are bad on the obvious level (outrage as a working stiff blah blah blah). However on the right people they are great - because you are locking in cost certainty, and for the most part the salaries escalate annually at a much higher rate than they do in the contracts. I mean you take the aging forecasts for a player like Mike Trout, and his long term deal is likely to be a screaming bargain at the end of it. The guarantees exist entirely because of the marketplace - in game theory it's the winner's curse. You generally overpay to win an auction. The trick is trying to overpay as little as possible. Now the industry could collude to not pay as much, but we all have seen how that goes . Are the players overpaid now? Not at all.

[cp176]

I think it is a given that you are paying for the early years of a contract with the hope that the later years are adequate. Long term contracts are bad on the obvious level (outrage as a working stiff blah blah blah). However on the right people they are great - because you are locking in cost certainty, and for the most part the salaries escalate annually at a much higher rate than they do in the contracts. I mean you take the aging forecasts for a player like Mike Trout, and his long term deal is likely to be a screaming bargain at the end of it. The guarantees exist entirely because of the marketplace - in game theory it's the winner's curse. You generally overpay to win an auction. The trick is trying to overpay as little as possible. Now the industry could collude to not pay as much, but we all have seen how that goes . Are the players overpaid now? Not at all.

 

You are right. It is all about the entertainment industry and what the market can afford. A whole new discussion could be had as to whether what they do is actually worth what they are paid. But, certainly not here.

[mvp 78]

You are right. It is all about the entertainment industry and what the market can afford. A whole new discussion could be had as to whether what they do is actually worth what they are paid. But, certainly not here.

 

We could sit here and chat about CEO pay, but it will always sound like a rip off to us schmucks. The entertainment industry isn't the only place for bloated salaries.

[cp176]

We could sit here and chat about CEO pay, but it will always sound like a rip off to us schmucks. The entertainment industry isn't the only place for bloated salaries.

 

I am a full blooded (Scottish) capitalist. We live in a beautiful country. I don't begrudge anyone what they are able to make for a living. I am pretty sure that I couldn't nor would I want to try to run a company that talks in terms of billions. I am also positive that I could not hit a major league fastball. Go Sox - Come on - one more big move!

[GomesBeard]

I have no issue with long-term contracts, if they result in a WS ring. The impact from that would cover the cost of the contracts. But I do prefer the NFL system. But MLB ain't never going to go backwards.

[cp176]

I have no issue with long-term contracts, if they result in a WS ring. The impact from that would cover the cost of the contracts. But I do prefer the NFL system. But MLB ain't never going to go backwards.

 

Couldn't agree with you more. In a perfect scenario, you would earn your keep, give some back, or hit the highway. Don't see it happening.

[seabeachfred]

I have no issue with long-term contracts, if they result in a WS ring. The impact from that would cover the cost of the contracts. But I do prefer the NFL system. But MLB ain't never going to go backwards.

 

As been demonstrated so many times in the past the NFLPA are made up of a bunch of scabs who would sell out their mothers for a smile and bonus f rom their owners. We've seen how so many of them walked through picket lines the past few decades, Howie Long, being one of the most notorious of the scabs. The MLBPA are made of sterner stuff and would shut down baseball if the owners tried the NFL extortion on them. Having said that GB, it only leaves one alternative. We have to have owners of the Red Sox who understand that the market dictates what a player is worth and not some number they arrived at from some computer spreadsheet, something I think Prune Face is going to have to understand better so we don't get another Lester-type debacle any time soon. And that's all I'm concerned with to tell you the truth. The rest of the teams can go to hell, what does that mean to me. Only the Red Sox matter and they must be put in a position where they can compete for a title of some kind every @#$%^&* year.

[Spudboy]

It would be cool to see non-guaranteed contract and such a la NFL in MLB.

 

Just imagine the turnover!!!

[mvp 78]

It would be cool to see non-guaranteed contract and such a la NFL in MLB.

 

Just imagine the turnover!!!

 

It's more likely that Pal and A700 become billionaires. The players union is the strongest in professional sports. They'd never give up guaranteed contracts.

[Spudboy]

It's more likely that Pal and A700 become billionaires. The players union is the strongest in professional sports. They'd never give up guaranteed contracts.

 

Yes, I realize that. I was just thinking aloud about how it would change the complexion of the game. That's all.

[seabeachfred]

Yes, I realize that. I was just thinking aloud about how it would change the complexion of the game. That's all.

 

Spud----that's very true----and the one thing ownership must realize is that the prices for quality players will be determined by the market. As far as our team is concerned, John Henry has to understand that the fans, the most rabid and loyal in baseball, want and deserve a winner and he has to spend money to make sure of that. One thing that most likely won't happen but should is that we could use a real baseball man in baseball operations to aid Cherington and to keep Lucchino out of this area. He is a walking plague ready to germinate every time he wanders into this area.

[iortiz]

Regarding long contracts, I haven't heard anything about Shileds or Scherzer lately. Maybe some teams are making some negotiations under the radar or have lost a little bit of interest considering what they are asking. Hopefully Ben is in the hunt of one of them. Edited December 18, 2014 by iortiz

[iortiz]

Btw MVP, my 200M take it or leave it offer to Scherzer seems these days like a massively overpaid offer and probably could have worked it out haha.

 

I don't see Scherzer making more than 170 M.

[mvp 78]

His agent is Scott Boras. He's going to wait until the end of January and get PAID.

[seabeachfred]

Regarding long contracts, I haven't heard anything about Shileds or Scherzer lately. Maybe some teams are making some negotiations under the radar or have lost a little bit of interest considering what they are asking. Hopefully Ben is in the hunt of one of them.

 

iortiz----I think I mentioned his before but a good friend of mine who played ball for me and coached with me is the guy who signed James Shields about a decade ago. Fred Repke is a top scout for the Rays and he insists the Red Sox would reap big benefits by signing him. He gives you over 200 innings every year and hasn't missed a turn in a dog's age. Sure, as pitchers get older things could start to break down but Shield seems a guy who revels in big time situations and we should not let the fact that he had a couple of hiccups this past post season eliminate his larger body of work. We both know we need at least one more top notch pitcher----I still would like two of them but it's becoming increasingly clear we're not going to get the daily double and that to me means Shields or Hamels, one costing us plenty of money, the other prospects not named Betts or Swihart---both of which the Red Sox seem to have in large numbers.

[iortiz]

His agent is Scott Boras. He's going to wait until the end of January and get PAID.

 

Don't remember the name, but last offseason Boras shitted the bed with this FA, refusing a deal and then this FA got less, I just can't remeber the name.

 

Anyway, do u still see he getting more than 200 M?

[iortiz]

iortiz----I think I mentioned his before but a good friend of mine who played ball for me and coached with me is the guy who signed James Shields about a decade ago. Fred Repke is a top scout for the Rays and he insists the Red Sox would reap big benefits by signing him. He gives you over 200 innings every year and hasn't missed a turn in a dog's age. Sure, as pitchers get older things could start to break down but Shield seems a guy who revels in big time situations and we should not let the fact that he had a couple of hiccups this past post season eliminate his larger body of work. We both know we need at least one more top notch pitcher----I still would like two of them but it's becoming increasingly clear we're not going to get the daily double and that to me means Shields or Hamels, one costing us plenty of money, the other prospects not named Betts or Swihart---both of which the Red Sox seem to have in large numbers.

 

Hopefully it is via FA Fred. I do not want to give up prospects either.

[Spudboy]

Don't remember the name, but last offseason Boras shitted the bed with this FA, refusing a deal and then this FA got less, I just can't remeber the name.

 

Anyway, do u still see he getting more than 200 M?

 

I think that would be Kendry Moralis and Stephen Drew.

[iortiz]

I think that would be Kendry Moralis and Stephen Drew.

 

Yeah, not sure how much they left on the table.

[mvp 78]

I think that would be Kendry Moralis and Stephen Drew.

 

And these guys are not in Max's stratosphere.

[Behindenemylines]

It would surprise the s*&^ out of me if the Sox went hard after Max. Who is going to be the team to break the bank to get him? $panks say no? Tigers? Rangers? Did the Dodgers dump Kemp to make a run?

[Spudboy]

Speaking of long term dead money I just saw this. What a giant dick Amaro is. It was in very bad taste that he said these things to the press and It was questionable if he should have spoken with Howard that way. Can you imagine Cherries saying things like this to the press?

 

NL East Notes: Howard, Turner, Tulowitzki

By Charlie Wilmoth [December 20, 2014 at 11:02am CST]

 

GM Ruben Amaro says he’s told first baseman Ryan Howard the Phillies feel the team would be better off if he were elsewhere, Matt Lombardo of NJ.com writes (via Mike Missanelli on 97.5 The Fanatic). “I told [Howard] that in our situation it would probably bode better for the organization not with him but without him,” says Amaro. “With that said, if he’s with us, then we’ll work around him. We’ll hope he puts up the kind of numbers that we hope he can and we’ll see where it goes from there.” Amaro notes that the Phillies are not willing to release Howard. A trade, obviously, will be tricky, given the $60MM remaining on Howard’s contract. Here’s more from the NL East.

[a700hitter]

Speaking of long term dead money I just saw this. What a giant dick Amaro is. It was in very bad taste that he said these things to the press and It was questionable if he should have spoken with Howard that way. Can you imagine Cherries saying things like this to the press?

 

NL East Notes: Howard, Turner, Tulowitzki

By Charlie Wilmoth [December 20, 2014 at 11:02am CST]

 

GM Ruben Amaro says he’s told first baseman Ryan Howard the Phillies feel the team would be better off if he were elsewhere, Matt Lombardo of NJ.com writes (via Mike Missanelli on 97.5 The Fanatic). “I told [Howard] that in our situation it would probably bode better for the organization not with him but without him,” says Amaro. “With that said, if he’s with us, then we’ll work around him. We’ll hope he puts up the kind of numbers that we hope he can and we’ll see where it goes from there.” Amaro notes that the Phillies are not willing to release Howard. A trade, obviously, will be tricky, given the $60MM remaining on Howard’s contract. Here’s more from the NL East.

Poor Ryan Howard. He will just have to keep cashing enormous checks and being useless. Boo Hoo!

[Spudboy]

Poor Ryan Howard. He will just have to keep cashing enormous checks and being useless. Boo Hoo!

 

I guess. Those big checks sure would go far in my life.

 

But I was just commenting on Amaro. Even if Howard is near to totally useless now, the man still has some dignity I presume.

[Palodios]

Speaking of long term dead money I just saw this. What a giant dick Amaro is. It was in very bad taste that he said these things to the press and It was questionable if he should have spoken with Howard that way. Can you imagine Cherries saying things like this to the press?

 

Talksox would be killing Ben. Pure vitriol.

 

Amaro is possibly one of the worst execs in baseball right now. Bad team, bad contracts, bad farm system, and a complete reluctance to do anything about it. That team is a disaster right now.

[a700hitter]

I guess. Those big checks sure would go far in my life.

 

But I was just commenting on Amaro. Even if Howard is near to totally useless now, the man still has some dignity I presume.

Amaro probably has a lot of bitterness toward Howard as his signing was Amaro's most glaring and expensive mistake. The bitterness is displaced anger, but he has to stare at this enormous mistake everyday so he lashed out at the guy hoping to embarrass him. I don't really care what GM's say or how they behave. I don't care if they are drunks or whatever. I only care about what they put on the field. If Amaro had Ben's demeanor and tact, the Phillies fans should still kill him on the message boards because he has wrecked their team. I'd be even more upset with the ownership that keeps him in place. So, he told the truth about how he feels about Ryan Howard. I have no problem with that. Personally, I can't stomach all of the sanitized statements made by GM's and field managers. It drives me crazy when one of our pitchers gets beaten like a pinata and the manager says that he had good stuff in the first couple of innings but struggled with his location and got hurt by leaving some pitches up. How about just saying what we all saw. He was terrible today. He'll have to work on some things before his next start. He didn't have "good stuff"! I don't expect baseball players, managers or GMs to be diplomats. They shouldn't have immature food fights either, but sometimes it is okay to say that someone is not doing a good job when he stinks.