Marahiro Tanaka And Sox Starting Rotation.

[jacksonianmarch]

The guy has to adjust to the US and to NY. It's not going to be easy to come over from Japan and go to a town where you don't understand anyone and where they'll boo you after your first inning if it doesn't go well. If he can hold his own in yr 1, we'll be happy. After that, I hope he can explode on the scene

[Palodios]

The real question is... can Tanaka replace Andy Pettite's place in the rotation?

 

-Cano, Pettite, Granderson, Rivera, Logan Arod

+Ellsbury, Tanaka, Beltran, McCann, Thorton

 

They gained some real talent, but they lost three guys who will get HOF consideration, and that doesn't even include Arod. Their infield is talentless, and their bullpen has exactly one experienced arm. They are in serious wild card contention for sure, but I am not sure about the division.

[iortiz]

IMO he is supposed to be an immediate stopper. He is not a prospect, he is supposed to be a solution, right now. I understand that NYY have money but you are paying him 20 +/year for God's sake; you are paying him to perform right now, mostly considering the fiasco of last year. If this kid starts slow in his first year, a lot of question marks and pressure are going to be on him for the years coming.

[User Name]

It doesn't matter how much they pay a guy coming over from Japan. An adjustment period is to be expected by everyone, including the ownership that's paying him.

[iortiz]

The real question is... can Tanaka replace Andy Pettite's place in the rotation?

 

-Cano, Pettite, Granderson, Rivera, Logan Arod

+Ellsbury, Tanaka, Beltran, McCann, Thorton

 

They gained some real talent, but they lost three guys who will get HOF consideration, and that doesn't even include Arod. Their infield is talentless, and their bullpen has exactly one experienced arm. They are in serious wild card contention for sure, but I am not sure about the division.

Everybody is talking about Ellsbury and Tanaka who are obviously key pieces. IMO The real deal for them is MCaan. This guy not only going contribute offensively but will give them a lot "intangible" value behind the plate.

[Divinity]

The real question is... can Tanaka replace Andy Pettite's place in the rotation?

 

Pettite pitched 185 innings with a 3.74 ERA last season, no reason why Tanaka shouldn't be able to match that.

[Palodios]

Pettite pitched 185 innings with a 3.74 ERA last season, no reason why Tanaka shouldn't be able to match that.

 

Darvish had a 3.90 ERA at 191 innings against a weaker division his first year.

Dicek had a 4.40 ERA at 204 IP.

Kuorda had a 3.70 ERA at 180 IP

Uehara had a 4.00 in relief.

 

There will be an adjustment period.

[a700hitter]

This is a nice pickup by the Yankees. They have made a number of nice pickups this offseason: McCann, Ells, Beltran, and Tanaka. We can debate these moves, but I judge them on whether or not I wanted the Skanks to get these guys. The answer in all 4 cases is no. I didn't want to see any of these guys wearing pinstripes. I would be excited for the season if I were a Skank fan.

[sk7326]

Tanaka was a good pickup for the Yanks ... Darvish had a 3.90 ERA, but with pretty spectacular peripherals, and a WAR commesurate with a Cy Young candidate. There was no evidence that he was not going to be extremely successful. Matsuzaka's peripherals were ghastly throughout - his ERA sometimes hid the reality of the most horrifying non-awful Red Sox pitcher to sit through in my lifetime. Kuroda had a 3.52 XFIP over 185 innings as a rookie.

 

Health is a bigger risk here than performance ... the 25 to 32 years of a guy who can be a #2/#3 starter throughout that time frame is well worth that money, especially for a team with the Yankees revenue function. The player option here, usually a horrible idea contractually might help the Yankees, since he might opt out of years that the Yanks were squeamish about.

 

Once again, this is another log on the fire of a Yankees offseason that would have been outstanding if they had not chickened out on resigning Cano.

[sk7326]

This is a nice pickup by the Yankees. They have made a number of nice pickups this offseason: McCann, Ells, Beltran, and Tanaka. We can debate these moves, but I judge them on whether or not I wanted the Skanks to get these guys. The answer in all 4 cases is no. I didn't want to see any of these guys wearing pinstripes. I would be excited for the season if I were a Skank fan.

 

If they had re-signed Cano, this would have been a REALLY good haul. However, their position free agents basically only slightly offset the Cano loss. It's a good offseason, but last year the Yankees were an 86 win team with the peripherals of a .500 one. They needed a lot more, and the business case was there to shop for it, but they decided not to. The Yankees are closer to us, given some level of regression on our part ... but not by any margin which scares me.

[sk7326]

IMO he is supposed to be an immediate stopper. He is not a prospect, he is supposed to be a solution, right now. I understand that NYY have money but you are paying him 20 +/year for God's sake; you are paying him to perform right now, mostly considering the fiasco of last year. If this kid starts slow in his first year, a lot of question marks and pressure are going to be on him for the years coming.

 

If he gives a durable #3 starter sort of performance, with the innings that come with it ... that will be a success for the Yanks here. Any Darvish proclamations issues in his hype are due to nationality - Darvish at the WBC it was abundantly clear had arguably the best pure stuff on earth - Tanaka ain't that. But if Tanaka offers durable Hiroki Kuroda-ish level performance for several years - that is easily worth the money he is being paid.

[iortiz]

This is a nice pickup by the Yankees. They have made a number of nice pickups this offseason: McCann, Ells, Beltran, and Tanaka. We can debate these moves, but I judge them on whether or not I wanted the Skanks to get these guys. The answer in all 4 cases is no. I didn't want to see any of these guys wearing pinstripes. I would be excited for the season if I were a Skank fan.

 

Some here and there still believe that they are not a legit division contenders, hopefully they are right. IMO they are way far better than last year, even with Cano gone. Beltran, McCann, Ells, Tex, etc. combined easily can cover his ass. As you said, their key is CC. This is going to be very fun to watch.

[SoxSport]

Nice pickup? Well, we'll know in a few months after he's pitched a few games. Before that, it's pure speculation.

 

What the Yankees have shown in the pre-season is they are willing to spend any amount to get back into the playoffs, after taking a hit in TV ratings the past year. Gobbling up a bunch of FAs outbidding everybody is hardly an accomplishment. Same as what they did in '08 after they didn't make the playoffs.

 

The odd thing is they seemed to have changed their stance only after they bobbled the ball on Cano. Somebody must have reminded Hank about '08.

[sk7326]

Nice pickup? Well, we'll know in a few months after he's pitched a few games. Before that, it's pure speculation.

 

What the Yankees have shown in the pre-season is they are willing to spend any amount to get back into the playoffs, after taking a hit in TV ratings the past year. Gobbling up a bunch of FAs outbidding everybody is hardly an accomplishment. Same as what they did in '08 after they didn't make the playoffs.

 

The odd thing is they seemed to have changed their stance only after they bobbled the ball on Cano. Somebody must have reminded Hank about '08.

 

Yanks have done it both ways, internally (1996-2000) and using the power of the purse (2009). Any free agent is speculation, but going on a middle of the road sort of projection it's a good signing. All the top shelf starters in the cohort had questions. Given the choice of a 25 year old with questions vs a 32 year old with questions at the same price and a significant commitment, the 25 year old is a better bet.

[Carter]

May a N.L. guy comment on this? I'm a life long Yankee hater, but I won't let that cloud my take. This kid has had an amazing last 2 years. I'm sure you saw the stats....the question is: Will the slightly smaller ball used here effect that split finger FB? NO, it won't. Even these Steinbruner kids are smart enough to have that checked out by the scouts.

 

Next question is: Averaging 130 pitches per OUTING, will he run out of gas in NY? He will....eventually. Maybe in August, or August 2018? It now all boils down to the big and final question:

 

Will he be effective in the Majors? Here's what I think....the reason he had to throw so many pitches was because of the Jap hitters, lacking real power are similar to our teams of old...scrappy, choking up, chop swinging, slapping "out" pitches foul.

 

He will get more K's over here as there are so many big swingers, but what will he think when he see's a pitch travel 450 feet? He can't remember the last time he lost a game. He will lose one in April. Again, how will that effect his mind? How about that bijillion bucks in his pocket?

 

This kid from a Cincy size city lands in the Apple....he will have a free lunch in all five buroughs....he will be mobbed! He will be Jeremy Lyne times two! Will he manage that pressure?

 

I think he will go like 13 and 7. A good #2 or 3 starter but no world beater. Of course, on paper the Yanks are improved. I don't know what your Sox did in this hot stove, but it looks like the old Yank/Sox rivalry will be back in full force this season.

 

I know ESPN and their ilk are rooting for an LA/NY WS. It's possible. But I would kinda like to see a rubber WS with the Cards and Red Sox.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Carter

[User Name]

How the hell do you know the smaller ball and different mound won't affect his splitter or repertoire in general? No one can say that for sure, not even scouts. That is nonsense.

[Carter]

How the hell do you know the smaller ball and different mound won't affect his splitter or repertoire in general? No one can say that for sure, not even scouts. That is nonsense.

 

Give the scouts some credit for comparing his ball action with both balls and being satisfied to recommend him to Steinbruner for all that money. For all we know, he may get MORE movement on our ball. s***, we don't know! BTW, our ball is bigger.... not theirs.

[User Name]

That's the point, we don't know. Scouts recommended the guy to a bunch of teams, but they also recommended Matsuzaka and Hideki Irabu, who i am sure you're familiar with.

 

Oh, and Kei Igawa. Don't forget about him.

[reYoukilis]

This is a nice pickup by the Yankees. They have made a number of nice pickups this offseason: McCann, Ells, Beltran, and Tanaka. We can debate these moves, but I judge them on whether or not I wanted the Skanks to get these guys. The answer in all 4 cases is no. I didn't want to see any of these guys wearing pinstripes. I would be excited for the season if I were a Skank fan.

Yeah but people were saying the same thing about the Blue Jays last year and the Florida Marlins the year before. Throwing money at a situation is not the solution. Having a plan like we do is the way to do it, ask the Yankees of the Nineties.

[a700hitter]

Yeah but people were saying the same thing about the Blue Jays last year and the Florida Marlins the year before. Throwing money at a situation is not the solution. Having a plan like we do is the way to do it, ask the Yankees of the Nineties.

No disagreement here.

[SoxSport]

The title of this thread is ancient history.

[vjcsmoke]

That's the point, we don't know. Scouts recommended the guy to a bunch of teams, but they also recommended Matsuzaka and Hideki Irabu, who i am sure you're familiar with.

 

Oh, and Kei Igawa. Don't forget about him.

 

Nobody knows. Tanaka might bust like Matsuzaka, who still had a couple of decent years before MLB batters figured him out and injuries caught up to him. Or, he might turn into a younger version of Koji Uehara which would be our worst nightmare. AKA the Yanks getting a guy with ridiculous stuff just entering his prime and signed for the next 7 years.

 

A lot of differences in the game, from the ball, to mound height, etc. But the scary thing about Tanaka to me, is that he was suppressing batters at the tune of a 1.27 era when they were playing with an illegally JUICED rabbit-ball. He must have some pretty filthy stuff to make that happen!!

 

Of course, since he plays for the enemy, I hope Tanaka turns into a colossal bust and his contract becomes an albatross for the Stankees. But I'm just not confident of that happening. We'll just have to see how this plays out. Even if Tanaka turns to be good, If Sabathia doesn't bounce back, the Yankees are still in trouble imo. Cos his contract would be a pretty heavy dead weight.

Edited January 23, 2014 by vjcsmoke

[Carter]

Good points VJ. I think it's safe to say that he will start out hot, being an unknown, perhaps like Fernando Valenzela. I don't know if you can ever get down to the bottom of the Yanks' deep pockets. That payroll is pretty big.

 

What's this rabbit ball issue you spoke of?

[User Name]

Cos his contract would be a pretty heavy dead weight.

 

Which would be hilariously appropriate considering CC's actual weight.

[rjortiz]

Yeah but people were saying the same thing about the Blue Jays last year and the Florida Marlins the year before. Throwing money at a situation is not the solution. Having a plan like we do is the way to do it, ask the Yankees of the Nineties.

 

You could ask the 2009 Yankees the same question. They added Burnett, Sabathia, Teixeira, Pettite, Marte, and traded for Swisher. I have no idea why people think this doesn't help win games. The Yankees have the ability to have a $200 million payroll. They have no young free agent players to lock up, so it makes perfect sense to spend the money and field a winning team. They had so many holes that all this spending won't make them a lock for the playoffs, but they are substantially better after this free agent binge. This doesn't mean that it comes at the expense of player development. The long-term solution for the Yankees is to have massive payrolls with plenty of young talent coming up the pipe.

 

I should mention the last team with a spending binge who won the World Series. How about Victorino, Gomes, Drew, Napoli, Ross, Dempster, Uehara, and Hanrahan? That's about $67 million. Does that qualify?

[User Name]

I think his point is that money by itself is not enough. You need a strong farm system to withstand the grind of an entire season. Remember that even though the Sox went on their short contract binge last season, if it were not for the contributions of Carp (minor trade), Workman, Bogaerts, Iglesias (who helped tremendously then brought Peavy), Britton et al, the Sox don't win the WS.

 

If a couple of important Yankee old timers get injured (which is very very likely), who replaces them? And if they need to acquire an impact player like Peavy at the deadline, who do they trade for him? Being able to absorb bad contracts doesn't give you the same mileage it used to.

[a700hitter]

You could ask the 2009 Yankees the same question. They added Burnett, Sabathia, Teixeira, Pettite, Marte, and traded for Swisher. I have no idea why people think this doesn't help win games. The Yankees have the ability to have a $200 million payroll. They have no young free agent players to lock up, so it makes perfect sense to spend the money and field a winning team. They had so many holes that all this spending won't make them a lock for the playoffs, but they are substantially better after this free agent binge. This doesn't mean that it comes at the expense of player development. The long-term solution for the Yankees is to have massive payrolls with plenty of young talent coming up the pipe.

 

I should mention the last team with a spending binge who won the World Series. How about Victorino, Gomes, Drew, Napoli, Ross, Dempster, Uehara, and Hanrahan? That's about $67 million. Does that qualify?

Good points. The Red Sox had major roster changes going into 2013. The Yankees were not going to get better by standing pat. We didn't stand pat after 2012.

[jacksonianmarch]

The thing about the Yankee minor league system isn't lack of talent. The problem has been performance. We had an epically bad year in 2013 on the minor league front. After 2011, much of the same prospects highlighted one of the best farms in baseball. There is an ebb and flow to these minor league rankings as we know most of them don't work out. Thing is, should Mason Williams or Tyler Austin or Banuelos etc come out of the gate running on all cylinders, they'll be talking about how the system rebounded

[User Name]

Yeah yeah we've all read the typical Yankee farm system homerism you spew on a daily basis. Talent without performance means nothing, and right now, that's exactly what the Yankees are getting from their system.

[reYoukilis]

You could ask the 2009 Yankees the same question. They added Burnett, Sabathia, Teixeira, Pettite, Marte, and traded for Swisher. I have no idea why people think this doesn't help win games. The Yankees have the ability to have a $200 million payroll. They have no young free agent players to lock up, so it makes perfect sense to spend the money and field a winning team. They had so many holes that all this spending won't make them a lock for the playoffs, but they are substantially better after this free agent binge. This doesn't mean that it comes at the expense of player development. The long-term solution for the Yankees is to have massive payrolls with plenty of young talent coming up the pipe.

 

I should mention the last team with a spending binge who won the World Series. How about Victorino, Gomes, Drew, Napoli, Ross, Dempster, Uehara, and Hanrahan? That's about $67 million. Does that qualify?

Well as someone said they did it internally, and listed multiple years ('96-'00) and externally and listed one year ('09). Now for all the big name signings theyve had (Randy Johnson, A-Rod, Clemens, Damon) theyre bound to have some success but to only come with one title while fielding basically all-star teams makes me think cultivating talent with a plan works better than purchasing it. And really, of all the big name signings, Cano was their most talented player, another internal guy.

 

As for our payroll, yeah but its short contracts with the overall goal of cultivating our young talent. Its actually brilliant because not only are our guys good players but their good character guys and hustlers and smart which will make them good teachers to the up and comers.