The rebuild thread.

[Northern Star]

Do we need to replace our hitting coach?

 

We need to replace some of our hitters.

[InfernoOrangeSS]

Greg Colbrunn had a brain hemorrhage back in July. While not an excuse for bad hitting, I would believe there is a strong correlation between his misfortune, and this offense's misfortune.

 

I was not aware of that. I hope he is ok.

[seabeachfred]

I agree that our offense looks like it has had a stroke.

 

Ted---today on the tube the Angels station replayed yesterday's game with our team.....and I decided to put my old coaching cap on and really try to zero in on WMB, X and AOJ. I saw little that I would make of Will save for the fact that he has to look for the fastball, adjust for the curve and stay the hell away from the breaking ball on the outside. He might also move a tad close to the plate so if he goes for that outside pitch he hits it in the strike zone. Pretty simple stuff. As for Xander, believe it or not, he looks to me like he doesn't want to be at the plate and actually feels for the bat instead of attacking it. He seems to sweep his bat instead of hammering with it.

 

Then there is Bradley. My God, I didn't notice before because I never concentrated on him since I was watching the whole game. I noticed his open stance, kind of reminded me of Carl Crawford and he seemed to be a dollar short in getting his front leg into the hitting position. Then his swing!!! Ah caromba!!!! He has developed a long uppercut swing, and he seems to be trying to pull everything. For a guy with a slow bat that is fatal to put it mildly, especially since he seems to also wrap the bat around his shoulder. Hell, the guy needs to shorten his swing, close his stance and try like hell to go up the middle. Would that turn him around? Who knows, but what I do know is what he's doing now will net him nothing. I wonder if anyone else has noticed those things? I have to believe somebody on the Red Sox has noticed that. Is it possible Jackie is ignoring what the coaches are telling him? It's a riddle.

[a700hitter]

People tend to think that a guy as athletically gifted as Bradley will learn to become an adequate hitter. It is hard to comprehend that a guy that can field so well is so inept with the bat. It has always puzzled me. I have seen a few of them-- Mark Belanger and Buddy Harrelson to name a couple. The best CFer that I saw play was Paul Blair. Although he was known for his glove, he was proficient with the bat before he got beaned. After he got beaned, he was still much better than AOJ has been.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Ted---today on the tube the Angels station replayed yesterday's game with our team.....and I decided to put my old coaching cap on and really try to zero in on WMB, X and AOJ. I saw little that I would make of Will save for the fact that he has to look for the fastball, adjust for the curve and stay the hell away from the breaking ball on the outside. He might also move a tad close to the plate so if he goes for that outside pitch he hits it in the strike zone. Pretty simple stuff. As for Xander, believe it or not, he looks to me like he doesn't want to be at the plate and actually feels for the bat instead of attacking it. He seems to sweep his bat instead of hammering with it.

 

Then there is Bradley. My God, I didn't notice before because I never concentrated on him since I was watching the whole game. I noticed his open stance, kind of reminded me of Carl Crawford and he seemed to be a dollar short in getting his front leg into the hitting position. Then his swing!!! Ah caromba!!!! He has developed a long uppercut swing, and he seems to be trying to pull everything. For a guy with a slow bat that is fatal to put it mildly, especially since he seems to also wrap the bat around his shoulder. Hell, the guy needs to shorten his swing, close his stance and try like hell to go up the middle. Would that turn him around? Who knows, but what I do know is what he's doing now will net him nothing. I wonder if anyone else has noticed those things? I have to believe somebody on the Red Sox has noticed that. Is it possible Jackie is ignoring what the coaches are telling him? It's a riddle.

 

Listened to a podcast yesterday with Alex Speier (who is excellent). He said he has had discussions with Xander and asked him if his offensive woes correlate to getting moved around the infield. XB continues to deny that being the reason and said that his top hand isn't coming through the zone like it always has, and so he's not striking the ball like he always has. Sounds, at least to me, like a bit of a mechanical flaw.

 

The good news is that mechanical flaws tend to always work out. XB has the bat speed and plate discipline to become a star. JBJ has the plate discipline but the bat speed is lacking. WMB has the bat speed but the plate discipline is lacking. XB can (and will) work his way out of this funk. I do pin some of his struggles on Colbrunn, although that's not really fair given his medical conditions. Either way, his mechanics will get worked out and he'll be fine.

 

Bat speed and plate discipline, though? Those are things that either you have or you don't, and it's excessively difficult to coach and implement these areas.

 

XB will be fine, guaranteed. JBJ and WMB? I'm very, very concerned.

[Thunder]

Mets just put Granderson on waivers. Think Cherington will go get him?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Mets just put Granderson on waivers. Think Cherington will go get him?

 

I certainly hope not. He's a pull hitter and balls don't leave Fenway in RF very often. Plus, low average, high K's. He's Napoli from the left side without the monster to help his BABIP.

 

EDIT: His K% is lower than I thought (22%) but the past 2 years it's been over 28%. Pass.

[Bellhorn04]

I certainly hope not. He's a pull hitter and balls don't leave Fenway in RF very often. Plus, low average, high K's. He's Napoli from the left side without the monster to help his BABIP.

 

Now hold it right there (big Napoli fan here) - Mike's road OPS is higher than his home OPS since joining the Sox.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Now hold it right there (big Napoli fan here) - Mike's road OPS is higher than his home OPS since joining the Sox.

 

I love Nap! But the monster does help his average on balls in play. .365 BABIP at home, .330 on the road.

[BSN07]

I agree that our offense looks like it has had a stroke.

 

I lol'd

[Bellhorn04]

I love Nap! But the monster does help his average on balls in play. .365 BABIP at home, .330 on the road.

 

Ah, but last year his BABIP was .338 at home and .397 on the road.

[Spitball]

In defense of Jackie Bradley, Jr.and Xander Bogaerts, I see plenty of hope. I have been a Red Sox fan since the 1962 season. I have seen a lot of young players come up and struggle before developing into stars. Minor league statistics are a better indicator of future major league success than one major league season.

 

Jackie Bradley, Jr. has struggled mightily, but he slashed .297/.404/.471 in three minor league seasons. Bogaerts minor league slash was .296/.373/.489 .

 

At 23 years old, Rico Petrocelli slashed .238/.295/.383. His minor league slash was .250/.334/.441 and his major league slash was .251/.332/.420.

 

Reggie Smith's rookie season saw him at .246/.315/.389. In the minors, .285/.353/.464 and in the majors, .281/.366/.489.

 

George Scott had two good seasons before he was JBJ's age of 24. In 1968, he slashed .171/.336/.237 in the majors. In the minors, he slashed .294/.330/.492 and in the majors his career slash was .268/.333/.435.

 

Things are not going well now for Bradley and Bogaerts , but I have learned that early struggles by a youngster is often about learning to hit. Minor league stats are a better indicator of future success than early career struggles.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Spitball

[a700hitter]

In defense of Jackie Bradley, Jr.and Xander Bogaerts, I see plenty of hope. I have been a Red Sox fan since the 1962 season. I have seen a lot of young players come up and struggle before developing into stars. Minor league statistics are a better indicator of future major league success than one major league season.

 

Jackie Bradley, Jr. has struggled mightily, but he slashed .297/.404/.471 in three minor league seasons. Bogaerts minor league slash was .296/.373/.489 .

 

At 23 years old, Rico Petrocelli slashed .238/.295/.383. His minor league slash was .250/.334/.441 and his major league slash was .251/.332/.420.

 

Reggie Smith's rookie season saw him at .246/.315/.389. In the minors, .285/.353/.464 and in the majors, .281/.366/.489.

 

George Scott had two good seasons before he was JBJ's age of 24. In 1968, he slashed .171/.336/.237. In the minors, he slashed .294/.330/.492 and in the majors, .268/.333/.435.

 

Things are not going well now for Bradley and Bogaerts , but I have learned that early struggles by a youngster is often about learning to hit. Minor league stats are a better indicator of future success than early career struggles.

There is no comparison between Bradley and those guys. First of all, each of them broke into the majors in a pitching dominated era before the mound was lowered. In Boomer's rookie season, he hit 27 homers. Reggie smith hit 15 homers in his rookie year and Rico hit 13 homers. Each had OPS ed over .700. Bradley is OPSing at .571. He is the most over-hyped rookie that I can remember. With regard to CF, my optimism is that Victorino will be healthy in 2015.

[Northern Star]

Every day that goes by, I am more convinced that WMB is not a major league ballplayer.

[Spitball]

There is no comparison between Bradley and those guys. First of all, each of them broke into the majors in a pitching dominated era before the mound was lowered. In Boomer's rookie season, he hit 27 homers. Reggie smith hit 15 homers in his rookie year and Rico hit 13 homers. Each had OPS ed over .700. Bradley is OPSing at .571. He is the most over-hyped rookie that I can remember. With regard to CF, my optimism is that Victorino will be healthy in 2015.

 

I usually ignore your arrogant misinformation, but the correlation between minor league performance and major league expectation transcends eras.

[a700hitter]

I usually ignore your arrogant misinformation, but the correlation between minor league performance and major league expectation transcends eras.[/QUote]The statistical support for your case is bogus, and you are a dick that transcends eras.

Edited August 13, 2014 by a700hitter

[seabeachfred]

Listened to a podcast yesterday with Alex Speier (who is excellent). He said he has had discussions with Xander and asked him if his offensive woes correlate to getting moved around the infield. XB continues to deny that being the reason and said that his top hand isn't coming through the zone like it always has, and so he's not striking the ball like he always has. Sounds, at least to me, like a bit of a mechanical flaw.

 

The good news is that mechanical flaws tend to always work out. XB has the bat speed and plate discipline to become a star. JBJ has the plate discipline but the bat speed is lacking. WMB has the bat speed but the plate discipline is lacking. XB can (and will) work his way out of this funk. I do pin some of his struggles on Colbrunn, although that's not really fair given his medical conditions. Either way, his mechanics will get worked out and he'll be fine.

 

Bat speed and plate discipline, though? Those are things that either you have or you don't, and it's excessively difficult to coach and implement these areas.

 

XB will be fine, guaranteed. JBJ and WMB? I'm very, very concerned.

 

 

SFF--Bogey got two hits tonight and a key RBI so maybe at long last he MIGHT start coming around. As for the other two, all I can say is that WMB is getting a good look now and he needs to start producing. He needs a strong confidence builder and I suggested on another board that he be moved up to sixth as that confidence push---and was totally shot down. As for Bradley I think that is pretty much a hopeless cause and what I don't want to see is the team giving him another chance to start in CF next season. He has had a good long look and he has not produced. He is an excellent defensive replacement IMHO and nothing else.

[InfernoOrangeSS]

Bradley will come out of his slump.

[a700hitter]

Bradley will come out of his slump.

Sooner or later he has to get a hit, but can he find any sustained success? He is not hitting in bad luck. Pitchers are eating him alive?

[jacksonianmarch]

I have said before and I will say again, Bradley will need to change his approach QUICKLY. He said in ST that he was a "see the ball, hit the ball" kind of player and that he didn't watch film or break down opposing pitchers. If you don't study your craft, it will pass you by

[Bellhorn04]

There is no comparison between Bradley and those guys. First of all, each of them broke into the majors in a pitching dominated era before the mound was lowered. In Boomer's rookie season, he hit 27 homers. Reggie smith hit 15 homers in his rookie year and Rico hit 13 homers. Each had OPS ed over .700. Bradley is OPSing at .571. He is the most over-hyped rookie that I can remember. With regard to CF, my optimism is that Victorino will be healthy in 2015.

 

I will offer one rebuttal on this: Bradley is also breaking into the majors in a pitching dominated era.

 

In 1965 the average AL team scored 3.94 runs per game, and this was before the DH. In 2014, the average AL team is scoring 4.24 runs per game.

 

I do agree that Bradley's lack of power numbers adds to the concern that the kid might not ever be an ML hitter.

[Bellhorn04]

I have said before and I will say again, Bradley will need to change his approach QUICKLY. He said in ST that he was a "see the ball, hit the ball" kind of player and that he didn't watch film or break down opposing pitchers. If you don't study your craft, it will pass you by

 

'See the ball, miss the ball' is not an effective approach, that's for sure.

[Palodios]

I will offer one rebuttal on this: Bradley is also breaking into the majors in a pitching dominated era.

In 1965 the average AL team scored 3.94 runs per game, and this was before the DH. In 2014, the average AL team is scoring 4.24 runs per game.

 

Also remember that there was no DH in 1965. The average NL team in 2014 is scoring 3.95 runs a game, so that is pretty damn close.

[a700hitter]

Also remember that there was no DH in 1965. The average NL team in 2014 is scoring 3.95 runs a game, so that is pretty damn close.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that Bradley's performance is terrible even in the context of 1965. Whether league offense today is the same, better or worse than 1965, Bradley's performance is still really bad.

[Spudboy]

I don't know if Bradley will ever be a productive MLB hitter. He sure is completely lost at the plate. Take a peak at the professional AB Joe Kelly makes. SSS but wow. A pitcher who can hit and beats it out down the line.

 

Maybe he can give Bradley a few pointers.

[Thunder]

I have said before and I will say again, Bradley will need to change his approach QUICKLY. He said in ST that he was a "see the ball, hit the ball" kind of player and that he didn't watch film or break down opposing pitchers. If you don't study your craft, it will pass you by

 

Very good point. I wasn't aware of this before. You can't survive in the majors without watching film. We even watch film on my high school team when there's a pitcher we are going to face that has a good slider or breaking ball.

[InfernoOrangeSS]

Bradley 1 for 3 today.

I called it.

[Spudboy]

Bradley 1 for 3 today.

I called it.

 

He also made two good throws to third.

[Spitball]

The statistical support for your case is bogus...

 

In my opinion, the era would only be significant to the argument if all players were struggling at a similar rate as the league average of that era. It is not really a valid dismissal of my argument. The Reggie Smith actually improved in his second season (1968, The Season of the Pitcher) from his rough rookie season numbers.

 

Players from all eras have had career major league numbers closer to their minor league numbers after struggling offensively as young players. Mike Schmidt, Ozzie Smith, Omar Vizquel, Mike Cameron, Paul Konerko, Alex Gordon, and Jose Batista to name only a few from different eras. And I am not saying Bradley will be Reggie Smith or Paul Konerko-type offensive player...Bradley only has to show improvement to prove my point and justify his place in the line-up. With his defensive, I would say .250/.330/.400 would work.

 

Looking at minor league numbers is far from a perfect indicator of future major league success, and I realize that. However, those numbers can be an indicator of future success despite poor early career numbers, and I look at several players from all eras that have improved significantly from early failures.

 

...and you are a dick that transcends eras.

 

I am sorry you feel this way, but this is why I avoid you. You get mad and call names.

[a700hitter]

He also made two good throws to third.

and he was a good teammate too.

 

He also struck out too.