2014 Offseason Thread

[BSN07]

Preferably Lester, Shields, Porcello.

 

But if Lester Bolts, then Shields, Porcello, fodder.

 

Dude Lester is a Cub, remove thy self from under rock and walk amongst the now.

[Palodios]

Anyone know the differences in taxes between Mass. And Illinois? Just curious as to what the "actual" difference is between the 2 offers.

 

I posted it yesterday -- Mass and Illinois are around 5, California is around 13. However, Illinois will be going down to 3% next year so I have heard..

[Spudboy]

He's a mid-rotation starter to slot AFTER the two decent starters. Or do you think the rotation can consist of four pitchers? And even worse, Buch is often injured and can be downright terrible. They need three pitchers who can eat innings, and Masterson can eat innings, and will only cost money. It's common sense.

 

I like Masterson too so I guess that makes me a boot licker and ball washer.

 

In any case I would not mind having either on the Sox. You pointed out that Masterson only cost money and that is a legitimate consideration.

[User Name]

Is anyone else concerned the elder statesman of the site haven't posted? Do we have an emergency contact list for them?

 

You're ruining the moment. This is the calm before the storm.

[Spudboy]

Dude Lester is a Cub, remove thy self from under rock and walk amongst the now.

 

I just woke up!!!

 

CRAP.

[Palodios]

Okay, I've done it. I have convinced myself that Cueto is the guy. He's two years younger than Lester. He's on a bad team in a division that just got tougher, and on a team that reportedly already needs to trim 19 million in payroll. The Red Sox have one of the biggest minor league pitching surpluses in the majors. They can afford to extend him.

 

Cecchini + a pitching prospect + a throw-in for Cueto. Cespedes for one of Porcello/Latos/Gallardo in a three team trade. Ben, get it done.

[User Name]

Okay, I've done it. I have convinced myself that Cueto is the guy. He's two years younger than Lester. He's on a bad team in a division that just got tougher, and on a team that reportedly already needs to trim 19 million in payroll. The Red Sox have one of the biggest minor league pitching surpluses in the majors. They can afford to extend him.

 

Cecchini + a pitching prospect + a throw-in for Cueto, Cespedes for Porcello/Latos/Gallardo in a three team trade. Ben, get it done.

 

Any trade for a Reds SP begins and ends with Cespedes. They are looking for a LF, and they are known to be in on him and have had talks with the Sox about at least Latos, who i like, but that's besides the point.

[BSN07]

You're ruining the moment. This is the calm before the storm.

 

Gaze upon the pale white horse(fred), the man who sat on him was death(a700) and Hell followed with them.

[MNSoxChief102]

Any trade for a Reds SP begins and ends with Cespedes. They are looking for a LF, and they are known to be in on him and have had talks with the Sox about at least Latos, who i like, but that's besides the point.

 

So maybe Cespedes, Cecchini, and a pitching prospect for Cueto? Would think that would at least get the conversation rolling pretty good.

[Palodios]

Any trade for a Reds SP begins and ends with Cespedes. They are looking for a LF, and they are known to be in on him and have had talks with the Sox about at least Latos, who i like, but that's besides the point.

 

If they want Cespedes, that's fine too. I would imagine they will go into full rebuild mode if they trade Cueto.

[Gringo]

A move for Cueto or Shields is a must at this point. Shame they couldn't just give Lester what he wanted, then we'd still have the Cespedes chip.

 

We could've had Lester and Cueto as a 1-2.

 

Oh well

[a700hitter]

I'm kind of relieved we didn't throw 150mil to Lester. On to the next...

Who's next? Another top pitcher will whether a FA or in a trade will cost us dearly.

[MNSoxChief102]

Looks like the Sox are in and talking with the D-Backs on Wade Miley according to Rosentwat. Not sure what it would take to pry him loose but I wouldn't mind that move. 1st year of arb, left handed pitcher, etc

[seabeachfred]

I agree. I am not emotionally attached to Lester. If they can replace his numbers adquately, then I will be fine. I just don't want to see them trot out a bunch of has-beens and never-weres like that time they had Smoltz out there. Do it right or admit failure. Half-assing the pitching staff is not going to get it done.

 

Right on the money IO. I pretty much expected what took place in so far as Lester was NOT coming back to Boston, and we all should just be honest about it. The front office blew this sky high way back in the previous off season when they stupidly low balled Jon and greased their own skids. Moreover, no one should be anything but totally critical to Prune Face and his cohorts until they rectify our starting rotation---which they may or not do in good order. Right now our starting staff consists of Kelly, Masterson, Buchholz, Delarosa and Webster. That's garbage one, a last place one, a despicable one. We need two top notch starters, not a couple of threes or a two and a three because that will not get it done.

 

We need to get Cole Hamels from the Phillies and do it as soon as possible. Yes, it will cost us prospects and talent but it must be done. That and signing James Shields to be our No. 2 guy. These names I'm hearing like Leake, Latos, Santana, McCarthy, well, do you want to win or be mediocre. Those names lead to failure. Cole and James could lead to victory. You blew it Prune Face so now rectify it and get us those two pitchers we need..........and trade Cespedes before we blow that one too.

[seabeachfred]

f*** Lester.

 

Maybe, but f*** John Henry and Larry Lucchino more. They brought this travesty on themselves with their abject stupidity.

[a700hitter]

The only bright side here is that the NL Central just blew up. The Reds probably are seeing the writing on the wall, maybe the Brewers too. Cueto, Homer Bailey, Latos, Gallardo, maybe even Garza are now on the table, and possibly cheaper. Cueto is the big play here, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the Sox go after Latos+Bailey.

I am not following you here. What do you mean?

[mvp 78]

I think any deal for Hamels would rape the farm system as the Phills are looking for way too much.

 

Shields

Cueto

Masterson

Buchholz

Battle Royal

[a700hitter]

f*** awkward hug Henry and his whole FO full of bumbling fools. And f*** Theo too!! Hopefully he comes i last place for a third straight year.

[mvp 78]

Maybe, but f*** John Henry and Larry Lucchino more. They brought this travesty on themselves with their abject stupidity.

 

Can't be mad at Lester, that's sour grapes. The ownership screwed the pooch here.

 

It's clear that they never really valued Lester and their mediocre offers were just for PR purposes only.

[User Name]

Agian, they got the biggest gun they could find, then promptly shot themselves in the foot with it.

[seabeachfred]

Henry and Co screwed the pooch on this one. They had a chance to offer Jon a 5yr $100-$110 mil contract extension and instead they cheated out. Then, they get in a bidding war where every single outlet was pointing to $150 mil and 6yrs being the target and they come up $15 mil short. Now, all they are left with is Cespedes, who has no position right now and has lost value in the process due to his defensive and attitude concerns. The sox also lost in the court of public opinion when they put out their new "philosophy" and then went against it 5 months later with their bid on Jon. They'll try to spin this, but the moment they offered him a garbage deal was the day their chance at a discount dried up. Now, you're talking about Shields? You mean Small Game James? A guy who's gonna get 5 or 6 yrs on the open market and is 2 years older? Shields is going to get at least 5yrs and $90 mil

 

Jacko, you nailed it just as my fried IO did a few posts back. Yet you are going to see some of the bootlickers and ball washers on this board spin this just as Prune Face and Lucchintzy will and drink the Kool Aid that these two clowns know what they're doing. And, yes, we still have Cespedes and his value is shrinking like a lead weight by the day. Things could improve with a day or two for us but I'm not counting on that either. This whole Lester thing has blown up in their faces and the majority of us should be ripping the front office to shreds. I didn't expect Lester back but I do expect these two dipshits to go out now and get us two top notch starters not named Leake, Latos, Santana or McCarthy. Of course, whether they can or not, they should never forget how they f***ed this one up.

[MNSoxChief102]

Right on the money IO. I pretty much expected what took place in so far as Lester was NOT coming back to Boston, and we all should just be honest about it. The front office blew this sky high way back in the previous off season when they stupidly low balled Jon and greased their own skids.

 

I agree that they could've avoided all of this by simply offering better last off-season, but the more I look at it, the more I think Lester planned to go to FA all along. If he'd of really taken 5/105 last spring, then a starting offer of 4/70 should've been seen by him/agents as a starting point and not a low ball. Those two deals aren't that far off. Compared to what he ended up with, the original offer is ridiculously low but that includes the benefit of hindsight, something we didn't have last spring. I suspect his agents thought that with a solid season, a 6/150 deal would be attainable and in the end it was. Hence the reason they immediately tabled talks. Had the Sox offered 6/135 instead he would've signed but no reason for us to have done so at this point last year.

[Gringo]

liverpool, liverpool, liverpooooooooool

[User Name]

It's simple. The Red Sox were counting on Lester not having the absolutely best season of his career in his platform year, while Lester bet that he could. Lester won. The real problem here is that Lester probably saw that initial offer as a slap in the face, and i don't blame him. Those who assume he would have signed for way below market value, however, are either looking for mental masturbation help so they can whine, or they wanna be a jackass about it (looking at Jacko). The point is that the Sox could have handled the negotiations better, but if anyone here tells me they expected Lester to put up the season that he did, they're lying.

[MNSoxChief102]

Have to say that a rotation of Shields, Miley, Porcello, Kelly, and Masterson/Webster/Rubby/etc wouldn't be horrible. Not super exciting but it could work and wouldn't cost us the world in prospects like Hamels would.

[a700hitter]

Can't be mad at Lester, that's sour grapes. The ownership screwed the pooch here.

 

It's clear that they never really valued Lester and their mediocre offers were just for PR purposes only.

Agreed. I don't blame Lester a bit. Once he had a big year, we traded him and he hit the open market, we were going to have to come up with huge money for him. At that point, why would he offer a discount? They could have made a nice generous offer in March and wrapped him up, but they didn't. They missed a huge opportunity. Now they will pay through the nose for other top pitchers whether they be FA's or through trades. If they go for a bunch of 4's and 5's, it really doesn't make sense to have spent all the money on Hanley and Pablo this season. Pablo was not a particular bargain.

[seabeachfred]

You're a Yankee fan, right? Hey, man, thanks for the recap of today's events. We all appreciate it. You're like the one Vegan at the Carnivore club reminding us that the sky is falling.

 

Yes, I do appreciate what Jacko because if some of you Red Sox fans are going to drink the Kool Aid and still give the front office their due, some people are going to have to speak up and skewer Henry and Co. for their stupidity in letting this happen. This could turn out to be debacle unless we get two top quality starters, and I sure as hell don't mean Masterson by that. Nor Leake, Latos, Santana or McCarthy. You don't like Cole Hamels. I do and that is one of the two we need to get, a top notch No. 1 type lefthander---and, yes, it will cost us players and or prospects even though we're in complete agreement that the Phillies' Ruben Amaro Jr. is a total moron as a GM. Shields we agree on too. What we don't agree on is to cut Henry some slack right now. He doesn't deserve it until he gets us those two pitchers we need badly and finally understands he's not going to get much for Cespedes except a bad team headache if he fails to trade him and has to see him on a fractured team bench and clubhouse next season.

[MNSoxChief102]

It's simple. The Red Sox were counting on Lester not having the absolutely best season of his career in his platform year, while Lester bet that he could. Lester won. The real problem here is that Lester probably saw that initial offer as a slap in the face, and i don't blame him. Those who assume he would have signed for way below market value, however, are either looking for mental masturbation help so they can whine, or they wanna be a jackass about it (looking at Jacko). The point is that the Sox could have handled the negotiations better, but if anyone here tells me they expected Lester to put up the season that he did, they're lying.

 

Bingo. I don't doubt we could have done better last spring but to say Lester would've taken 5/105 is stretching the bounds of credulity. He knew he could deliver a solid season and earn at least 6/135 if not what he got. And he made it happen. Can't blame him and can't really blame the Sox FO either. It is what it is at this point. We made a fair offer in FA and he took the highest bid instead. At least it wasn't the Yanks snatching him up. I can live with the Cubs... they haven't done s*** in a century. Hope he helps them get back to relevance soon.

[seabeachfred]

Been a fan since 1955 so I have seen many interesting twists and turns. Didn't see the Sox losing out by 20 mil. to the Cubs. I am not seeing the logic in some of their recent decisions. Help me out here. 3rd base I get but 88 mil. to an infielder to play left field. The excitement surrounding Castillo having no major league experience. Allen Craig? I hope there is method to the madness here. If not, am I looking at something as foolish as losing Fisk., Burleson, and Lynn? I truly believed that they would match the Cubs $ for $. Oh well, like I said I have seen quite a bit over the years. Let's see if we can pull off another Sparky Lyle for Danny Cater deal.

 

Kuddos to you cp. I have been a Red Sox fan only since 2000 and they make me walk the floor at night and skip meals. Admittedly, I seem always on the ledge but the Sox do this to me. How you've endured all those years is a testament not only to your loyalty but your coolness under fire. I wish I had some of that. At least some people here are asking some tough questions today and I'm wondering about Hanley Ramirez too. That was a bad signing. Well on to the next crisis, like getting two pitchers that can help us win something next season besides an entry into a no title ALDS. I want a division title at the least next season, and after this miserable season Red Sox fans should demand nothing less.

[BSN07]

Agreed. I don't blame Lester a bit. Once he had a big year, we traded him and he hit the open market, we were going to have to come up with huge money for him. At that point, why would he offer a discount? They could have made a nice generous offer in March and wrapped him up, but they didn't. They missed a huge opportunity. Now they will pay through the nose for other top pitchers whether they be FA's or through trades. If they go for a bunch of 4's and 5's, it really doesn't make sense to have spent all the money on Hanley and Pablo this season. Pablo was not a particular bargain.

 

What do you think he would have signed for?