Xander Bogaerts

[jung]

I have not seen WMB hit since two Saturdays ago. There was no visible improvement at that point. But that is too long ago for me to offer an opinion at this point. Maybe I will get another shot at seeing him soon.

[Standing Room]

I have not seen WMB hit since two Saturdays ago. There was no visible improvement at that point. But that is too long ago for me to offer an opinion at this point. Maybe I will get another shot at seeing him soon.

 

Which player did he remind you of that day? Carlton Fisk, James Loney or Joey Votto?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Which player did he remind you of that day? Carlton Fisk, James Loney or Joey Votto?

 

Come on SR. None of those guys can hit mistake pitches like WMB.

[jung]

of the three he reminded me most of last year's James Loney.

[Standing Room]

of the three he reminded me most of last year's James Loney.

 

Was he batting lefthanded?

[Standing Room]

Come on SR. None of those guys can hit mistake pitches like WMB.

 

 

True dat holmes.

[User Name]

Come on guys, give jung a break.

[jung]

I will say that WMB's problems two weeks ago did not appear to be the exactly the same as they were when he went down. They were just as bad though and maybe even worse.

[Standing Room]

I will say that WMB's problems two weeks ago did not appear to be the exactly the same as they were when he went down. They were just as bad though and maybe even worse.

 

How have his problems evolved?

[jung]

How have his problems evolved?

 

From what I can see, he still has the swing he has been using most if not all of this season, which is not the same swing he had when he came up. Yet his approach is very similar to the approach he had when he came up. So, he is stuck firmly in the middle. Having an approach that does not match your swing is about as f***ed up as it gets. He either has to adapt his approach to the swing he has or ditch the swing and go back to the swing he had. IMO, the latter will take longer to produce results than the former.

 

If he is going to try to keep that approach and ditch the swing, I don't expect we will see WMB again unless defense on the left side of the Sox infield gets to be a real problem. It will take a long time for him to make it back if he is not going to ditch the swing as he seemed almost addicted to it at this point or at least last I saw him. But then again I have said all of this from the beginning of his problems.

[User Name]

WMB's swing is not his problem. His problem is his complete and utter disregard for anything that even resembles plate discipline.

[Standing Room]

WMB's swing is not his problem. His problem is his complete and utter disregard for anything that even resembles plate discipline.

 

I agree. I think jung is making the issue unnecessarily complicated.

[jung]

WMB's plate discipline actually seemed a tiny bit better a couple weeks ago in that he was desperately trying to keep from hacking at that pitch that starts low on the outside corner and is heading off the plate. But he was also not swinging at pitches that he absolutely has to swing at. So he is trying. In truth I don't think plate discipline is exactly the right description for that part of his problem. Pitch recognition is the problem IMO.

 

As for his swing, all season long, WMB has been driving his hips hard toward LF. That is not the swing he was sporting when he came up to the bigs.

 

If you compare that to the first Adam Jones HR, Jone's hips were driving toward RF. Jones intended going to RF and he did. I was typing instead of looking at the second but I suspect the same is true of Jones second HR tonight.

 

If your hips are driving hard to LF an opposite field hit is a pure accident. An opposite field HR is a testament to WMB's power but it is still a pure accident...which Jim Rice proved with slow mo while he was making the exact same point I have been making about WMB all year long.

[User Name]

....but it's still wrong. WMB has gotten pull happy, which is why he keeps trying to pull pitches low and away, but he has opposite field power, and will go the other way. He has demonstrated this throughout his minor league stay. The scouting report and spray charts all say the same thing. You are dead wrong about this, it's been demonstrated, so please stop beating that horse.

[User Name]

This is what WMB's scouting report has to say on his oppo-field power:

 

Power: Very natural power that comes from both his natural physical strength and his very good bat speed. Trusts his hands and can drive the ball out of the park to the opposite field.

[jung]

I absolutely agree..he has gotten pull happy. However if he does not want to stop driving his hips hard toward LF what is he supposed to do.....just disappear and become a grocery store check out line bagger for the convenience of some of you folks? He is either going to change or he is not. If he doesn't then he better damn well do a better job of pitch recognition and with less than two strikes pick the pitches he can pull with that swing. He won't be the first guy in MLB to do that if he does...and he won't be the first guy to have a successful ML career either.....far from it. He will never be a Cabrera turning his hips hard toward LF like that but he does not have to be to have a successful ML career.

 

In fact, if he were to play an entire career in Fenway, he might have a very good ML career with that swing. Can't tell what will happen to him at this point. However saying he is pull happy and not acknowledging the swing characteristics of a guy that is pull happy is just double talk!!!!

[User Name]

jung, i don't really think you know what you're talking about. You can't pick up this kinda stuff over the tv. You are not a scout. Let's leave it at that

[Standing Room]

jung, i don't really think you know what you're talking about. You can't pick up this kinda stuff over the tv. You are not a scout. Let's leave it at that

 

Exactly. I don't even read the longwinded stuff he says because most of it is nonsense. And if you show he's factually incorrect, he'll continue to argue nonsense and change the topic to how Middlebrooks is or isn't like Fisk, Loney, Votto and now Jones.

[SoxSport]

I'd like to see a change in the left side of the IF for more hitting. Whether it's Bogaerts or Middlebrooks or both, it can't be worse than what they have now. Middlebrooks is hitting decent in Pawtucket. OPS .836 , BA .278. 8 HRs.

[jung]

Hey I can't help it if you can't see weather a hitter is driving his hips toward RF or LF. If you can't see it in Adam Jone's HR swing tonight...nuff said!

[mvp 78]

Whether.

[Standing Room]

Hey I can't help it if you can't see weather a hitter is driving his hips toward RF or LF. If you can't see it in Adam Jone's HR swing tonight...nuff said!

 

No player drives their hips to one side of the field or the other with the pitch. That would be impossible to do in the less than half a second a hitter has to react. Jung, this is why people give you a hard time. You just make stuff up and then don't back down when everyone points that out.

[seabeachfred]

Hey I can't help it if you can't see weather a hitter is driving his hips toward RF or LF. If you can't see it in Adam Jone's HR swing tonight...nuff said!

 

Jung, I coached baseball for over 30 years and most of those were young men in college and ex-pros. I also did some spot scouting for a couple of my friends in the profession. So I can comment on your take on things. You are absolutely right. WMB not only was getting pull happy but his head was flying out towards the left field line and, strange as it seems, a couple of times I saw him to that when trying to hit an outside pitch down and away. His mechanics were all fouled up....and badly. Now I haven't seen him at Pawtucket since I live in Southern California but I saw him on TV and on my computer screen and anyone with coaching and or scouting experience of any kind would have to be blind not to have noticed that.

[seabeachfred]

No player drives their hips to one side of the field or the other with the pitch. That would be impossible to do in the less than half a second a hitter has to react. Jung, this is why people give you a hard time. You just make stuff up and then don't back down when everyone points that out.

 

Yes they do SR. It's called pulling off the ball. The head, shoulders and lower body all move away from the plate towards foul territory----and that is exactly what WMB was doing when he was with the Red Sox. Jung may have worded it wrong but he was spot-on with his analysis.

[a700hitter]

Yes they do SR. It's called pulling off the ball. The head, shoulders and lower body all move away from the plate towards foul territory----and that is exactly what WMB was doing when he was with the Red Sox. Jung may have worded it wrong but he was spot-on with his analysis.

Some people called it "bail and wail"

[Standing Room]

Players "fly open" or "cheat" or "bail and wail" as a700 said. But that didn't sound at all like what jung was trying to describe. Jung's really been all over the place on Middlebrooks, comparing him to Carlton Fisk, Joey Votto, James Loney, etc. At first he said his problem was that he didn't pull the ball enough, now he's saying his problem is that he pulls the ball too much. He comes off as a guy who's trying way too hard to show off baseball knowledge when in reality he's just kind of making it up as he goes along. He's way over-analyzing these things to the point where he has a new reason why Middlebrooks is struggling virtually every week.

[mvp 78]

SR doing the Lord's work.

[marklmw]

There is no one in the league I'd feel 100% ok trading him for other then Harper, Trout, Puig or Machado(none of those are happening). I'd never trade a prospect of his value for pitching. It's just too risky. For me Bogaerts is the definition of untouchable. Can anyone imagine if the O's traded Machado last season for some SP help since they were contending? The answer should be no. That's the same dilemma the SOx face this season. And I hope they make the same decision.

 

I could not agree more. However I remember a time when Hanley Ramirez was on the Sox untouchable list. When you get a stud in your minor league system you should do everything possible to keep him. Look what KC did their off season deal of Meyers for Shields ... they have to be crying big time over that trade. In fact the Sox might also be kicking themselves for other reasons as it was rumored that they had the opportunity to deal Lester for Meyers ...

Edited July 27, 2013 by marklmw

[marklmw]

Players "fly open" or "cheat" or "bail and wail" as a700 said. But that didn't sound at all like what jung was trying to describe. Jung's really been all over the place on Middlebrooks, comparing him to Carlton Fisk, Joey Votto, James Loney, etc. At first he said his problem was that he didn't pull the ball enough, now he's saying his problem is that he pulls the ball too much. He comes off as a guy who's trying way too hard to show off baseball knowledge when in reality he's just kind of making it up as he goes along. He's way over-analyzing these things to the point where he has a new reason why Middlebrooks is struggling virtually every week.

 

Might be a good time to deal Middlebrooks as some clubs might believe in his upside. I think the Sox can target Loney next in free agency this off season. Napoli has nice power but his k's are getting old. 2 more k's last night. Xander has a future on the left side of the infield.

[SoxSport]

I have a hunch we'll see Bogaerts at 3B shortly. I also think the money at SS will stay there, unless it's traded or DLed. Iggy not hitting has no value at 3B, maybe better at SS with a hitter at 3B.

 

Middlebrooks is 50/50 to get traded for pitching. If they don't trade him, he should be playing 3B and Bogie SS. Both are hitting about .280 with 8HRs in Pawtucket right now. Bradley about the same. All these guys would boost their offense. The FO is way too patient in a pennant race. That's their nature.