The Quarter Pole; What's the problem?

[SoxFanForsyth]

You're the one in a panic over nothing.

 

Zing. Good one. I'm not panicked. I just foresee this being an issue again next year that could easily be avoided.

[reYoukilis]

I just think it's a panic move that is going to bite us in the long run.

Its certainly nothing panic worthy. XB looks like he is a natural talent whose confidence wont be shattered by this move or that. As long as hes playing.

[seabeachfred]

Just to be clear, I really hope I'm wrong and moving Bogaerts to 3B doesn't impact him at SS next year, and Drew does great at SS/Bogaerts does great at 3B and while we're at it, give us another WS.

 

I just think it's a panic move that is going to bite us in the long run.

 

If Drew comes and start hacking the Drewites will be doing handstands, but, if as I suspect, he craps in his pants at the plate, it will have a serious ripple effect throughout the lineup. You saw Cecchini today. He made a nice scoop of a ball and turned into a rally killing double play. An inning before he got a double and an RBI. I don't give a hoot in hell what any Drew lover says, his presence in the lineup is going to set us back. He will not hit and we will keep a better hitter on the bench. As it is we have a couple of our key hitters struggling right now. We also have won seven straight with Holt leading off. The worse thing you can do to a suddenly hot team is pull the rug out from under them and mess around with your defense and batting order...... and that's what we'll doing starting tomorrow night. Let's keep our fingers crossed that it doesn't end in disastrous results.

 

And NO, I don't hate Drew. I just believe strongly that we should not have signed him, that we don't need him, and that it will make us weaker, not stronger, and, most importantly, it will have negative long range repercussions for the team.

[User Name]

What you believe is wrong. And Drewites? Please stop.

[mvp 78]

Deadites > Drewites

[SoxFanForsyth]

What you believe is wrong. And Drewites? Please stop.

 

Your whole argument this whole time was:

 

1. Drew was signed, at least in part, because Bogaerts defense was bad.

 

- Wrong, he was signed entirely due to Middlebrooks, as has been reported all over the place (this whole idea of him being signed due to Bogaerts has been a complete fabrication by you or a media member speculation that you bit hook line and sinker) and Bogaerts defense was improving when he was signed and has improved significantly at this point. While UZR and FG Def ratings are limited in predictive value based on SSS, they are NOT limited in reporting past results, and those statistics say Bogaerts not only is improving but has been a better than average SS defensively. This will absolutely stunt his growth at SS, whether you want to believe it or not.

 

2. Bogaerts will continue to play SS against LHP.

 

- Wrong, this was a completely fabricated story that you blindly believed because some media member suggested it. Meanwhile, Farrell comes out and says that Bogaerts will not be hopping back and forth between SS and 3B. So no, he won't get his reps at SS, and yes, unless Drew gets hurt, he's going to have stunted growth that the sox will pay for in 2015.

 

So, based on your history on this subject, I find it comical that you can give a definitive conclusion that Fred is wrong here just because he disagrees with you.

[sk7326]

Farrell will do what makes sense for the team - unless he is bad at his job. Fred clearly is not a fan of Drew - and wants hungry scrappy gamers who eat their vegetables like good Hulkamaniaks. That's fine - and how do you not like what Holt has done. But the probability of it continuing is pretty low.

 

I would have been fine with the Red Sox faking things at 3B until Middlebrooks returns and then riding it out. But there would have been some diminished performance and you are placing a bet on Middlebrooks which is increasingly dicey. However, cutting bait on Middlebrooks is a fair stance - he has regressed badly. Drew-Bogaerts is a solid alignment. Farrell notes that Bogaerts won't be flipping back and forth - but who knows what that means. Ultimately he will do what management tells him, because that's how this thing works. I expect Bogaerts will play SS a significant amount - and frankly, if he is this delicate a flower, he is probably not the guy I thought he was.

 

This team has a chance to repeat - and they owe it to the fans to give it their best attempt (within obvious limits). This absolutely improves the lineup because the upgrade of Bogaerts over a potted plant more than offsets the drop off which Drew represents (if any - he was a Top 10 shortstop last season).

[reYoukilis]

Theres no use in predicting what Holt will do, why not just wait and see? If anything we may win more games that we mightve lost with Drew getting his rhythm, which might be the games that hinges us getting into the playoffs. In other words theres no rush to do anything RIGHT NOW. Anyways if Drew wanted to be our SS he should've taken the QO. Since he didn't we don't owe him anything and should ride what is working.

[User Name]

Your whole argument this whole time was:

 

1. Drew was signed, at least in part, because Bogaerts defense was bad.

 

- Wrong, he was signed entirely due to Middlebrooks, as has been reported all over the place (this whole idea of him being signed due to Bogaerts has been a complete fabrication by you or a media member speculation that you bit hook line and sinker) and Bogaerts defense was improving when he was signed and has improved significantly at this point. While UZR and FG Def ratings are limited in predictive value based on SSS, they are NOT limited in reporting past results, and those statistics say Bogaerts not only is improving but has been a better than average SS defensively. This will absolutely stunt his growth at SS, whether you want to believe it or not.

 

2. Bogaerts will continue to play SS against LHP.

 

- Wrong, this was a completely fabricated story that you blindly believed because some media member suggested it. Meanwhile, Farrell comes out and says that Bogaerts will not be hopping back and forth between SS and 3B. So no, he won't get his reps at SS, and yes, unless Drew gets hurt, he's going to have stunted growth that the sox will pay for in 2015.

 

So, based on your history on this subject, I find it comical that you can give a definitive conclusion that Fred is wrong here just because he disagrees with you.

 

Your entire argument is that Bogaerts is not bad defensively based on a stat that you know is not good on small samples.

 

Let me make it clear here: The current edition of this team is better with Drew at SS and Bogaerts, who, no matter how much you mentally masturbate to the contrary, is not a good defensive SS at the moment.

 

Let's say Drew plays against both righties and lefties (which is not a sure thing, since Farrell will do what's best to the team, and you can't link enough articles to claim otherwise), considering the black hole 3B had been offensively until Holt started hitting, you actually improve on four positions by putting Drew at SS and trying Holt at LF on a vacuum. SS, 3B, LF, UTIL. Holt is a good athlete and he could be a super-utility that bumps Herrera and his uselessness off of this roster.

 

Based on my history on this subject, your chicken little response that is similar to Fred's usual insanity is what's wrong here. Bogaerts is not going to suddenly forget how to play SS, and furthermore, most scouts expected him to end up at 3B in the near-future anyway. This is not rocket science.

Edited June 2, 2014 by User Name?

[User Name]

Farrell will do what makes sense for the team - unless he is bad at his job. Fred clearly is not a fan of Drew - and wants hungry scrappy gamers who eat their vegetables like good Hulkamaniaks. That's fine - and how do you not like what Holt has done. But the probability of it continuing is pretty low.

 

I would have been fine with the Red Sox faking things at 3B until Middlebrooks returns and then riding it out. But there would have been some diminished performance and you are placing a bet on Middlebrooks which is increasingly dicey. However, cutting bait on Middlebrooks is a fair stance - he has regressed badly. Drew-Bogaerts is a solid alignment. Farrell notes that Bogaerts won't be flipping back and forth - but who knows what that means. Ultimately he will do what management tells him, because that's how this thing works. I expect Bogaerts will play SS a significant amount - and frankly, if he is this delicate a flower, he is probably not the guy I thought he was.

 

This team has a chance to repeat - and they owe it to the fans to give it their best attempt (within obvious limits). This absolutely improves the lineup because the upgrade of Bogaerts over a potted plant more than offsets the drop off which Drew represents (if any - he was a Top 10 shortstop last season).

 

All of this, X3.

[Spudboy]

Farrell will do what makes sense for the team - unless he is bad at his job. Fred clearly is not a fan of Drew - and wants hungry scrappy gamers who eat their vegetables like good Hulkamaniaks. That's fine - and how do you not like what Holt has done. But the probability of it continuing is pretty low.

 

I would have been fine with the Red Sox faking things at 3B until Middlebrooks returns and then riding it out. But there would have been some diminished performance and you are placing a bet on Middlebrooks which is increasingly dicey. However, cutting bait on Middlebrooks is a fair stance - he has regressed badly. Drew-Bogaerts is a solid alignment. Farrell notes that Bogaerts won't be flipping back and forth - but who knows what that means. Ultimately he will do what management tells him, because that's how this thing works. I expect Bogaerts will play SS a significant amount - and frankly, if he is this delicate a flower, he is probably not the guy I thought he was.

 

This team has a chance to repeat - and they owe it to the fans to give it their best attempt (within obvious limits). This absolutely improves the lineup because the upgrade of Bogaerts over a potted plant more than offsets the drop off which Drew represents (if any - he was a Top 10 shortstop last season).

 

Again, excellent and accurate post.

[seabeachfred]

Your whole argument this whole time was:

 

1. Drew was signed, at least in part, because Bogaerts defense was bad.

 

- Wrong, he was signed entirely due to Middlebrooks, as has been reported all over the place (this whole idea of him being signed due to Bogaerts has been a complete fabrication by you or a media member speculation that you bit hook line and sinker) and Bogaerts defense was improving when he was signed and has improved significantly at this point. While UZR and FG Def ratings are limited in predictive value based on SSS, they are NOT limited in reporting past results, and those statistics say Bogaerts not only is improving but has been a better than average SS defensively. This will absolutely stunt his growth at SS, whether you want to believe it or not.

 

2. Bogaerts will continue to play SS against LHP.

 

- Wrong, this was a completely fabricated story that you blindly believed because some media member suggested it. Meanwhile, Farrell comes out and says that Bogaerts will not be hopping back and forth between SS and 3B. So no, he won't get his reps at SS, and yes, unless Drew gets hurt, he's going to have stunted growth that the sox will pay for in 2015.

 

So, based on your history on this subject, I find it comical that you can give a definitive conclusion that Fred is wrong here just because he disagrees with you.

 

That's his method of operaton SFF---and how does he know he's right and we're wrong? Why the front office told him what they were doing and he drank the Kool Aid and nodded his approval. This is the same bird who insisted I stop talking about resigning Lester because negotiations for his new contract were ongoing when they had ceased just before the season, something I guess he missed in one of the stories coming out of the front office. Bogaerts should NOT be moved out of shortstop. He has improved there, he likes it there, he is now playing very well and the last thing we need is his being uprooted and moved aside to another position. Those who say it shouldn't effect him forget that baseball is almost as much a mental game as a physical one and only those who haven't either played or coached the game can blithely say that he won't be affected by such a move. There is a very good chance he will be effected and an even better chance that this change in the lineup will have a very deleterious effect on the team. Let's hope not SFF.

[User Name]

Fred, i don't think you quite know what a method of operation is. And your Drew hate is still unreasonable. And you're still wrong.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Nobody is going to have their mind changed here, so we can go back and forth as much as we want but at some point, it's more of an annoyance for everyone to restate their argument over and over in multiple ways than it is an intriguing debate.

 

So, agree to disagree on this, and time will tell.

 

End of story - we all want what is best for the Red Sox, we just disagree on what that is right now, no harm in that.

[VA Sox Fan]

Fred, i don't think you quite know what a method of operation is. And your Drew hate is still unreasonable. And you're still wrong.

 

Nobody is going to have their mind changed here, so we can go back and forth as much as we want but at some point, it's more of an annoyance for everyone to restate their argument over and over in multiple ways than it is an intriguing debate.

 

So, agree to disagree on this, and time will tell.

 

End of story - we all want what is best for the Red Sox, we just disagree on what that is right now, no harm in that.

 

I am cool with that and agree. Could someone get sbf to agree to the same thing? I have no hope where that issue is concerned.

[gojohn99]

Hey we're winning now... no problems!

[Behindenemylines]

The Sox had no problem scoring runs last year and got decent enough pitching to do what they did. This year the lineup is full of holes and it seems the Sox only win when they get a good pitched game. Nap has been hurt, Pedrioa is playing hurt, WMB is hurt, Nava is a no show, Victorino has been hurt, Papi has been hurt, and the Sox lineup doesn't scare anyone.

[a700hitter]

They need to get Victorino back fast and get Bradley out of the lineup. Victorino need to stay on the field for the remainder of the year. With Viic and Napoli back in the lineup, they need to start winning series to turn this around. They need to win 5 of the next six series or something like that to get back to .500 and be in a position to challenge. If they are in the same spot in r weeks, they might as well start loading up the truck and start planning for next season. The first to go should be Peavy and Drew, but I don't think that they can get more than a bucket of spit for either of them. If they are not going to go balls to the wall for Lester in FA, they should move him too instead of playing some sort of disingenuous game in the press that they want to keep him when they don't want to pay they price. I'd like to have a Lamborghini, but It's not in my budget so I don't go around telling friends and family that I am trying to by a Lamborghini. They should have an pretty good idea of how much it will take to sign him and whether that is in their budget. If they are going to let him walk, get something for him other than a draft pick. Cut Ross. Bring up Vasquez. Get Doubs healthy and if he has a couple of good games trade him. Oh and take that Lame horse Buchhoz behind the barn and shoot him. Enough of hm already. Has he pitched more than 2 complete seasons for us? Enough already. Anyway, they should wait about 3 weeks before having a sale.

[seabeachfred]

They need to get Victorino back fast and get Bradley out of the lineup. Victorino need to stay on the field for the remainder of the year. With Viic and Napoli back in the lineup, they need to start winning series to turn this around. They need to win 5 of the next six series or something like that to get back to .500 and be in a position to challenge. If they are in the same spot in r weeks, they might as well start loading up the truck and start planning for next season. The first to go should be Peavy and Drew, but I don't think that they can get more than a bucket of spit for either of them. If they are not going to go balls to the wall for Lester in FA, they should move him too instead of playing some sort of disingenuous game in the press that they want to keep him when they don't want to pay they price. I'd like to have a Lamborghini, but It's not in my budget so I don't go around telling friends and family that I am trying to by a Lamborghini. They should have an pretty good idea of how much it will take to sign him and whether that is in their budget. If they are going to let him walk, get something for him other than a draft pick. Cut Ross. Bring up Vasquez. Get Doubs healthy and if he has a couple of good games trade him. Oh and take that Lame horse Buchhoz behind the barn and shoot him. Enough of hm already. Has he pitched more than 2 complete seasons for us? Enough already. Anyway, they should wait about 3 weeks before having a sale.

 

On the money Ted, an A+ in my book. However, let's break it down and see how feasible this picture you painted is. One..Victorino. Can he stay healthy? He was a ball of fire for us last season and a sound Shane would definitely pay dividends with his defense, speed, hitting and winning attitude. But can we get him to stay in one piece? Bradley has to go. His confidence is just about shot and we can see he can't get around on a good fastball and he makes it worse by swinging harder at them thereby slowing his bat speed, which he doesn't have much of. However, there we have a counterpoint to Farrell. Just as the manager seems to have a man crush on the Manchurian Candidate, Cherington seems hell bent for leather to prove to himself that Bradley is the next coming of something. Believe his benching will not be very long---two or three games at the most and back in center to pollute the lineup with his enormous strikeout totals.

 

Peavy and Drew won't get us a bag of peanuts for them but I'd still take the peanuts since neither is worth s*** to us right now, and the biggest canard perpetrated by the half-ass front office concerns Jon Lester. If John "Prune Face" Henry is too damn cheap to pay the going rate then trade him for something of value instead of a draft pick, a pick that might turn out like Bradley or the immortal Lazy Lars Anderson or Stoly Pimental, or the whole host of other "phenoms" they've hyped who turned out to be total crap. As for the rest, back up the truck.

[mvp 78]

They also hyped Bogaerts. He turned out ok.

 

The hype train for the young pitchers on the farm is still in the station at the moment.

[seabeachfred]

They also hyped Bogaerts. He turned out ok.

 

The hype train for the young pitchers on the farm is still in the station at the moment.

 

We'll get a quick view of your boy Rubby tomorrow. Is he the phenom we saw against Tampa Bay or the inept one we saw against the Tigers. I also think that Owens and Renaudo might just be good young stalwarts for us in the coming years and maybe Barnes as well. We'll certainly need a few of these along with Webster to stand up for us because it now seems certain the Red Sox are too damn cheap to want to sign Lester to a long term contract and as far as I'm concerned Buchholz doesn't seem to able to muster enough of anything to give us the pitcher we sometimes thought we had. Go Rubby tomorrow.

[mvp 78]

Rubby isn't my boy. I just thought he was a bettter option than Buch or Doubs at the time. I honestly haven't seen enough of the guys on the farm to stake my reputation on one over the other. I just go by what others are saying. I personally think they should have more young guys play as the current 25 aren't a playoff team.

[jd98]

We'll get a quick view of your boy Rubby tomorrow. Is he the phenom we saw against Tampa Bay or the inept one we saw against the Tigers. I also think that Owens and Renaudo might just be good young stalwarts for us in the coming years and maybe Barnes as well. We'll certainly need a few of these along with Webster to stand up for us because it now seems certain the Red Sox are too damn cheap to want to sign Lester to a long term contract and as far as I'm concerned Buchholz doesn't seem to able to muster enough of anything to give us the pitcher we sometimes thought we had. Go Rubby tomorrow.

 

I think Rubby looked decent against Detroit. He certainly looked better than Lester the next day. Sometimes you just get hit. It happens. His stuff looked good and he only walked 2. Still too early to tell obviously.

[Palodios]

The next month is absolutely critical for this team. They play a lot of mediocre opponents -- mostly second tier AL West/ AL Central teams. They also have a series against the Cubs. This is the time for them to try and make progress on the division. Call up Mookie for the outfield and see what happens.

[a700hitter]

Here is what needs to be done:

 

1. Cut Ross and bring up Vasquez (There is no down side to this)

2. Send down Nava and let him play his way into oblivion in the minors. His pumpkin is not going to turn back into a chariot.

3. Send down Bradley and hope that he can learn to hit.

4. Get Victorino back and stick him in CF (and put him in bubble wrap when he is not playing).

5. Give Holt the full time LF job.

6. Gomes and Sizemore platoon in RF

7. If Buch can make it back to the starting rotation, dump Peavy who more useless than 2013 Dempster.

8. Rotation should be Lester, Lackey, Workman, Buch and Rubby.

9. Doubs becomes the long man if he makes it back

10. Crapuano gets a one way bus ticket

[VA Sox Fan]

I have no faith in Buch. What so ever.

[a700hitter]

I have no faith in Buch. What so ever.

I have almost no faith in him, but we need to see if he can still pitch. I don't think we can cut bait with him yet.

[a700hitter]

The Red Sox are reportedly trying to convert Wil Middlebrooks to the outfield. They are already in the process of converting Betts. This is an organization that always had so many hammers in the OF that they couldn't find PT for all of them.

[jacksonianmarch]

I find this to be incredibly interesting, as typically when you have a good corner infielder, or at least someone with high upside, you typically do not want to decrease their value by shifting into a corner outfield spot

[a700hitter]

The Red Sox are reportedly trying to convert Wil Middlebrooks to the outfield. They are already in the process of converting Betts. This is an organization that always had so many hammers in the OF that they couldn't find PT for all of them.