Who's the next Daniel Nava (pleasant surprise out of nowhere)?

[Dojji]

Maybe this belongs in the prospect forum. If Yezir or YOTN want to move it there I won't object but I think it has a place in the big league forums.

 

You guys know I love the underdog story when it comes to prospects. I've backed guys that went nowhere, like Kason Gabbard and Bubba Bell. I've backed guys that went somewhere for other organizations but were never going to get the chance here, like George Kottaras. And every now and again, I do get my moment to savor calling a guy making a contribution out of nowhere, like I have with Nava.

 

That's always fun. But I can't rest on my laurels, so I've been looking around to see if there's another guy no one's talking about that I can get behind. I think I may have found a couple.

 

I mentioned Dan Butler in the prospect forum. He's probably destined to go the way of George Kottaras, especially if we manage to keep Saltalamacchia's services, since he's overshadowed by more interesting prospects. Having to compete with Lavarnway AND Swihart AND Vazquez for 2 catching positions even if we do lose Salty, is an uphill fight to say the least.

 

But this kid is to the point, both at his professional level, and in his toolbox, that he's probably going to reach the majors some way, somehow, and do it within the next 2 years. Catchers that hit .800 OPS in their first full season in AAA make the big leagues. They maybe don't become starters or stars, but you never voluntarily throw away a chance to see if you have a do-it-all catcher hiding under the leaves in your farm system -- even if he's only do-a-little-of-everything, that's better than a lot of teams have starting for them.

 

As overshadowed as Butler is, I can't see him failing to get his chance. Too many teams are desperate for the catcher he could be. I'm sure scouts are more aware of this kid than we are. If we know what we have, and we're smart, we'll pick up our utility man of the future when we trade him -- some youngster with 3 position talent and enough skill to work the count and attain to a decent OBP. Personally though I'm hoping he gets a chance to back up for us. I'd give it a real decent chance that he'll reward us for failing to overlook him.

 

 

Anywho, the other kid I see, also in Pawtucket, and another kid I've talked about before if only briefly in the prospect forums, is Alex Hassan. Honestly I'm kinda stumped as to why we haven't seen him in Boston by now. We need righthanded outfielders, check. We need corner outfielders, check. And we like to have people around who work the count, don't get themselves out, and play solid defense. Check, check, and check. To the tune of a .429 OBP in AAA with enough slugging to be interesting. Not enough to start, but we don't really need a starter, just a righthanded bat off the bench. I'm sure most people would want Brentz if Gomes went down, since, you know, righthanded power hitter to replace a righthanded power hitter, but frankly, I don't trust Brentz not to be an out factory at the big league level. Brentz has a better chance to be awesome, but Hassan has a far, far, far better chance to be serviceable.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Dojji

[luckypunch]

Hassan is just coming back from a broken finger, he should be in the lineup this weekend or for the start of the playoffs.

[sk7326]

It wouldn't be a surprise then would it? Seriously, Nava is a special case clearly, perserverence etc. But also he is a guy with a true major league ability (approach) who got better in other places to be able to be a fringy starter sort. Where you look for surprises is a case of serious raw ability putting it together (see Chris Davis who was always an 80 power sort of guy - just needed to hone his approach and make some contact)

[Dojji]

Or you can look for what Nava had -- an advanced approach in one critical area and enough skill all around that he's not going to hurt the team. In Nava's case, the one thing he is good at is OBP -- which is probably one of the best of all possible things for a player to be solely good at. And Nava is not just good at OBP, considering his lack of power. It takes elite skill to keep your OBP particularly high when pitchers aren't particularly afraid of you. And he has enough power to sting line drives and keep his consistency up and maintain his value -- as long as he never plays right field again. Edited September 1, 2013 by Dojji

[sk7326]

Or you can look for what Nava had -- an advanced approach in one critical area and enough skill all around that he's not going to hurt the team. In Nava's case, the one thing he is good at is OBP -- which is probably one of the best of all possible things for a player to be solely good at. And Nava is not just good at OBP, considering his lack of power. It takes elite skill to keep your OBP particularly high when pitchers aren't particularly afraid of you.

 

True - although he can crush a mistake. His power is sufficient - it's not like Jose Iglesias here. But yes, totally agree - his approach is the one thing he does at a true big league level, and that is a place to start. But yeah, you look for players like that - guys who do something really well who can figure out the rest enough to be useful.

[rjortiz]

Does Mookie Betts count?

[Dojji]

If he maintains this for another year he will definitely become interesting.

[SoxSport]

Nava hits for average and gets on base. But he's limited in everything else. Not enough power for a middle of the lineup guy.

 

Bradley is still sitting in AAA. Potential 5 tool kid. They say he's not ready, but last time up I saw him he hit one over the bullpen against a LHP. With Vic and Carp being down at different times recently, they sure could have used him. He and Bogaerts have similar numbers in Pawtucket.

[User Name]

Yes, because that one AB certainly justifies regular playing time at the MLB level. Are you serious with this?

[rjortiz]

Bradley hasn't shown enough to suggest he can play everyday. Besides, he has two more HR's than Nava? He's also hitting at a lower level.

 

I probably could have been convinced earlier in the year that Bradley as an overall player is better than Nava. Too late to try it now, and I think Nava is overrated. He sucks defensively, but at least he hits. I'd rather have that problem, instead of a good defender who doesn't hit. I could see them carrying Bradley as a defensive replacement/pinch runner in October, but the talk of him starting is shelved until 2014.

 

As for Bogaerts, he's three years younger than Bradley, so his numbers are much more impressive.

 

I also think this thread was to identify the next Daniel Nava, not rip him for his lack of power. With that being said, Nava needed a lot of breaks to even reach the major league level. Hassan could make his debut next year, but he needs an injury for that to happen. Probably needs multiple ones to break the starting lineup.

[SoxSport]

Bradley's AAA numbers are similar to Bogaerts. I suspect they don't see a need for another outfielder, but when Vic goes down, they take a hit in speed and OF defense. That could haunt them down the line. Vic isn't durable.

[sk7326]

Bradley hasn't shown enough to suggest he can play everyday. Besides, he has two more HR's than Nava? He's also hitting at a lower level.

 

I probably could have been convinced earlier in the year that Bradley as an overall player is better than Nava. Too late to try it now, and I think Nava is overrated. He sucks defensively, but at least he hits. I'd rather have that problem, instead of a good defender who doesn't hit. I could see them carrying Bradley as a defensive replacement/pinch runner in October, but the talk of him starting is shelved until 2014.

 

As for Bogaerts, he's three years younger than Bradley, so his numbers are much more impressive.

 

I also think this thread was to identify the next Daniel Nava, not rip him for his lack of power. With that being said, Nava needed a lot of breaks to even reach the major league level. Hassan could make his debut next year, but he needs an injury for that to happen. Probably needs multiple ones to break the starting lineup.

 

Bradley came into this season with a severe lack of reps ... unless he was some sort of Ken Griffey prodigy, hard to start in the show with so little work behind him. The team deciding to leave him down for the AAA playoffs is a reasonable call - there are enough outfielders here for now, and he needs at-bats in important spots (instead of the sporadic work he'd get here). Up here he is backing up two of the team's best players - and he can't really play LF with the relative lack of power the other OFs have to begin with. But he'll be up soon enough, and he definitely I think would be in consideration for one of the remaining playoff roster positions.

[SCM33]

oh man, Dojji is on the loose again......

[jad]

Nava hits for average and gets on base. But he's limited in everything else. Not enough power for a middle of the lineup guy.

 

Bradley is still sitting in AAA. Potential 5 tool kid. They say he's not ready, but last time up I saw him he hit one over the bullpen against a LHP. With Vic and Carp being down at different times recently, they sure could have used him. He and Bogaerts have similar numbers in Pawtucket.

 

 

Hitting for average and getting on base is kinda the point, no? Bradley really didn't look like he could do either when he was here.

[sk7326]

Hitting for average and getting on base is kinda the point, no? Bradley really didn't look like he could do either when he was here.

 

Well the latter yes (actually amazing considering he wasn't hitting at all) ... Bradley has the approach, just needs to see upper level pitching more

[DirtDog]

I have not heard Bryce Brentz's name all year.

 

I know he literally shot himself in the foot this past offseason but I'm barely seeing him on any prospect lists anymore. His stats are ok I suyppose, would like the OBP higher, but any other year where there are signficant injuries (see 2010, 2012) he'd probably be up here. His power outfield bat would also surely be up here if Nava and Carp weren't both hitting .300 (!!!!!!!). Next year is his year 25 so it's kind of do or die for him. If sox don't resign Ellsbury I could see this guy having a shot to be left fielder with Bradley/Victorino in right/Center. But then again Carp and Nava have been great and are under team control.

 

This guy is also battling Alex Hassan, but I like Brentz's chances a bit more. If you look at Hassan's numbers the thing that jumps out at you is the ridiculously high BABIP - .418 are you kidding me? This leads me to believe this average is a fluke. He's already 25, but just seems like more of a AAAA player who will never get a shot here. I bet both start out 2014 in AAA and will probably battle one another for a spot on the MLB bench.

[sk7326]

I have not heard Bryce Brentz's name all year.

 

I know he literally shot himself in the foot this past offseason but I'm barely seeing him on any prospect lists anymore. His stats are ok I suyppose, would like the OBP higher, but any other year where there are signficant injuries (see 2010, 2012) he'd probably be up here. His power outfield bat would also surely be up here if Nava and Carp weren't both hitting .300 (!!!!!!!). Next year is his year 25 so it's kind of do or die for him. If sox don't resign Ellsbury I could see this guy having a shot to be left fielder with Bradley/Victorino in right/Center. But then again Carp and Nava have been great and are under team control.

 

This guy is also battling Alex Hassan, but I like Brentz's chances a bit more. If you look at Hassan's numbers the thing that jumps out at you is the ridiculously high BABIP - .418 are you kidding me? This leads me to believe this average is a fluke. He's already 25, but just seems like more of a AAAA player who will never get a shot here. I bet both start out 2014 in AAA and will probably battle one another for a spot on the MLB bench.

 

The approach has been a problem - yeah at his age it is time to make a contribution. I am not sure if he will start, or if he can be a credible righty caddy for a Nava - I'd settle for the latter.

[Behindenemylines]

The thing with Nava is that he came out of no where. For the Sox looking into the future that would be a player in the system who is not on the radar and one of your top prospects. I don't know who it is, but I think it would occur in the bullpen if the Sox find another Nava.

[Bellhorn04]

Frankly a Nava type doesn't come along that often, not just for the Sox but for any team. Last year we had guys predicting he'd be pumping gas by now and suggesting the Sox trade him while he had a bit of value.

[Behindenemylines]

Frankly a Nava type doesn't come along that often, not just for the Sox but for any team. Last year we had guys predicting he'd be pumping gas by now and suggesting the Sox trade him while he had a bit of value.

 

I think Nava is in the top ten in the league with OBP. If he was in a weaker lineup I don't think you would look at him the same. Because of the hitters around him he becomes a vital piece of a tough Sox lineup. Other then Papi no one in their lineup scares you, but together it works an Nava is a part of this. He also has made himself a better outfielder and showed that he can play 1B. Being able to play multiple positions increases his value to the Sox.

[Bellhorn04]

Nava is 5th in the AL in OBP, behind only Cabrera, Trout, Mauer & Ortiz. Gotta love it.

[Behindenemylines]

If Ellsbury injury is major then Nava becomes huge for the Sox.

[rjortiz]

If Ellsbury injury is major then Nava becomes huge for the Sox.

 

Nava can't play RF. I suspect Bradley gets his shot.

[Dojji]

The thing with Nava is that he came out of no where. For the Sox looking into the future that would be a player in the system who is not on the radar and one of your top prospects. I don't know who it is, but I think it would occur in the bullpen if the Sox find another Nava.

 

I think our best bets are either Drake Britton or Alex Hassan.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I gotta say it's Dan Butler, no?? He's pretty much the catcher version of Daniel Nava.

 

The thing with Nava is that he only got his chance because of injuries. Who knows where he'd be if 2010 and 2012 didn't happen.

 

Butler has hit .262/.350/.479 this year with 14 bombs. He could, at worst, be a pretty good backup catcher.

 

I don't think that Lavarnway is going to pan out at C. I do, however, think that Vazquez is going to be an outstanding catcher. Not a ton of power right now but outstanding OBP skills, plate discipline, and contact. Hit .287/.375/.391 in AA/AAA with 48 BB's and 44 K's (that's the most telling stat to me in minor league baseball). And we all know about his defense.

 

Then you have Swihart, who has really progressed this year. .298/.366/.428.

 

Like Dojji said, not a lot of room in Boston for Butler, but if he gets his chance, he could surprise a lot of people.

[mvp 78]

Ryan Kalish.

[Laser Show]

Ryan Kalish.

 

I hate you. You stole my answer

 

[Dojji]

My Dan Butler Awareness Campaign seems to be paying off.

 

But seriously, a young catcher doing what he's doing deserves more buzz than he gets right now. It's just his bad luck that not only is the field crowded with other solid catching prospects, some with more hype, but Salty is actually settling in at last and becoming an OK bat-first starting catcher.

[mvp 78]

I hate you. You stole my answer

 

 

You could have just said "Tony Thomas."

[rjortiz]

Ryan Kalish.

 

At one point, Kalish was a highly regarded prospect. Nava was plucked from the Independent League.

 

I like the Butler answer. He seems to have the same path. He needs multiple injuries to get a shot, and he's not young for a prospect. Hassan is a good comparison, too.