2014 Roster Projections

[seabeachfred]

I know this is off the subject but I just had to share this with all of you just in case any of you might be interested. On the Red Sox website---Red Sox.com, as you scroll somewhat down the page you'll come to a cartoon of an old type Red Sox fan bearded with nuff ced below the cartoon. Double click on it and you will see a terrific lithograph of the 2013 season measuring about 20 by 28. I sent away for one and now I laminated it and put it on the door to my Red Sox room. It would make a great present to some Red Sox friend or love one of yours and an even better gift for you.

[Palodios]

I know this is off the subject but I just had to share this with all of you just in case any of you might be interested. On the Red Sox website---Red Sox.com, as you scroll somewhat down the page you'll come to a cartoon of an old type Red Sox fan bearded with nuff ced below the cartoon. Double click on it and you will see a terrific lithograph of the 2013 season measuring about 20 by 28. I sent away for one and now I laminated it and put it on the door to my Red Sox room. It would make a great present to some Red Sox friend or love one of yours and an even better gift for you.

 

Fred -- can you send a link to this? I definitely could think of someone to give this to.

[sk7326]

Dojii, I have always maintained that as a clubhouse skipper keeping the press and pressure away from his players Francona was a terrific manager. He let his players play ball and didn't get in their faces and make stupid comments that alienated any of his people, and most importantly he showed terrific loyalty to his men. These are all very highly commendable traits and much of what managing should be. It is as a strategist and field skipper that I had some real doubts about him.....and if you kept up with things the last few years of his tenure in Boston owner John Henry had become very critical of his field managerial skills. Then he completely lost his team when they turned on him with that chicken and beer fest late in the 2011 season. Francona never bunted, said he didn't want to give up outs, yet in six or seven of his years in Boston we led the AL in hitting into double plays, many of them rally killing ones. He never used the hit and run much, and even when teams paid little attention to Boston runners he never moved them. It was station-to-station ball all the way with him, and if you remember the sudden death game the Guardians played against the Rays in October, once again with men on base he never once tried a steal, a hit and run or a bunt. The result was a number of strikeouts and I believe two double plays. I readily give credit to Terry in areas where he was strong but I don't hesitate to point out where I think he was deficient.

 

His teams led the league in runs (or near it) virtually every year he was there. He did not hit and run much - although they ran as much as they did this year. He believed in getting baserunners on, and letting good hitters hit. Is that a bad thing in some games? Possibly - but for the most part that is how you score, and it's the game that Earl Weaver cracked many moons ago. He actually got better strategically as he learned how to work with the data - put the right lineups in there more consistently, and ran the bullpen better. For the whining about 2011, 2010 was probably his very best managing job. Did he get stupid when they went 81-42 in their 4 healthy months of the season? The collapse in 2011 was a number of factors, but players falling apart had a lot more to do with it, but the fans wanted someone to pay - although to their credit most of them knew Tito to Valentine was a strange shift at best. As someone who has been a fan since 1986 - he is far and away the best manager this team has had ... it's not really close, although Jimy Williams does not get as much credit as he deserves (partially due to being kind of a weirdo media-wise).

[sk7326]

None is the type of weapon that Ellsbury is. They are situational base stealers for the most part-- they take advantages of lapses by the pitchers. Ellsbury was a guy that the pitchers knew would be stealing and they still could not stop him -- not even with a pitchout. Yes, Victorino and Pedroia can steal bases, but they can't win showdowns with the oppositions pitchers and catchers like Ells could. As for JBJ, I don't know if he can steal bases effectively.

 

Stolen bases are nice if you have them for sure. They are generally not very important in the run scoring pursuit Sox in the last decade have done it both ways. Generally 3-run homers are still more effective. Bradley won't be Ellsbury as a base-stealer. But if he can advance to 3rd on a single and score on a double regularly enough, that is more than sufficient.

[User Name]

His teams led the league in runs (or near it) virtually every year he was there. He did not hit and run much - although they ran as much as they did this year. He believed in getting baserunners on, and letting good hitters hit. Is that a bad thing in some games? Possibly - but for the most part that is how you score, and it's the game that Earl Weaver cracked many moons ago. He actually got better strategically as he learned how to work with the data - put the right lineups in there more consistently, and ran the bullpen better. For the whining about 2011, 2010 was probably his very best managing job. Did he get stupid when they went 81-42 in their 4 healthy months of the season? The collapse in 2011 was a number of factors, but players falling apart had a lot more to do with it, but the fans wanted someone to pay - although to their credit most of them knew Tito to Valentine was a strange shift at best. As someone who has been a fan since 1986 - he is far and away the best manager this team has had ... it's not really close, although Jimy Williams does not get as much credit as he deserves (partially due to being kind of a weirdo media-wise).

 

I need to literally thank you for this post. Fred's irrational hate-boner against Francona is both annoying and grounded on a lot of nonsense.

[reYoukilis]

I think firing Francona was an overreaction. Babe Ruth probably did alot more than eat chicken and drink beer during games. Sure, the collapse was caused by a case of cockiness and overconfidence but what was Tito supposed to do? They were the best in baseball at the time. Its hard to tell your team to stop partying when they have the best record. To them, maybe, the partying was one of the reasons they were successful. And who can blame them, that cavalier attitiude worked in '04.

 

And it was especially an overreaction to go the complete opposite way and get a manager that treats his players like kids, players who won the first Red Sox championship since 1918, and again in '07. Players who were veterans. This was all brought on by the headhunting media and Red Sox fans who force GM's hand.

 

I think Francona deserved a chance to redeem himself.

 

As for his reluctance to bunt, hit and run, or steal, I like the steal and hit and run. Im not partial to the sacrifice bunt, I also dont agree with giving up an out. But then again, maybe my time enjoying the Red Sox has trained me that way.

[Palodios]

As someone who criticized Francona at the time... Bobby Valentine taught me a great deal about Francona's value.

 

That being said, he lost the control and respect of his clubhouse. You can't be a baseball manager after that.

[a700hitter]

It was a complete and total collapse in September 2011. It was record-setting and demoralizing. Tito had to go.

[seabeachfred]

Fred -- can you send a link to this? I definitely could think of someone to give this to.

 

The best I can do Pal is give you the address of the guy who made this lithograph....... Frankgalasso.com For some reason the picture of the lithograph was taken off the cartoon and the name of the artist substituted instead. Try that Pal and I hope you can make contact. Believe me it is one hell of a piece of work.

[Bellhorn04]

What Fred doesn't seem to accept is that Francona simply followed a different offensive philosophy than the one he liked and that was a big part of his problem with him. Francona's Red Sox were 3rd in the league in SB's one year and 5th another. Francona had nothing against stealing bases. He didn't like to bunt, no question, but he's got a lot of company there.

 

I liked Francona a lot but I do think his time here was up at the end of 2011.

[Bellhorn04]

The best I can do Pal is give you the address of the guy who made this lithograph....... Frankgalasso.com For some reason the picture of the lithograph was taken off the cartoon and the name of the artist substituted instead. Try that Pal and I hope you can make contact. Believe me it is one hell of a piece of work.

 

I just checked it out and the lithograph does indeed look sweet. It's 24.95 plus shipping. There's other cool Sox stuff there too.

 

Link:

 

http://www.frankgalasso.com/

 

Thanks for posting this, Fred.

[Palodios]

Thanks Fred/ Bellhorn !

[sk7326]

What Fred doesn't seem to accept is that Francona simply followed a different offensive philosophy than the one he liked and that was a big part of his problem with him. Francona's Red Sox were 3rd in the league in SB's one year and 5th another. Francona had nothing against stealing bases. He didn't like to bunt, no question, but he's got a lot of company there.

 

I liked Francona a lot but I do think his time here was up at the end of 2011.

 

I think that is fair - although when you see how hard the team played in 2008 and 2010, it is hard to think that he forgot how to handle a team in 2011. The Red Sox from 2010-2012 suffered what was, if not unprecedented certainly incredibly unlucky, streak of horrible injury fortune from a lot of guys who mattered. When I look at the 2013 Sox for instance, the "number" that will always stick with me is 144. Dempster-Peavy-Lester-Lackey-Doubront-Buchholz making 160 of the 178 regular and postseason starts. Our best players were able to take the field in a way that just didn't happen the seasons prior. I do think the sentiment on Tito is fair, 8 seasons is a long time in this business. But he was and is one of the top 3 or 4 managers in the game.

[Palodios]

Sk7,I made a list a while back addressing your point... Most playoff teams have relatively healthy starting rotations. No playoff team had more than 20-30 starts made by their #7 and 8 pitchers. The Tigers had exactly 6 starters in their rotation the entire season last year and they were arguably the best team in baseball last year minus a grand slam. Good teams have healthy pitching.

[Bellhorn04]

Sk7,I made a list a while back addressing your point... Most playoff teams have relatively healthy starting rotations. No playoff team had more than 20-30 starts made by their #7 and 8 pitchers. The Tigers had exactly 6 starters in their rotation the entire season last year and they were arguably the best team in baseball last year minus a grand slam. Good teams have healthy pitching.

 

What you and sk7326 has also been stated as a key to success by Schilling.

[sk7326]

Sk7,I made a list a while back addressing your point... Most playoff teams have relatively healthy starting rotations. No playoff team had more than 20-30 starts made by their #7 and 8 pitchers. The Tigers had exactly 6 starters in their rotation the entire season last year and they were arguably the best team in baseball last year minus a grand slam. Good teams have healthy pitching.

 

For an idea of contrast, in 2012: the "best rotation" made 112 starts, in 2011: 126

[Dojji]

This is precisely the reason I am not the world's greatest Clay Buchholz fan. There is no virtue greater than making all your starts, and no vice as bad as typically failing to make 8 or more of them. I'll take a consistent 180+ innings guy over a guy with an ERA half a point to a point lower and call it a good trade.

[Bellhorn04]

Buchholz has to realize that his career has reached somewhat of a crossroads. In 2013 he showed how dominating he could be and then he showed, again, how fragile he could be. He has to work harder at making himself stronger and more durable physically (as Pedro has been saying about him) or he'll never fulfill his potential.

[Palodios]

Buchholz is one of the most polarizing players on this board. Some of us love him, others appreciate his pitching, but don't expect much when injured. He's the single most frustrating player on the team because he has CY Young talent with grandma china's durability.

 

One of the beat writers was talking about whether the Red Sox should trade him. It is a tough question. If he has just one 170-180 inning season where he pitches to the 2.00 ERA mark for the rest of his contract, the Red Sox will make a deep playoff run in that season. Last time he pitched that well -- 2010 -- the Red Sox were struggling hard in several key areas, and still won tons of games off Buch and Lester's backs.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Palodios

[Bellhorn04]

Buchholz is one of the most polarizing players on this board. Some of us love him, others appreciate his pitching, but don't expect much when injured. He's the single most frustrating player on the team because he has CY Young talent with grandma china's durability.

 

One of the beat writers was talking about whether the Red Sox should trade him. It is a tough question. If he has just one 170-180 inning season where he pitches to the 2.00 ERA mark for the rest of his contract, the Red Sox will make a deep playoff run in that season. Last time he pitched that well -- 2010 -- the Red Sox were struggling hard in several key areas, and still won tons of games off Buch and Lester's backs.

 

I detest the thought of trading him at this point.

[Palodios]

I detest the thought of trading him at this point.

 

This ofcourse is under the assumption that they get a top 10 minor league prospect, plus another one or two top 100 prospects. The article I'm referring to actually mentioned Buchholz as a trade chip that could land Stanton. I understand that is a haul, but how often can you find a pitcher with Buch's potential controlled for 4 more cost-effective years? Trading him to dump salary would be ridiculous, but trading him in a deal that netted Stanton?

[seabeachfred]

I just checked it out and the lithograph does indeed look sweet. It's 24.95 plus shipping. There's other cool Sox stuff there too.

 

Link:

 

http://www.frankgalasso.com/

 

Thanks for posting this, Fred.

 

Glad to do it Bellhorn and I hope our pal Palodios follows up on it and not only gets one for his friend but one for himself as well. I find it strange, though, that the lithograph itself was taken off the DirtDogs website and frankgalasso.com put in its place. I really think if people saw just what that piece of work looked like there would be a massive order for it. Heck, I put mine right on the front of my red painted door to my Red Sox abode. Go for it Bellhorn.

[seabeachfred]

Sk7,I made a list a while back addressing your point... Most playoff teams have relatively healthy starting rotations. No playoff team had more than 20-30 starts made by their #7 and 8 pitchers. The Tigers had exactly 6 starters in their rotation the entire season last year and they were arguably the best team in baseball last year minus a grand slam. Good teams have healthy pitching.

 

No one argues with that point Pal---you win with effective and consistent starting pitching, the one caveat is keeping them healthy so they can toe the rubber in the vast majority of their starts---though don't diss me for not mentioning an effective bullpen too. You certainly need that too---as we found out much to our pleasure as the 2013 season evolved.

Edited December 16, 2013 by seabeachfred

[sk7326]

No one argues with that point Pal---you win with effective and consistent starting pitching, the one caveat is keeping them healthy so they can toe the rubber in the vast majority of their starts---though don't diss me for not mentioning an effective bullpen too. You certainly need that too---as we found out much to our pleasure as the 201 season evolved.

 

Bullpen is very important, although your starters have a lot to do with bullpen effectiveness. Most big league bullpens are laid out extremely suboptimally, but that has been rehashed numerous times by now.

[win red sox]

I posted today's BA chat referencing the red sox farm in Minor league forum if anyone's interested.

[sk7326]

This ofcourse is under the assumption that they get a top 10 minor league prospect, plus another one or two top 100 prospects. The article I'm referring to actually mentioned Buchholz as a trade chip that could land Stanton. I understand that is a haul, but how often can you find a pitcher with Buch's potential controlled for 4 more cost-effective years? Trading him to dump salary would be ridiculous, but trading him in a deal that netted Stanton?

 

You can't be too sentimental - everybody is available for the right price.

 

At the same time, it is hard to get good controllable pitching, and Buchholz warts and all is a quality starter. Part of the idea of "making lots of starts" and that whole thing about our Top 6 guys doing almost all of the lifting is a combination of durability (duh) but also being good enough to do so (that they merited that consideration). Buchholz, with the best stuff on the staff and the best "top end", is a very hard guy to let go despite his flaws. I think at this point, when it has happened so frequently, he knows he has to be able to make 30 starts a year for his long term viability as a pitcher.

[SoxSport]

Actually, the Red Sox were the best team in baseball last year--by quite a bit. Way ahead in record until the Cardinals tied them the last few days when the Red Sox let up to prepare for the playoffs. They might have won 100 games if they kept their gas to the pedal. Best record in the best division was quite an accomplishment last year. They did it with incredibly good balance and excellent coaching.

[DirtDog]

This ofcourse is under the assumption that they get a top 10 minor league prospect, plus another one or two top 100 prospects. The article I'm referring to actually mentioned Buchholz as a trade chip that could land Stanton. I understand that is a haul, but how often can you find a pitcher with Buch's potential controlled for 4 more cost-effective years? Trading him to dump salary would be ridiculous, but trading him in a deal that netted Stanton?

 

He's coming into his 7th full year into the bigs, it's time to stop saying potential

[sk7326]

He's coming into his 7th full year into the bigs, it's time to stop saying potential

 

Potential though in his case is a bit more ... he HAS BEEN one of the best starters in baseball before. His best is absolutely the best on the staff. He just has not been particularly durable. But can that be fixed or improved? If so, potential is a non-issue, he is there.

[Palodios]

Victorino just had thumb surgery. It drives me frigging crazy when players have surgery in the middle of the offseason. Why risk screwing things up for the season? All offseason surgeries should happen in October/November. This should be a universally accepted rule.