The rebuild thread.

[Palodios]

Could you guys advise me as to what the Sox are likely to do with Victorino, if he is done, done, done as I suspect?

 

He's either hurt, or he's not. If his back is still an issue, he stays on the DL most of the year. Otherwise, he's still a very useful player, adding a solid platoon split against lefties, a good arm, range, speed. Pretty much all the things you want in a defensive replacement/pinch runner/platoon type bench guy.

[Spudboy]

He's either hurt, or he's not. If his back is still an issue, he stays on the DL most of the year. Otherwise, he's still a very useful player, adding a solid platoon split against lefties, a good arm, range, speed. Pretty much all the things you want in a defensive replacement/pinch runner/platoon type bench guy.

 

And a bargain at only $13. mil.!!!!!!

[jacksonianmarch]

Question about what may happen with Victorino:

 

Where my modern baseball knowledge is at its worst is about the rules involving people under contract. Regarding Victorino, in some sense I worry most about what the Sox do with this guy, not Bradley. Bradley had an even worse B.A. in Pawtucket than in the Bigs since he went back down, which would be expected if he is tinkering with his swing to become an out and out banjo hitter with no hope of power. Maybe JBJ will learn how to do this, and then he could be valuable. There have been such outfielders with successful careers.

 

But because of Victorino's age and injuries I think we will be stuck with Victorino as someone adding to the outfield backlog, unless...

 

(1) We can put Victorino on waivers and someone takes him. Could this work if the RS pay some of his salary??

 

(2) If we have to pay Victorino could the RS send him to the minors anyway?

 

(3) Finally, there is some evidence that once a major league team invests money in someone they will tend to stick with that player against all reason. In 2011, Adam Dunn had a year in which he was kept on the roster of the White Sox and batted .159, hit 11 home runs, had 177 strike outs, had only 42 RBIs and committed 60 outfield errors . But he played on in the majors in any case.

 

Could you guys advise me as to what the Sox are likely to do with Victorino, if he is done, done, done as I suspect?

 

1. Waivers only works if a team takes his entire salary, which wont happen. If the sox take on some salary, they have to do it in a trade.

 

2. As a veteran signed to a big league contract, the only way he can be sent to the minors is with his consent

 

3. The sox are likely to let him recoup his value next yr, and if they aren't contenders, get something for him at the deadline. Otherwise, they'll let him play himself into zero worth and release him

[vjcsmoke]

If Middlebrooks wants to salvage his career he better be on the darn bus or plane when Winter Ball starts. They might be able to give him some kind of regimen where he plays less so that he has more time in between to heal, but he better play ball if he wants to get better and show the brass that he WANTS to get better. And if the vision issues as rumored are true, he better darn well get Lasik surgery in the offseason if he can't wear contacts.

 

PS In a trade for Giancarlo Stanton, I'd say there's really not a player who is off-limits right now. Assuming we extend him long-term, Stanton would solidify our lineup for the next generation of Red Sox teams.

[a700hitter]

Posted by Jeff Todd on Tuesday Sep 9th at 8:28pm

The*Marlins plan to*offer Giancarlo Stanton a deal that would make him the highest-paid player in team history, according to Bob Nightengale of USA Today.

Stanton is a pipedream for us. Edited September 10, 2014 by a700hitter

[jacksonianmarch]

The Marlins have the money and if they don't make an effort to bring their payroll up to snuff, they'll be penalized by the MLB

[Station 13]

Stanton isn't going to sign with the Marlins. He seen it all with their 2012 off-season schemes, only to completely blow it up in the off-season.

[Spudboy]

Stanton will probably land with the Cubs or Dodgers.

[jacksonianmarch]

If Stanton hits the open market, he's a Yankee

[Bellhorn04]

If Stanton hits the open market, he's a Yankee

 

How likely is it he hits the open market?

[Palodios]

If Stanton hits the open market, he's a Yankee

 

The Yankees weren't willing to break 200 for Cano, why do you think they'd spend the 300-350 to get 26 year old Stanton?

[Spudboy]

If Stanton hits the open market, he's a Yankee

 

What can the Yankees send to Miami in return?

[Spitball]

What can the Yankees send to Miami in return?

 

He is talking about the free agent market.

[Palodios]

I don't know if it is any consolation, but Bogaerts has a 1.000 OPS in the month of September.

[a700hitter]

I don't know if it is any consolation, but Bogaerts has a 1.000 OPS in the month of September.

Hopefully, it is a sign that he is finally figuring out things.

[vjcsmoke]

The Yankees weren't willing to break 200 for Cano, why do you think they'd spend the 300-350 to get 26 year old Stanton?

 

A 31 year old Cano seeking a 10 year deal is different from a 25 year old Stanton who is in his young prime. Yankees paid top dollar for AROD's deal and for Teixeira.

 

I wouldn't put it past the Yankees to ink Stanton to a huge deal if he made it to free agency. We're not going to win that bidding war. The only way Stanton realistically gets to the Red Sox would be via trade with the Marlins and we negotiate a long term deal that satisfies Stanton to stay.

 

It's too bad we couldn't get him before he completely blew up statistically.

Anyways here's an article that gives a different viewpoint - a skeptical one about whether the Marlins will actually give Stanton the big contract that he desires.

Not to mention even if it is enough money, he probably won't get the No Trade Clause.

 

http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/pulp/2014/09/why_the_marlins_giving_giancarlo_stanton_the_largest_contract_in_team_history_is_a_load_of_crap.php

Edited September 11, 2014 by vjcsmoke

[a700hitter]

I wonder what it would take to get Smarzdjia from the A's. He has one year left under their control. The guy would fill our 3rd slot nicely. If we ate most of Buch's salary and sent a mid-level prospect, that might get it done.

[Station 13]

I wonder what it would take to get Smarzdjia from the A's. He has one year left under their control. The guy would fill our 3rd slot nicely. If we ate most of Buch's salary and sent a mid-level prospect, that might get it done.

 

 

A top prospect. The A's gave up a top 5 for him. I think we should turn our attention to the Mets, they're deep with pitching.

[Palodios]

I am still convinced the big fish are in Cincinnati and Philadelphia. Samardzija/Harvey are going to cost Owens/Betts.

[a700hitter]

I am still convinced the big fish are in Cincinnati and Philadelphia. Samardzija/Harvey are going to cost Owens/Betts.

Owens and Betts or just one of them? I'd be willing to part with one but not both.

[Spudboy]

I say Betts is untouchable. I have also said recently that Owens is too. I'm not sure about that one now, though.

 

I still think that while the shine has come off some of the prospects, the Sox have plenty of bargaining power to get a guy like Hamels.

 

Shields looked dominant against Detroit last night. I wonder if the Sox would be willing to pay for him at his age.

[Bellhorn04]

Shields looked dominant against Detroit last night. I wonder if the Sox would be willing to pay for him at his age.

 

This question is sort of the new version of 'Why not us?'.

[Spitball]

From MLBTradeRumors.com

 

Red Sox Preparing For Major Free Agent Spending

 

By Jeff Todd [september 11, 2014 at 1:09pm CDT]

 

 

Red Sox chairman Tom Werner said today in an appearance on WEEI’s Dennis & Callahan (via WEEI.com’s Jerry Spar) that his club is prepared to spend a significant amount of money on the upcoming free agent market. “[W]e are determined to get back to being in first next year,” said Werner.

 

Citing the “extreme flexibility” that the club was able to achieve in the famous 2012 August blockbuster with the Dodgers, Werner said that the organization is prepared to open the pocketbook this winter. “I wouldn’t say that we have limitless money, but we’ve got a lot of money to spend and we’re determined to go into the free agent market and improve the team.”

 

Indeed, after entering this year with about $156MM in MLB payroll, about $20MM off of the team’s 2012 high water mark, Boston has just under $106MM committed for 2015 and does not have any high-dollar arbitration cases to account for. But the team’s true flexibility is all the more evident looking further into the future: it has annual guarantees of no more than about $37MM on the books past next year.

 

So how will the team look to allocate its future resources? In part, it seems, the organization may have added motivation to invest in established players to ensure a quality product. (Werner called this season “a nightmare,” and noted that late-season games are “just not a good experience for the fans.”) Boston went into this season hoping to make another World Series run on the back of repeat performances from veterans and steps forward for younger players. “I know it’s always difficult to break a few rookies into your lineup,” acknowledged Werner. “… But I think we probably put too much stock in the replacements that we expected to come out and perform.” Nevertheless, Werner said that he and the rest of the organization remains confident that youthful contributors like Xander Bogaerts and Mookie Betts will play an important role in the immediate future.

 

Immediate priorities will, of course, be dictated in part by the team’s recent actions. Dealing away free agent-to-be Jon Lester, rather than extending him, created space at the top of the rotation but also brought in Yoenis Cespedes for at least one full season at Fenway. Likewise, Allen Craig provides a veteran bounceback candidate in the outfield. And the recent signing of Cuban free agent Rusney Castillo also adds to the crowded mix of outfield options.

 

That leaves the obvious area of immediate focus on pitching. “We know we have to add some front-line talent,” said Werner. “We spent some time over the last few weeks talking about exactly what we can do to improve. I think that our trades at the end of July attacked the fact that we had a lack of offense. … But we know we need some front-line pitching talent.” It is worth noting that, in addition to parting with veteran starters Lester and John Lackey, the club will also need to replace (or bring back) key relievers such as Koji Uehara and Andrew Miller (among others).

[Spudboy]

Yawn.

[a700hitter]

“… But I think we probably put too much stock in the replacements that we expected to come out and perform.” Nevertheless, Werner said that he and the rest of the organization remains confident that youthful contributors like Xander Bogaerts and Mookie Betts will play an important role in the immediate future.

It should be noted that he didn't mention Bradley or Middle stinks. They are toast.

[curiousd]

The Yankees have scored 9 more runs than the Red Sox and they are only marginally better in ERA ranking and run differential ranking, but yet they are 12 games better than us in the loss column. I think that has to be attributed largely to the managers.

 

I have heard variants of the following argument advanced by both the RS T.V. announcers and then yesterday independently by the Yankee announcers: Whereas middle relievers were once generally failed starters or closers, now teams are stocking up with power arms trained for lights out middle relief. Therefore, the old "Money ball" mantra....have long at bats, OBP rules.......is the wave of the past. The idea was always to get the starter out of the game, but now be careful of what you wish for. With the Yankees, the guy who goes in before Robertson is Betances! You get the idea.

 

I have noticed that with Girardi, if his bullpen is fresh enough he does not mess around with irrelevancies (for the Yankees) about letting the SP pitch through five innings to qualify for a win. He commonly will pull the SP after 2, 3 innings and then begin the relief parade. See the URL:

 

http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2014/1/13/5296618/why-the-stat-of-pitching-wins-is-obsolete-in-one-graph

 

This URL shows that the number of innings the starter pitches versus year graph has reached a flat minimum between five and six innings. Such a curve may be due to too much managing based on an out dated doctrine? Perhaps, even in the minor leagues the RS are training their hitters based on an out of date baseball strategy? One could analyze all this in statistical detail, were there an interest.

[Bellhorn04]

I have heard variants of the following argument advanced by both the RS T.V. announcers and then yesterday independently by the Yankee announcers: Whereas middle relievers were once generally failed starters or closers, now teams are stocking up with power arms trained for lights out middle relief. Therefore, the old "Money ball" mantra....have long at bats, OBP rules.......is the wave of the past. The idea was always to get the starter out of the game, but now be careful of what you wish for. With the Yankees, the guy who goes in before Robertson is Betances! You get the idea.

 

Maybe, but it worked superbly for the 2013 Red Sox.

[d-money]

I would approve of going after shields but it depends on the years.

[d-money]

What would it take to get chapman from cincy? Would they be willing to part with him for prospects?

[Behindenemylines]

A 31 year old Cano seeking a 10 year deal is different from a 25 year old Stanton who is in his young prime. Yankees paid top dollar for AROD's deal and for Teixeira.

 

I wouldn't put it past the Yankees to ink Stanton to a huge deal if he made it to free agency. We're not going to win that bidding war. The only way Stanton realistically gets to the Red Sox would be via trade with the Marlins and we negotiate a long term deal that satisfies Stanton to stay.

 

It's too bad we couldn't get him before he completely blew up statistically.

Anyways here's an article that gives a different viewpoint - a skeptical one about whether the Marlins will actually give Stanton the big contract that he desires.

Not to mention even if it is enough money, he probably won't get the No Trade Clause.

 

http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/pulp/2014/09/why_the_marlins_giving_giancarlo_stanton_the_largest_contract_in_team_history_is_a_load_of_crap.php

 

Already starting to see writers writing about how the beaning Stanton took this week might have an effect on him long term. Many hitters were never the same after such an injury. Would the Marlins try to unload him this off season to get the biggest load of prospects with the belief that Stanton might not come back the same player?