The Quarter Pole; What's the problem?

[Bellhorn04]

To be fair, though, the 2012 Sox stuck right around .500 the entire season until Ortiz went down, then they made the trade, and then they just fell on their face.

 

That's right. The 2012 team was still in the chase for a wild card at the end of July. And it's not like Valentine was the main reason for the awful season. But he was certainly bad enough to blow his one and last chance to be an MLB manager.

[User Name]

I think they were comfortable with Drew coming back because Middlebrooks was such a volatile player. And once Drew declined the QO, they didn't make any kind of push for him after that until Middlebrooks went down.

 

Drew is clearly better than Bogaerts defensively, I agree with that, and by signing Drew and moving Bogaerts to 3B, the team is better. But I really believe that if Middlebrooks was producing like he did in 2012, Drew would be still working out without a team to sign him.

 

But no one could be sure he would produce like 2012, and they had their doubts (as did we).

[SoxFanForsyth]

But no one could be sure he would produce like 2012, and they had their doubts (as did we).

 

Right, and I think that's why they made Drew a QO, not because of any doubts about Xander.

[mvp 78]

They gave Drew a QO because they believed someone was going to sign him. Otherwise, they would have not given him a QO and would have negotiated a contract with him.

[Spudboy]

It would be one thing if this team was 8 games back, and everyone was injured. The team is 8 games back, and is healthy, minus a few short DL trips. You cannot win a championship, and then let your team fall off the cliff. I am happy going in either direction -- trading players and stockpiling picks, or shoring up the weakneses and trying to make another run at it.

 

If you think they can wait until 2015 or 2016 to make a run, remember that you may need to replace key pieces like David Ortiz, Koji Uehara, Shane Victorino, Jake Peavy, John Lackey, Jon Lester. That is why it is important to make a run if you can.... plus, the American League seems mediocre outside of Detroit.

 

I said essentially the same thing several days ago. In this market, the fan base expects a team to be competitive and to be in contention for a playoff birth. This is not Houston or K.C.

 

Drew makes the Sox a better team. PERIOD.

 

If poor little Dutch boy has his ego bruised because he had to move 40 feet to the right then I have no use for him on the team that I follow. I think X knows the score.

[User Name]

They gave Drew a QO because they believed someone was going to sign him. Otherwise, they would have not given him a QO and would have negotiated a contract with him.

 

That would make more sense if they'd offered Salty one too. Catcher is an even more scarce position than SS. They were comfortable with paying one 14 million were he not to sign, but not the other, even though the odds were on Salty having an easier time signing even with a QO attached.

[User Name]

Right, and I think that's why they made Drew a QO, not because of any doubts about Xander.

 

No one here has said that the Sox offered Drew a QO because of doubts about XB, so i don't know why you keep sustaining this argument. As i said in a post above, XB's playing time, be it at SS or 3B, was secure no matter what happened with any other player.

[mvp 78]

That would make more sense if they'd offered Salty one too. Catcher is an even more scarce position than SS. They were comfortable with paying one 14 million were he not to sign, but not the other, even though the odds were on Salty having an easier time signing even with a QO attached.

 

I think they thought Salty would accept the $14M and they weren't comfortable paying him that.

[User Name]

I think they thought Salty would accept the $14M and they weren't comfortable paying him that.

 

With such a thin market at C, i highly doubt that. It was him, Mccann, Ruiz, and ?

[mvp 78]

And his contract is 1/2 the AAV of the QO. He would've taken it. He wanted to stay and said so numerous times.

[Spudboy]

They just did not want him. Regardless of price. My opinion.

[Bellhorn04]

They just did not want him. Regardless of price. My opinion.

 

Certainly seems that way. I suspect the opinions of Farrell and the pitching staff, through Farrell, had some impact on it.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Bellhorn04

[User Name]

Well that's the point. They didn't want Salty back, but wouldn't have minded seeing Drew come back, since he's the one who got the QO.

[Spudboy]

Well that's the point. They didn't want Salty back, but wouldn't have minded seeing Drew come back, since he's the one who got the QO.

 

I suspect that you are correct as usual.

 

If they wanted Salty back they would have made the offer. Apparently they probably knew that he would accept otherwise they would have made an offer so they could get a compensatory pick. Can a team receive more than one compensatory pick in the same year?

 

I think that this is ironic because for several years the Sox had a boner for Salty and or Teagarden when they were both young catchers for Texas.

 

They finally got their man, I guess. Then they decided to let him go in favor of roster flexibility and the two young catchers in the system.

 

I am still a fan of his. He has flaws but he was a good team mate and a good citizen. Plus he made strides in both phases of the game while here.

[mvp 78]

I suspect that you are correct as usual.

 

If they wanted Salty back they would have made the offer. Apparently they probably knew that he would accept otherwise they would have made an offer so they could get a compensatory pick. Can a team receive more than one compensatory pick in the same year?

 

I think that this is ironic because for several years the Sox had a boner for Salty and or Teagarden when they were both young catchers for Texas.

 

They finally got their man, I guess. Then they decided to let him go in favor of roster flexibility and the two young catchers in the system.

 

I am still a fan of his. He has flaws but he was a good team mate and a good citizen. Plus he made strides in both phases of the game while here.

 

So you agree with him, but than disagree with him in the second paragraph? Idk.

[sk7326]

With such a thin market at C, i highly doubt that. It was him, Mccann, Ruiz, and ?

 

I think there was some hubris too. They have some legitimate organizational catching depth - and I don't think they wanted to tie up a ton of years at the position anyway. Also the general horribleness of replacement level for that position gave them some room to just play backup level guys and grin and bear it. Salty had a nice year and had a little bit of upside - but if they did not want to commit to him, then there was no point to give him a QO. I did not like the move, but I understand it. Frankly, Pierzynski has been about what he has always been ...

[Spudboy]

Now I'm confused. I think that both username and I agree. The Sox did not make an effort to keep Salty because they did not want him. How is my post ambiguous? I'm not getting defensive. I just don't understand what I said that is confusing.

[mvp 78]

With such a thin market at C, i highly doubt that. It was him, Mccann, Ruiz, and ?

 

In reference to Sox expecting Salty to accept QO.

[mvp 78]

I suspect that you are correct as usual.

 

If they wanted Salty back they would have made the offer. Apparently they probably knew that he would accept otherwise they would have made an offer so they could get a compensatory pick.

 

And this.

 

No big deal.

[Spudboy]

Maybe I just did a poor job of saying what I felt.

[User Name]

I think the point is that of their main FA's, the only one they absolutely did not want back was Salty.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Bogaerts keeps looking better and better at SS. Now has a career +6.1 UZR/150 at SS. And improving seemingly everyday.

 

I would rather see Drew play 3B than Bogaerts.

[sk7326]

Bogaerts keeps looking better and better at SS. Now has a career +6.1 UZR/150 at SS. And improving seemingly everyday.

 

I would rather see Drew play 3B than Bogaerts.

 

Oh no - if Drew is going to play, put him at the position where 3B and SS are optimized, and that is with Drew at SS. I agree with you on Bogaerts long term - but this move did make sense. There are just no good quality 3B to go around, and 3B has been such a disaster. Middlebrooks needs to get back to his old approach - whatever he has done since has been a wild overcorrection. I wish he walked more, but not at the expense of the stuff he was good at.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Oh no - if Drew is going to play, put him at the position where 3B and SS are optimized, and that is with Drew at SS. I agree with you on Bogaerts long term - but this move did make sense. There are just no good quality 3B to go around, and 3B has been such a disaster. Middlebrooks needs to get back to his old approach - whatever he has done since has been a wild overcorrection. I wish he walked more, but not at the expense of the stuff he was good at.

 

I'd rather see how Drew handles 3B and let Bogaerts continue to improve at SS. That's much, much better for the long term success of the Red Sox. Just look at how much he's improved over 2 months. He's the best SS in the American League and the 2nd best SS in all of baseball behind Tulo.

 

He's posted 1.8 WAR in 52 games, basically 1/3 of the season. That's on pace for a 5.4 WAR season. You don't move a 5+ WAR SS off of his position. Especially not one that is still improving and is only 21.

 

This is the equivalent of moving Ellsbury to LF for Cameron.

[sk7326]

Cameron was an elite defender at CF (one who went down the toilet in his Red Sox time - moving Ells to CF was the right move that did not work). I look at it this way - one of the changes involves 0 people learning new positions and one involves 1.5. I'll take the 0. I agree with you in a vacuum - but without any sort of equivalent way of improving 3B out there, this is your best shot at optimizing the WAR of the 2 positions together, Bogaerts can handle the additional offensive expectation a replacement 3B requires. I think there is a chance that Middlebrooks-Bogaerts 3B-SS could be the best combination, but that involves an improvement on WMB's part when he returns that he has not shown any signs of making. Now if you think Cecchini made more sense than signing Drew ... that makes some sense, although clearly risky and lower probability in the short term than the Drew move.

[User Name]

SFF, we get what you're saying, but the Cameron-Drew situations aren't even close. You're looking at this from the wrong angle. The problem here is the black hole at 3B, a problem that XB could fix for the short term without having to sacrifice significant talent to acquire an outside 3B. He will still play SS against lefties, to boot, so it's not like his development will be stunted either way.

[seabeachfred]

Bogaerts keeps looking better and better at SS. Now has a career +6.1 UZR/150 at SS. And improving seemingly everyday.

 

I would rather see Drew play 3B than Bogaerts.

 

We don't know the extent of Pedroia's injury SFF so if he is out for any length of time we are not only in some trouble but Bogaerts would have to play third, Drew at short and assuming Farrell doesn't get a brain cramp, Holt at second instead of the useless and pathetic Herrera. You're right though. All of a sudden Xander does look better at shortstop. Wonder if Drew's signing light a fire under him. Right now he is one of the best players in the league.

[Palodios]

I'd rather see how Drew handles 3B and let Bogaerts continue to improve at SS. That's much, much better for the long term success of the Red Sox. Just look at how much he's improved over 2 months. He's the best SS in the American League and the 2nd best SS in all of baseball behind Tulo.

 

He's posted 1.8 WAR in 52 games, basically 1/3 of the season. That's on pace for a 5.4 WAR season. You don't move a 5+ WAR SS off of his position. Especially not one that is still improving and is only 21.

 

This is the equivalent of moving Ellsbury to LF for Cameron.

 

Stephen Drew had a 3.4 WAR over 124 games last year -- over 150 games, that's a 4 WAR player. By letting Drew take SS, you may be losing offense at SS, but you're significantly improving the defense at SS, significantly improving the offense at 3B, and potentially significantly improving the defense at 3B. This team won a World Series with Drew at SS and Xander at 3B. Don't forget that.

 

 

Also keep in mind that all of the best shortstops in the MLB are injury prone -- Reyes, Tulo, even Drew. The position is very stressful on health. Why risk Xander's health when his future is better off at third?

Edited May 31, 2014 by Palodios

[User Name]

I don't see the correlation between health and playing SS, but the rest of your post is spot on.

[reYoukilis]

Im such a big fan of having a solid defense and with Drew back we may be better than last year, the difference being JBJ in CF. Thisll give our pitching a shot in the arm. Feel bad for XB seeing that hes been nothing but good but having a fields worth of good defending is more important than individual accomplishments. And XB should be at 3rd because hes the better bat.