Mike Napoli performance thread.

[vjcsmoke]

I would love for the Red Sox to retain Napoli but the deal has to make sense for the team. I think the most they will offer is a 2 year deal considering Nap's age and potential health risks. Not sure about the money but something in the 2/25-2/28 neighborhood is probably fair.

[Dojji]

I'd be surprised if he wasn't back really. I think napoli is still a very good fit here. it's worth going over what our other options are, because you never know what can happen, but really, fun games of roster speculation aside, I don't see them failing to bring him back. There's plenty of time to get something done.

[a700hitter]

I'd be surprised if he wasn't back really. I think napoli is still a very good fit here. it's worth going over what our other options are, because you never know what can happen, but really, fun games of roster speculation aside, I don't see them failing to bring him back. There's plenty of time to get something done.

Yep, there is plenty of time. His price and years will not inflate too much due to his hip condition.

[seabeachfred]

Yep, there is plenty of time. His price and years will not inflate too much due to his hip condition.

 

Still I'd like to get him signed and sealed so our infield is settled right away. Then we can worry about catcher and relief pitching and whether we need another outfielder.

[Dojji]

I would too, but let the FO do its due dilligence.

 

Besides, before our infield is settled, we need to know who's backing up at SS. I don't really see that guy on the team or in the system at the moment, which is why I'm pulling for an investment in a professional utility guy like Willie Bloomquist.

[Palodios]

Does the recent Fielder trade push Napoli back to the Red Sox? With his hip concerns possibly pushing him to DH at some point, does anyone see a NL team giving him a 3 year deal? NYY, Tor, Detroit, Kansas City, Min, CWS, Texas, LAA, Oakland all have first basemen. Tampa can't afford him.

 

Leaving Seattle, Houston, Cleveland. After the year he had, does anyone seriously see him going to any of those places?

[SoxSport]

I see that Texas is getting Fielder for Kinsler. Pretty shocking indication the Tigers think they made a mistake signing Fielder. Maybe they see a decline coming. It does lessen Nap's chances for a big payday in Texas.

[sk7326]

Does the recent Fielder trade push Napoli back to the Red Sox? With his hip concerns possibly pushing him to DH at some point, does anyone see a NL team giving him a 3 year deal? NYY, Tor, Detroit, Kansas City, Min, CWS, Texas, LAA, Oakland all have first basemen. Tampa can't afford him.

 

Leaving Seattle, Houston, Cleveland. After the year he had, does anyone seriously see him going to any of those places?

 

I think he is about 85% likely to come back. If the Red Sox meet him halfway (I am thinking 2 years with a reasonable vesting option for year 3 or something) he is back here.

 

The Detroit-Texas deal was interesting for both sides. Rangers needed both a 1B and a way to stop jerking around Profar - Tigers gave them both.

[sk7326]

I see that Texas is getting Fielder for Kinsler. Pretty shocking indication the Tigers think they made a mistake signing Fielder. Maybe they see a decline coming. It does lessen Nap's chances for a big payday in Texas.

 

I don't know necessarily - the trade is defensible on its merits, as Kinsler is arguably better than Fielder anyway. Kinsler's bat can play at 1B or LF or 2B, wherever they want to put him. There is shine here for both teams.

[SoxSport]

I don't know necessarily - the trade is defensible on its merits, as Kinsler is arguably better than Fielder anyway. Kinsler's bat can play at 1B or LF or 2B, wherever they want to put him. There is shine here for both teams.

 

Looks like a nicer deal for the Tigers to me. Kinsler really solidifies their IF if he plays 2B. Miggy shifts back to 1B. Iggy at SS, Peralta at 3B if they sign him. Plus they free money to sign Scherzer.

 

Texas gets a big contract--$20 mil per for 7 years for a fat guy who may not last 7 years. And had an off-year last year. Playoff performance may have made a deciding impression.

[SoxSport]

Still I'd like to get him signed and sealed so our infield is settled right away. Then we can worry about catcher and relief pitching and whether we need another outfielder.

 

The word I get about Napoli is he wants 3 years. He might get 2 plus an option year from the Sox.

[sk7326]

Looks like a nicer deal for the Tigers to me. Kinsler really solidifies their IF if he plays 2B. Miggy shifts back to 1B. Iggy at SS, Peralta at 3B if they sign him. Plus they free money to sign Scherzer.

 

Texas gets a big contract--$20 mil per for 7 years for a fat guy who may not last 7 years. And had an off-year last year. Playoff performance may have made a deciding impression.

 

Fielder had an off year, but he is 29, and if you look at the batted-ball stats, his line drive rate was actually a lot better than it was his last 2 seasons in Milwaukee. There is some good evidence that the bat speed is not diminishing. There is a huge risk taking on that sort of money - but the deal makes all sorts of sense for the Rangers in the short term. $30 million bucks, an upgrade at 1B, an even bigger upgrade at DH if they go that direction with Prince (and they really ought to), and finally giving them some options with Jurickson Profar.

 

Detroit it improves their defense a lot, by shifting Miguel Cabrera to 1B and putting Castellanos at 3B. Also frees up money to extend Scherzer. Kinsler's bat should be fine at 2B, though the plunge in power the last two years raises eyebrows but at least cheaper eyebrow raises than Fielder's.

[seabeachfred]

Looks like a nicer deal for the Tigers to me. Kinsler really solidifies their IF if he plays 2B. Miggy shifts back to 1B. Iggy at SS, Peralta at 3B if they sign him. Plus they free money to sign Scherzer.

 

Texas gets a big contract--$20 mil per for 7 years for a fat guy who may not last 7 years. And had an off-year last year. Playoff performance may have made a deciding impression.

 

Detroit sent $30 million to the Rangers as part of that deal. Think maybe Texas might get into the Cano derby? I could see them trying to do just that.

[mvp 78]

Detroit sent $30 million to the Rangers as part of that deal. Think maybe Texas might get into the Cano derby? I could see them trying to do just that.

 

Nope.

[marklmw]

Detroit sent $30 million to the Rangers as part of that deal. Think maybe Texas might get into the Cano derby? I could see them trying to do just that.

Did they actually send $30M or do they just pay Fielder 4.28M for 7 years?

[jacksonianmarch]

They are paying $4.28 mil every year for the next 7 years. That's how it works out. No businessman in their right mind would lump sum the payment if they could pay it off over 7 years

[marklmw]

They are paying $4.28 mil every year for the next 7 years. That's how it works out. No businessman in their right mind would lump sum the payment if they could pay it off over 7 years

 

That was my question for Fred. They still are on the hook for 19M per on Fielder now .... that is a lot of cabbage. Kinsler is 13M per. Cano will find a team but not with a 300M contract.

[sk7326]

Nope.

 

I agree mostly, although if Profar gives them a shot at David Price, you have to wonder. There is a CEO waiting to make a splash possibly.

[SoxSport]

Detroit sent $30 million to the Rangers as part of that deal. Think maybe Texas might get into the Cano derby? I could see them trying to do just that.

 

You never know. That Rangers GM didn't do that well last year. Don't know how they can afford Cano paying $20 mil long range to Fielder.

 

Tigers have Castellanos, not Peralta, to play 3B.

[mvp 78]

They are paying $4.28 mil every year for the next 7 years. That's how it works out. No businessman in their right mind would lump sum the payment if they could pay it off over 7 years

 

You have an MBA too?!?!?

 

You're right though based on the time value of money. I'm not sure how those payments affect the luxury tax though.

Edited November 22, 2013 by mvp 78

[Bellhorn04]

You have an MBA too?!?!?

 

You're right though based on the time value of money. I'm not sure how those payments affect the luxury tax though.

 

I think it'll count as 4.28 million toward their cap every year for 7 years.

 

The Red Sox are paying about 3.9 million a year for 3 years on the Dodger trade and that's what counts toward the cap for them.

[marklmw]

I think it'll count as 4.28 million toward their cap every year for 7 years.

 

The Red Sox are paying about 3.9 million a year for 3 years on the Dodger trade and that's what counts toward the cap for them.

It does count towards the cap ... only makes sense that it does. I was not aware that the Sox ate some of the Dodgers trade. It still was an awesome trade. I think Detroit had their own mini version by unloading Fielder. Fielder better loose some weight as he is an injury waiting to happen. Either an ankle or heart attack.

[seabeachfred]

It does count towards the cap ... only makes sense that it does. I was not aware that the Sox ate some of the Dodgers trade. It still was an awesome trade. I think Detroit had their own mini version by unloading Fielder. Fielder better loose some weight as he is an injury waiting to happen. Either an ankle or heart attack.

 

Mark, there was an excellent missive on one of the Dugout Blogs today about the Red Sox mega trade of August, 2012, and the idea was that teams might be copying what the Sox did with the money they unloaded by spreading it out among signable and team players and not tie a boatload of money in four or five players, especially if they were mercenaries or complainers or malingerers like those we unloaded. It hit Crawford and Gonzales especially hard, calling the former a moaner and complainer who was proving his unfitness for the Red Sox by still complaining late THIS season about how hard and demanding playing in Boston was. What a fragile *******!!!! As for Gonzo, there is a reason he is now with his fifth team, so said the article, calling him a mercenary who thought only about is stats and showed absolutely no desire or inclination to take a leadership role in Boston. And the proof was in the pudding as he and Crawford were almost spectators leadership wise as their team went down the tubes in the NLCS. Cherington hit upon something very important last winter and if he keeps that model as his working theme he will be a very successful front office executive for a long time. As for those two other characters, they along with Josh Beckett, another dickweed, it's good riddance to bad rubbish, though truth be told, I still know how or why Josh soured so much as a player and teammate his last year or so in Boston.

Edited November 22, 2013 by seabeachfred

[sk7326]

Mark, there was an excellent missive on one of the Dugout Blogs today about the Red Sox mega trade of August, 2012, and the idea was that teams might be copying what the Sox did with the money they unloaded by spreading it out among signable and team players and not tie a boatload of money in four or five players, especially if they were mercenaries or complainers or malingerers like those we unloaded. It hit Crawford and Gonzales especially hard, calling the former a moaner and complainer who was proving his unfitness for the Red Sox by still complaining late THIS season about how hard and demanding playing in Boston was. What a fragile *******!!!! As for Gonzo, there is a reason he is now with his fifth team, so said the article, calling him a mercenary who thought only about is stats and showed absolutely no desire or inclination to take a leadership role in Boston. And the proof was in the pudding as he and Crawford were almost spectators leadership wise as their team went down the tubes in the NLCS. Cherington hit upon something very important last winter and if he keeps that model as his working theme he will be a very successful front office executive for a long time. As for those two other characters, they along with Josh Beckett, another dickweed, it's good riddance to bad rubbish, though truth be told, I still know how or why Josh soured so much as a player and teammate his last year or so in Boston.

 

Adrian Gonzalez spent his entire starting career with San Diego, before the 2 trades. He played through shoulder surgery which apparently turned him from a superstar into a good not great 1B. That an article called him a mercenary does not move me at all. That he could not turn Kyle Weiland or Tim Wakefield's corpse into competent starters moves me even less.

 

Mercenary seems like a peculiar charge - the ability to change jobs (which most of us actually have) is not really a reason to bash someone is it? After all, this is a job, like anyone else's.

[jung]

I really don't think it unusual for a ballplayer to be something of a mercenary in this day and age. Chances are pretty slim that a player starts and ends with one team. Once you are resigned to the notion of moving around, how important is this year's laundry anyway. I tend to think the other guys wearing the same laundry in any given year are more important to a contemporary player than the laundry itself. The money really does overarch everything now. There is money available to these guys that is life changing. The ballplayers of old were not in that situation. Heck they worked in the offseason just to make a meaningful full year income. So my expectation is for ballplayers to be mercenary. You can credit the players on the 2013 Sox for believing that the best way to satisfy their individual, mercenary goals was to play as a team. However I would not credit them for being any less mercenary than any other group of modern day ballplayers.

[marklmw]

I really don't think it unusual for a ballplayer to be something of a mercenary in this day and age. Chances are pretty slim that a player starts and ends with one team. Once you are resigned to the notion of moving around, how important is this year's laundry anyway. I tend to think the other guys wearing the same laundry in any given year are more important to a contemporary player than the laundry itself. The money really does overarch everything now. There is money available to these guys that is life changing. The ballplayers of old were not in that situation. Heck they worked in the offseason just to make a meaningful full year income. So my expectation is for ballplayers to be mercenary. You can credit the players on the 2013 Sox for believing that the best way to satisfy their individual, mercenary goals was to play as a team. However I would not credit them for being any less mercenary than any other group of modern day ballplayers.

 

I think the author could have come up with a better term than mercenary ... mercenary has negative connotations. Players have worked their asses off to get to the majors and for every player that does make it how many drafted players do not make it. People paint Boras as some evil doer but the guy is just doing his job and representing his clients to the best of his abilities. Dustin Pedroia gave a home town discount to stay in Boston ... if his wife was unhappy in Boston it would be an entirely different story. Fans should not take things personally. Most of these players have grown up in other parts of the country from where they play. They still have family back home and if they do have an opportunity to be back closer to their family and friends that is their option. Free agency is a good thing for the players. Most of the free agents have been underpaid prior to their first free agency option. Trout has been paid the league minimum the past two seasons.

[User Name]

I think the author could have come up with a better term than mercenary ... mercenary has negative connotations. Players have worked their asses off to get to the majors and for every player that does make it how many drafted players do not make it. People paint Boras as some evil doer but the guy is just doing his job and representing his clients to the best of his abilities. Dustin Pedroia gave a home town discount to stay in Boston ... if his wife was unhappy in Boston it would be an entirely different story. Fans should not take things personally. Most of these players have grown up in other parts of the country from where they play. They still have family back home and if they do have an opportunity to be back closer to their family and friends that is their option. Free agency is a good thing for the players. Most of the free agents have been underpaid prior to their first free agency option. Trout has been paid the league minimum the past two seasons.

 

This is a very keen observation, and it's the main reason why a lot of these guys immediately go for the big payday.

[marklmw]

This is a very keen observation, and it's the main reason why a lot of these guys immediately go for the big payday.

 

Hell yes! Financial security for the player and his family.

[jung]

I think the author could have come up with a better term than mercenary ... mercenary has negative connotations. Players have worked their asses off to get to the majors and for every player that does make it how many drafted players do not make it. People paint Boras as some evil doer but the guy is just doing his job and representing his clients to the best of his abilities. Dustin Pedroia gave a home town discount to stay in Boston ... if his wife was unhappy in Boston it would be an entirely different story. Fans should not take things personally. Most of these players have grown up in other parts of the country from where they play. They still have family back home and if they do have an opportunity to be back closer to their family and friends that is their option. Free agency is a good thing for the players. Most of the free agents have been underpaid prior to their first free agency option. Trout has been paid the league minimum the past two seasons.

 

This is a chicken and egg argument though. Teams are going to use the controls afforded them in the CBA to keep cost controlled player salary at a minimum just as players are going to use the rights afforded them in the CBA to cash in on a big payday. I don't see anything particularly regal or high minded in the positions of either party. They both take advantage of the tools afforded them.

 

It might however be worth noting that every time the ML players have had an opportunity to cast a vote that would increase the meager incomes of minor league ballplayers that were not on the 40 man roster by even a laughably small amount they have shunned that opportunity preferring to not allow a single penny to make its way down to guys that are really making peanuts. In fact, while there are some salary related issues that would seem to divide the highly paid superstar ML ballplayers from the rank and file MLer, one issue they appear to be like minded about is the issue of minor league salaries. None of the MLers appear to have much of an interest in seeing those guys making any money playing minor league ball. Minor leaguers can hardly feed themselves on what they are paid even during the months when they are playing.

 

There is likely an indirect benefit though. Ballplayers probably have an additional incentive to play college ball instead of playing minor league ball. That is a pretty decent silver lining as they end up with an education that might surely come in handy.

[mvp 78]

RE: mercenary

 

Sports writers alude to players being soldiers all the time. Writers tend to be lazy shits. It's a horrible analogy. Playing a game != going to war.