2014 Offseason Thread

[BSN07]

Lester got a 20M signing bonus with the Cubs. 20M straight to your pocket would be pretty damn hard to pass up.

[mvp 78]

Agreed. I don't blame Lester a bit. Once he had a big year, we traded him and he hit the open market, we were going to have to come up with huge money for him. At that point, why would he offer a discount? They could have made a nice generous offer in March and wrapped him up, but they didn't. They missed a huge opportunity. Now they will pay through the nose for other top pitchers whether they be FA's or through trades. If they go for a bunch of 4's and 5's, it really doesn't make sense to have spent all the money on Hanley and Pablo this season. Pablo was not a particular bargain.

 

If they just get 4's and 5's it'll be a reprisal of the 05 season. Yuck. No more Wade Millers please!

[Palodios]

I am not following you here. What do you mean?

 

The Cubs are looking to compete, in the same division as the Reds. The majority of the Reds pitching staff is a free agent in 2015. They have a good amount of incentive to try to blow it up a year early.

[a700hitter]

What do you think he would have signed for?

I think they could have wrapped up Lester for 5/110 during Spring Training. He would have been as happy as a pig in slop at 5/120 and everyone on TalkSox would have thought it to be riduculously high.

[Palodios]

Lester got a 20M signing bonus with the Cubs. 20M straight to your pocket would be pretty damn hard to pass up.

 

The crazy part is that he just sold his home in Newton for $1.85 million.

Even crazier, Chicago real estate is much cheaper than Boston real estate.

[seabeachfred]

I like Masterson too so I guess that makes me a boot licker and ball washer.

 

In any case I would not mind having either on the Sox. You pointed out that Masterson only cost money and that is a legitimate consideration.

 

Negtive Spud. That does not describe you at all. You and others stuck it out this past season and weren't afraid to let the front office have it when it was necessary while others fled the board when it got too hot here. Masterson would be a good No. 5 and possibility a 4 if he makes a decent comeback. He is not an ace or a number two and he still can't get lefthanders out to save his ass. I want Hamels and Shields. One will cost p rospects and one will cost a lot of money now. If we want to win we cannot nickel and dime our way to a World Series. It just can't be done. We tried it in '09 with over the hill Smoltz and the worthless Penny. What we got was our assed handed to us.

[a700hitter]

The Cubs are looking to compete, in the same division as the Reds. The majority of the Reds pitching staff is a free agent in 2015. They have a good amount of incentive to try to blow it up a year early.

I don't agree. I don't think the Cubs have gone from last place to poerhouse favorites at this point-- not to an extent where the rest of the division will be raising white flags before the start of the season. I think that is overstating the case. Cueto is going to cost us big. We will have to part with Betts or XB in addition to Cespedes.

[seabeachfred]

Okay, I've done it. I have convinced myself that Cueto is the guy. He's two years younger than Lester. He's on a bad team in a division that just got tougher, and on a team that reportedly already needs to trim 19 million in payroll. The Red Sox have one of the biggest minor league pitching surpluses in the majors. They can afford to extend him.

 

Cecchini + a pitching prospect + a throw-in for Cueto. Cespedes for one of Porcello/Latos/Gallardo in a three team trade. Ben, get it done.

 

I still want Hamels my friend but I think you're suggestion might just work. Cueto is No. 1 and Porcello has shown improvement and G allardo is a good pitcher. Latos? No thanks!!!!!

[Palodios]

The other bright side of the morning is that we all woke up to Jon Lester not being a member of the Yankees.

[a700hitter]

If they just get 4's and 5's it'll be a reprisal of the 05 season. Yuck. No more Wade Millers please!

Any Matt Clements available? At least he had a very hard head.

[a700hitter]

The other bright side of the morning is that we all woke up to Jon Lester not being a member of the Yankees.

Agreed.

[seabeachfred]

Can't be mad at Lester, that's sour grapes. The ownership screwed the pooch here.

 

It's clear that they never really valued Lester and their mediocre offers were just for PR purposes only.

 

I said maybe mvp---I think some will be bitter towards Lester for leaving but I am not and never will be. This is all on the front office. We'll see how our colleagues take to Lester leaving the next day or two. My friend Dupree is pissed off at Jon for le aving and I would think there might be others too. I have enough animus towards Henry and Lucchino with else to spare for Jon or anyone else. Since the Cubs are the team I follow in the NL I'd rather Lester sign there than with the God damn Yankees or God Damn Dodgers. Still, I wish he would have come back to us.

[iortiz]

Is anybody still thinking that Scherzer is going to get more than 200M? I really doubt it.

[Spudboy]

Negtive Spud. That does not describe you at all. You and others stuck it out this past season and weren't afraid to let the front office have it when it was necessary while others fled the board when it got too hot here. Masterson would be a good No. 5 and possibility a 4 if he makes a decent comeback. He is not an ace or a number two and he still can't get lefthanders out to save his ass. I want Hamels and Shields. One will cost p rospects and one will cost a lot of money now. If we want to win we cannot nickel and dime our way to a World Series. It just can't be done. We tried it in '09 with over the hill Smoltz and the worthless Penny. What we got was our assed handed to us.

 

I'm relieved that I'm not viewed as a boot licker or ball washer. Although I do wash my own balls quite thoroughly!

 

Fred I can see the Sox making moves to have a decent ( on paper ) rotation going into the start of 2015. But my guess is that they will be much more involved in building a sound rotation for the future with FA signings in the 2016 class ( guys available in FA after 2015 ).

 

2015 will be another lost year for the Sox in my opinion. They may still go out and spend freely to get two top of rotation arms. But if they don't I will not be surprised.

[BSN07]

I think they could have wrapped up Lester for 5/110 during Spring Training. He would have been as happy as a pig in slop at 5/120 and everyone on TalkSox would have thought it to be riduculously high.

 

Maybe it would have but we don't know what Lester's agents were asking for either. For all we know they could have walked in with some ridiculous demand and the Red Sox countered with their own ridiculous offer. I'm not making excuses for anyone. Just saying we really don't know how it all went down.

 

The Cubs and Sox in the end offered the same base deal. Cubs just dropped a 20M signing bonus and a 7th year option to get it inked. The Sox just aren't as desperate as the Cubs are to win. That may upset some fans but I'm guessing people will still be coming to the Park and watching the games on tv.

 

That and it's still early. Still lots of interesting possibilities when it comes to SP this year and next.

[a700hitter]

Is anybody still thinking that Scherzer is going to get more than 200M? I really doubt it.

I agree. The Sox should go hard for him. I he will sign around $160 million. The Sox can make that committment. Hopefully, the Yankees don't want him.

[seabeachfred]

I agree that they could've avoided all of this by simply offering better last off-season, but the more I look at it, the more I think Lester planned to go to FA all along. If he'd of really taken 5/105 last spring, then a starting offer of 4/70 should've been seen by him/agents as a starting point and not a low ball. Those two deals aren't that far off. Compared to what he ended up with, the original offer is ridiculously low but that includes the benefit of hindsight, something we didn't have last spring. I suspect his agents thought that with a solid season, a 6/150 deal would be attainable and in the end it was. Hence the reason they immediately tabled talks. Had the Sox offered 6/135 instead he would've signed but no reason for us to have done so at this point last year.

 

Chief, I will not try to counter what you just wrote but it does strike me that you are trying to give succor and cover to the front office and this is the fear I have that others will follow suit and do the same. Henry and Lucchino blew this one badly. You don't let your ace walk and then in the fall sign a totally defensive disaster like Ramirez to play a position he has never played before. Now if he hits 35-40 homers, hits 315 and drives in over 120 runs, well we'll see.

[Palodios]

I don't agree. I don't think the Cubs have gone from last place to poerhouse favorites at this point-- not to an extent where the rest of the division will be raising white flags before the start of the season. I think that is overstating the case. Cueto is going to cost us big. We will have to part with Betts or XB in addition to Cespedes.

 

It isn't just the Cubs. The Cardinals and Pirates are big obstacles for the Reds and Brewers to reach the playoffs.

 

The Cubs probably aren't going to win the division next year. However, they are a team that are no longer pushovers. Rizzo hit 32 home runs at first last year, Soler is looking like the real deal. Castro is very good. They need a #2 pitcher to go with Lester and Hammels, but I would be surprised if they didn't add one more.

[dupree]

The other bright side of the morning is that we all woke up to Jon Lester not being a member of the Yankees.

Well said Pal.

[iortiz]

Henry and Co screwed the pooch on this one. They had a chance to offer Jon a 5yr $100-$110 mil contract extension and instead they cheated out. Then, they get in a bidding war where every single outlet was pointing to $150 mil and 6yrs being the target and they come up $15 mil short. Now, all they are left with is Cespedes, who has no position right now and has lost value in the process due to his defensive and attitude concerns. The sox also lost in the court of public opinion when they put out their new "philosophy" and then went against it 5 months later with their bid on Jon. They'll try to spin this, but the moment they offered him a garbage deal was the day their chance at a discount dried up. Now, you're talking about Shields? You mean Small Game James? A guy who's gonna get 5 or 6 yrs on the open market and is 2 years older? Shields is going to get at least 5yrs and $90 mil

Agreed. Nothing more to say... This FO screwed this big time.

 

Wonder if they are interested in pursuit Scherzer.

[MNSoxChief102]

Would anyone here really be happy this morning if we had signed Lester to the deal the Cubs did? $26 million a season is a s*** ton of money for him... not trying to discount what he's done in his career but I don't think he's worth anywhere near that kind of coin. 2nd highest AAV for a pitcher only behind Kershaw. Lester is good but he's not Kershaw good.

 

Sox offer at 6/135 was more than fair IMO

[BSN07]

I don't agree. I don't think the Cubs have gone from last place to poerhouse favorites at this point-- not to an extent where the rest of the division will be raising white flags before the start of the season. I think that is overstating the case. Cueto is going to cost us big. We will have to part with Betts or XB in addition to Cespedes.

 

Then they won't be getting Cueto either if that's the case. It would be absurd to trade either of those 2 for a 1 year rental. Cueto isn't taking a hometown extension offer either. If he's traded he's gonna want to go to FA and he will be right up in the 130-150M deals if he has a good walk year. I think Latos should be the top target on the Reds.

[a700hitter]

Maybe it would have but we don't know what Lester's agents were asking for either. For all we know they could have walked in with some ridiculous demand and the Red Sox countered with their own ridiculous offer. I'm not making excuses for anyone. Just saying we really don't know how it all went down.

 

The Cubs and Sox in the end offered the same base deal. Cubs just dropped a 20M signing bonus and a 7th year option to get it inked. The Sox just aren't as desperate as the Cubs are to win. That may upset some fans but I'm guessing people will still be coming to the Park and watching the games on tv.

 

That and it's still early. Still lots of interesting possibilities when it comes to SP this year and next.

They would have wrapped him up with a bow and a smile in March for $120 and it would have been considered high. It would have saved him from the stress of having to perform in a contract year and risk injury. That would have gotten it done without any doubt. Is it conjecture on my part, yes, but in March such an offer would have been uniformly considered as extravagant. That would not have been a discount. The Sox let the market develop and grow and some seasons the market can get ridiculously high. This was one of those seasons.

[BSN07]

Would anyone here really be happy this morning if we had signed Lester to the deal the Cubs did? $26 million a season is a s*** ton of money for him... not trying to discount what he's done in his career but I don't think he's worth anywhere near that kind of coin. 2nd highest AAV for a pitcher only behind Kershaw. Lester is good but he's not Kershaw good.

 

Sox offer at 6/135 was more than fair IMO

 

Sox offer was fair. Cubs had to go overboard to beat it.

 

I would have been happy with the deal for the next 2 maybe 3 years. After that I'd be hoping it wasn't a CC type anchor.

[seabeachfred]

I'm relieved that I'm not viewed as a boot licker or ball washer. Although I do wash my own balls quite thoroughly!

 

Fred I can see the Sox making moves to have a decent ( on paper ) rotation going into the start of 2015. But my guess is that they will be much more involved in building a sound rotation for the future with FA signings in the 2016 class ( guys available in FA after 2015 ).

 

2015 will be another lost year for the Sox in my opinion. They may still go out and spend freely to get two top of rotation arms. But if they don't I will not be surprised.

 

Good Spud---don't miss a spot either. As for more mundane things, I still demand the team get the pitchers to help us win the AL East next year and get us into the post season. Call me selfish for wanting it but after the totally s***** season the team gave their fans this year I believe we should be entitled to a complete comeback in 2015, and, no, I do not want to wait until 2016.

[BSN07]

They would have wrapped him up with a bow and a smile in March for $120 and it would have been considered high. It would have saved him from the stress of having to perform in a contract year and risk injury. That would have gotten it done without any doubt. Is it conjecture on my part, yes, but in March such an offer would have been uniformly considered as extravagant. That would not have been a discount. The Sox let the market develop and grow and some seasons the market can get ridiculously high. This was one of those seasons.

 

True. Market may be a bit better next year for top tier SP as it looks to have a bit more depth compared to this years class.

[Bellhorn04]

I agree. The Sox should go hard for him. I he will sign around $160 million. The Sox can make that committment. Hopefully, the Yankees don't want him.

 

You really think he's going to only get $5 million more than Lester? I'll be shocked if that happens.

[iortiz]

I agree. The Sox should go hard for him. I he will sign around $160 million. The Sox can make that committment. Hopefully, the Yankees don't want him.

 

At this point my 200 M take it or leave it offer seems like massively overpaid offer to me LOL!

 

I really really really doubt he gets more than 200M; and if so, I do not see a 50 M-value + gap between him and Lester by any means.

 

Agree, we should go after him or at least try... Seems like only Detrot is seriously in the pursuit. The bad thing is that probably more teams will be added in that wagon. Things for the Sox could turn complicated in the pursuit of elite pitching, we'll see though.

Edited December 10, 2014 by iortiz

[mvp 78]

I said maybe mvp---I think some will be bitter towards Lester for leaving but I am not and never will be. This is all on the front office. We'll see how our colleagues take to Lester leaving the next day or two. My friend Dupree is pissed off at Jon for le aving and I would think there might be others too. I have enough animus towards Henry and Lucchino with else to spare for Jon or anyone else. Since the Cubs are the team I follow in the NL I'd rather Lester sign there than with the God damn Yankees or God Damn Dodgers. Still, I wish he would have come back to us.

 

I was agreeing with your point Mr Cubs fan.

 

I don't have a #2 team. It's BoSox uber alles for me. In college football I can root for all Pac 12 teams, but can't do that with pro sports. If the Sox are out of it, I lose interest and want the whole league to crash into a mountain and eat itself.

[BSN07]

Good Spud---don't miss a spot either. As for more mundane things, I still demand the team get the pitchers to help us win the AL East next year and get us into the post season. Call me selfish for wanting it but after the totally s***** season the team gave their fans this year I believe we should be entitled to a complete comeback in 2015, and, no, I do not want to wait until 2016.

 

I think all of us want the team to be competitive every year. It's not selfish, it's being a fan. Just when it doesn't happen we deal with it differently.