2014 Offseason Thread

[seabeachfred]

"Cardinals Exploring Top-End Starter Acquisition"

 

Red Sox fans must be jealous of that headline.

 

It seems to me that a lot of Red Sox fans here and elsewhere are coming to the conclusion that Cherington has no intention of pursuing and getting us a No. 1 pitcher, and what's worse those same fans are resigning themselves to accept it. Sorry, I am not and will not. Prune Face blew it with Lester and blew it badly, especially when he once again leaned on his despicable cohort Lucchino to blow it for him. I feel that both those guys owe it to the fans to make amends for that colossal blunder by getting the team that pitcher it needs to compete for a chance to get to the WS next fall. Maybe we'll hear something positive like that soon but I'm not going to give those two a free ride after what they screwed up with Lester.

[a700hitter]

It seems to me that a lot of Red Sox fans here and elsewhere are coming to the conclusion that Cherington has no intention of pursuing and getting us a No. 1 pitcher, and what's worse those same fans are resigning themselves to accept it. Sorry, I am not and will not. Prune Face blew it with Lester and blew it badly, especially when he once again leaned on his despicable cohort Lucchino to blow it for him. I feel that both those guys owe it to the fans to make amends for that colossal blunder by getting the team that pitcher it needs to compete for a chance to get to the WS next fall. Maybe we'll hear something positive like that soon but I'm not going to give those two a free ride after what they screwed up with Lester.

They will get no free ride from me. If this collection of hunches and comeback hopefuls blows up in his face, Ben should find a new line of work.

[Spudboy]

Maybe it's the 10 degree temperature outside but boy does it feel like winter!

 

I'm wondering when pitchers and catchers report to Ft. Myers. I think it about February 10-11 but am not sure. Maybe I should Google it?

 

Eh. It can't arrive soon enough for me.

[seabeachfred]

Maybe it's the 10 degree temperature outside but boy does it feel like winter!

 

I'm wondering when pitchers and catchers report to Ft. Myers. I think it about February 10-11 but am not sure. Maybe I should Google it?

 

Eh. It can't arrive soon enough for me.

 

Not to rub it in Spud but it has been about 75-80 degrees out here for the past few days after we got what is for us a bout of unseasonably brisk weather---50-60 degrees. Still for me when pitchers and catchers report will only be looked upon with excitement and hope from me is if we get that No. 1 pitcher we need. Henry and Lucchino owe that to us and I'm not going to let up on them until they do.

[cp176]

Not to rub it in Spud but it has been about 75-80 degrees out here for the past few days after we got what is for us a bout of unseasonably brisk weather---50-60 degrees. Still for me when pitchers and catchers report will only be looked upon with excitement and hope from me is if we get that No. 1 pitcher we need. Henry and Lucchino owe that to us and I'm not going to let up on them until they do.

 

Cafardo is right this time. The Red Sox have made numerous moves that will help them this year. It would make no sense what so ever for them to go in to this season without the pitcher they need. They have the trade chips, they have the money - bound to happen. Just a waiting game for us. Common sense says that it will happen.

[BSN07]

Cafardo is right this time. The Red Sox have made numerous moves that will help them this year. It would make no sense what so ever for them to go in to this season without the pitcher they need. They have the trade chips, they have the money - bound to happen. Just a waiting game for us. Common sense says that it will happen.

 

I would wager it will come somewhere before the TDL and next off season. They aren't paying Shields 20M less then what they offered. I think people who think that will happen are in denial haha Scherzer isn't happening either. The "only" 2 scenarios I see as possibilities before the season are,

 

1. Scherzer signs with Detroit and Detroit trades Price.

 

2. Scherzer signs in DC and they Trade Zimmerman.

 

Other than that I just don't see it happening.

[Palodios]

I am still holding out hope. Besides Lester, none of the top tier guys have moved and this team looks one starter away.

 

They could clear some payroll from Buchholz. I am also surprised that the outfield jam hasn't been completely resolved yet-- Craig, Nava and Vic are all still rostered and none are starters.

[wyo-sox]

Fred, a700..... what are you talking about ' not giving Cherington a free ride ' or ' not accepting his moves like some fans ', While I think you guys are great and are a couple of my favorite posters..... just what do you think you're relationship with the front office is?

 

I'm just joking with you a bit, so feel free to be defensive, but not overly as I'm just having fun.

[Spudboy]

Is it possible that the Sox acquire a top of the rotation ( note I did not say "ace" or "#1" ) starter that is not currently on the radar? A trade that we are not discussing?

 

I'm not sure I buy Cafardo's idea. The Sox management may see the current rotation as viable for the goals that they have set for the 2015 team. Like getting back to respectability.

 

At this point I still suspect that the Sox are not all in for 2015.

 

Who knows?

[mvp 78]

I am still holding out hope. Besides Lester, none of the top tier guys have moved and this team looks one starter away.

 

They could clear some payroll from Buchholz. I am also surprised that the outfield jam hasn't been completely resolved yet-- Craig, Nava and Vic are all still rostered and none are starters.

Vic and Craig won't be moved until they show they are healthy in Spring Training.

[mvp 78]

Is it possible that the Sox acquire a top of the rotation ( note I did not say "ace" or "#1" ) starter that is not currently on the radar? A trade that we are not discussing?

 

I'm not sure I buy Cafardo's idea. The Sox management may see the current rotation as viable for the goals that they have set for the 2015 team. Like getting back to respectability.

 

At this point I still suspect that the Sox are not all in for 2015.

 

Who knows?

As long as they don't get blownout in games 1 and 2, it'll be ok. I don't want to read the endless bitching on here about the Sox if people's vacations are ruined.

[Dojji]

Honestly I don't think that that guy is objectively out there. Every remaining "top starter" has serious flaws. Shields for example is the guy I want because of his near legendary durability, but he has been crap in the postseason.

 

Just because we want and need "a top starter* does not mean that the guy we need is out there, nor does it mean that he's out there at a price that the Red Sox FO should be paying. There's a lot of arithmatic that goes into being a good GM and not all of it lends itself to satisfying fans with an overwhelming need to see a splashy move made in the offseason.

 

Personally I suspect our "new #1" is going to be Henry Owens.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Dojji

[Palodios]

Personally I suspect our "new #1" is going to be Henry Owens.

 

The dreaded Dojji kiss of death. Come on man, did you really have to jinx that one?

[User Name]

The dreaded Dojji kiss of death. Come on man, did you really have to jinx that one?

 

You should have taken the chance to reverse-jinx it right there, my man.

[Bellhorn04]

Honestly I don't think that that guy is objectively out there. Every remaining "top starter" has serious flaws. Shields for example is the guy I want because of his near legendary durability, but he has been crap in the postseason.

 

OTOH Shields was the #1 on a team that went to Game 7 of the World Series and he had a very large role in them getting there.

[Bellhorn04]

Is it possible that the Sox acquire a top of the rotation ( note I did not say "ace" or "#1" ) starter that is not currently on the radar? A trade that we are not discussing?

 

I'm not sure I buy Cafardo's idea. The Sox management may see the current rotation as viable for the goals that they have set for the 2015 team. Like getting back to respectability.

 

At this point I still suspect that the Sox are not all in for 2015.

 

 

I think they are all in, for 2 reasons:

 

1) They're already over the luxury tax threshold.

2) The Ortiz window is closing.

[Elktonnick]

I don't think the lux tax is a major factor in their thinking at this point, at least not for 2015. I believe the Sox would be willing to either trade or acquire a another front line starter for the right deal. As for free agents. I think the hold up is the years not the yearly salary. I don't think the Sox want to be in a position that the Yankees or Phillies find themselves or they themselves were in when they had a lot of aging high priced veterans with very expensive long term contracts. I think the Sox would make the Hamels or Zimmerman trade if it involved the right players currently controlled by Boston. Clearly both Philadelphia and Washington want more then the Sox are willing to give up.

 

The cold facts are given the weakness of the ALE, there really is no reason to make any major trade deal involving their young players and prospects before the All Star Break. If the Sox are in playoff contention at that time then, they can decide how to retool their team to make a title run.

 

At least that the way I see it.

[Bellhorn04]

The cold facts are given the weakness of the ALE, there really is no reason to make any major trade deal involving their young players and prospects before the All Star Break. If the Sox are in playoff contention at that time then, they can decide how to retool their team to make a title run.

 

At least that the way I see it.

 

The other line of thinking, of course, is that you should go all in from Day One because if you don't, you might miss the playoffs by a game.

[Elktonnick]

The sprinter never won a marathon. The road to the playoffs in MLB is a marathon not a sprint.

[iortiz]

The other line of thinking, of course, is that you should go all in from Day One because if you don't, you might miss the playoffs by a game.

 

This should be the strategy since we are likely one piece away to win it all on paper.

[mvp 78]

The game isn't played on paper. See 2011.

[iortiz]

haha So? You have at least to try to put your best version (on paper), then anything can happen.

[cp176]

The sprinter never won a marathon. The road to the playoffs in MLB is a marathon not a sprint.

 

I agree with your analogy. Having competed in a few marathons, I would say that if you want to compete at a high level, You cannot lose track of the competition throughout the course of the race though. I think that the Red Sox are going to wait until the right deal is there for them. I do think that they will do something this year. I also think that they are dealing from a stronger position than they have in the past. They could start the year with what they have. Once the field realizes this, I think that the "right" deal will surface. I don't think that this is a finished product. Just doesn't seem to make any sense to me that it is. I don't think that they have any intention of waiting until the next free agent class either. Very confident here that they know what they are doing and that they will get the job done - "on paper" anyway.

[mvp 78]

Kalish and Lavarnway are both unemployed again.

[cp176]

Don't know about Kalish but Lavarnway has a pretty good education to fall back upon

[Dojji]

OTOH Shields was the #1 on a team that went to Game 7 of the World Series and he had a very large role in them getting there.

 

He had a very large role in why the Royals lost the world Series too. He was 0-2 with an ERA of 7 in a series that went 7 and was lost by one run. He pitches like anything other than undiluted black water, and his team wins.

 

I've cooled on Shields significantly since I started really digging into the numbers. I'd still be glad to have him, that durability and solid quality in the regular season is not to be sneered at, but if our definition of a #1 is the guy who'll carry us in the postseason, that guy is not James Shields.

[Dojji]

I mean for all we know this is the year Clay Buchholz finally puts it all together, and stays healthy, both in the same year, and he's our #1. You can't depend on it, but if you put yourself in a position to get lucky in enough different ways something ought to come through for you.

[Bellhorn04]

He had a very large role in why the Royals lost the world Series too. He was 0-2 with an ERA of 7 in a series that went 7 and was lost by one run. He pitches like anything other than undiluted black water, and his team wins.

 

I've cooled on Shields significantly since I started really digging into the numbers. I'd still be glad to have him, that durability and solid quality in the regular season is not to be sneered at, but if our definition of a #1 is the guy who'll carry us in the postseason, that guy is not James Shields.

 

I don't totally disagree with you, in fact I'm probably playing devil's advocate a bit here. But if we judge a pitcher on his postseason credentials, we wouldn't want Kershaw either.

[Spudboy]

People seem to only recall the recent events for some reason.

 

Yup. Shields crapped all over himself in the 2014.

 

I remember watching him pitch very well in the AL East for several years. Whatever.

[Palodios]

Another very interesting name is Ogando. He had elbow troubles last year and pitched very poorly, so the Red Sox need to vet him, but his numbers are very good. He has experience both as a starter and late inning reliever.

 

He had a 3.40 ERA as a starter in 2011/2013. For his career, he had a 3.12 ERA (140 ERA+) before last year's aberration in Texas. When healthy, he has #2 starter or 8th inning potential.