Xander Bogaerts

[Dojji]

His struggles in 2011 were related to command. By 2012, his stuff had suffered and has not recovered. The move to the rotation correlated with just less effective pitches. A 5 mph drop in velo? Yuck!

 

The drop in velo was an attempt to salvage his declining command. Lots of pitchers try resorting to that if they can't get it over the plate any other way.

[Dojji]

Just thinking outloud - do you guys think Robbie Cano is a good comp for Xander Bogaerts?

 

I do not. Cano is a better comp for Garin Cecchini TBPH. Cano's all contact and line drive power, the home runs he hits are something that happens to line drive hitters sometimes as they mature (see Youkilis, Kevin).

 

Bogaerts has middle of the order potential from the beginning. Cano is very good at what he does, but he had to enter his prime before he was a real middle of the order bat. It's a different offensive approach and I expect the results to be different as well. Maybe Bogaerts doesn't mature as well as Cano did. Maybe he becomes the next Giancarlo Stanton, only a shortstop. Which would be obscenely awesome. But it's a different kind of hitter, you can't use Cano to predict Bogaerts at all.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Xander Bogaerts: .324/.401/.503 over his past 47 games in AAA.

 

He's also hitting .333/.483/.529 in 53 PA vs LHP in AAA.

 

I can definitely see him coming up and playing against some lefties to keep Drew rested, and making a big impact in some games.

[rjortiz]

I think he makes the postseason roster as a pinch-hitter over Brock Holt. Although, I'd like to see him starting at 3B right now.

 

I'm not an expert on the subject, but I don't think two months of playing 3B would derail his career at SS.

[Palodios]

The question everyone has been wondering, but have been too afraid to ask.

 

Is Xander Bogaertz the healthy equivalent of Jed Lowrie?

[rjortiz]

The question everyone has been wondering, but have been too afraid to ask.

 

Is Xander Bogaertz the healthy equivalent of Jed Lowrie?

 

Do you mean right now?

[Dojji]

The question everyone has been wondering, but have been too afraid to ask.

 

Is Xander Bogaertz the healthy equivalent of Jed Lowrie?

 

He is not. Jed Lowrie wishes he had the raw power Bogaerts has. That Lowrie can figure out his offense to this degree should give us all kinds of hope for Bogaerts.

[SoxFanForsyth]

The question everyone has been wondering, but have been too afraid to ask.

 

Is Xander Bogaertz the healthy equivalent of Jed Lowrie?

 

Oh man I hope he's better than that. Lowrie is just a meh player, even when healthy IMO.

[rjortiz]

Oh man I hope he's better than that. Lowrie is just a meh player, even when healthy IMO.

 

Yeah, that's why I thought he was talking about right now. Bogaerts ceiling is way higher than Lowrie's. I wish they had minor league WAR totals. Even if he had a -20 UZR, he'd still probably be a 5 win player this year. .882 OPS from a 20 year old SS. He's going to be a superstar.

[sk7326]

The question everyone has been wondering, but have been too afraid to ask.

 

Is Xander Bogaertz the healthy equivalent of Jed Lowrie?

 

Probably the floor barring injury - which is a darn good player. Potentially could be a lot more.

[sk7326]

The question everyone has been wondering, but have been too afraid to ask.

 

Is Xander Bogaertz the healthy equivalent of Jed Lowrie?

 

Better. Like anyone who has played sports would tell you - the superstars in high school are not the kids who dominated JV as freshman. They are the guys who got rotation minutes with the VARSITY as freshmen. 20 year olds who are competing (and better that) at a grown man level of baseball - those guys almost NEVER miss, the worst case is a guy who sticks around for a decade while we wonder why he underachieved (but by no means a "bust").

[SoxSport]

Pretty ridiculous at this point Bogaerts isn't playing SS against LHP.

[Station 13]

Xander Bogaerts: .324/.401/.503 over his past 47 games in AAA.

 

He's also hitting .333/.483/.529 in 53 PA vs LHP in AAA.

 

I can definitely see him coming up and playing against some lefties to keep Drew rested, and making a big impact in some games.

 

I believe now is the time to bring up Bogaerts. What a lifeless sack this team has been in the 2nd half. Both Pedroia and Napoli haven't perform like 3 and 5 hole hitter in the last 6 weeks.

 

If anybody saw how the Rays roll following Will Meyers promotion, we could use our own X factor. This team is in a f***ing funk and there need to be some life brought back. Those walks off were fun, but they only got there because the other teams choked. They play poor enough to be in those situations. Now get a bat in the lineup with this next trip coming up.

[Behindenemylines]

Pretty ridiculous at this point Bogaerts isn't playing SS against LHP.

 

The $panks old lefty made Drew look sick until he ran out of gas. His error also opened up the flood gates. Part of playing him at SS over the kids (Iggy first and now Bogaerts) was he would not make those youthful mistakes in the heat of the playoff race. After last nights performance the heat has been turned up.

[rjortiz]

The $panks old lefty made Drew look sick until he ran out of gas. His error also opened up the flood gates. Part of playing him at SS over the kids (Iggy first and now Bogaerts) was he would not make those youthful mistakes in the heat of the playoff race. After last nights performance the heat has been turned up.

 

Drew has been better than Iglesias, and I doubt Bogaerts is an upgrade over him right now. There is zero heat on Drew. The SS position is his until the end of the season.

[jung]

I think if Bogarts comes up he plays SS against LH pitchers where Drew is hideous and also shares time at 3rd base where WMB is still for the most part lost and Holt is sort of terrible.

[rjortiz]

I think if Bogarts comes up he plays SS against LH pitchers where Drew is hideous and also shares time at 3rd base where WMB is still for the most part lost and Holt is sort of terrible.

 

I definitely think you'll see this in September. They'll probably let Bogaerts finish the season at Pawtucket and then call him up.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I believe now is the time to bring up Bogaerts. What a lifeless sack this team has been in the 2nd half. Both Pedroia and Napoli haven't perform like 3 and 5 hole hitter in the last 6 weeks.

 

If anybody saw how the Rays roll following Will Meyers promotion, we could use our own X factor. This team is in a f***ing funk and there need to be some life brought back. Those walks off were fun, but they only got there because the other teams choked. They play poor enough to be in those situations. Now get a bat in the lineup with this next trip coming up.

 

I've been saying this for a couple weeks now. This team is lifeless, stagnant, low-energy, and complacent right now. They need some youth to come up and energize the club. They're playing extremely unfocused and sloppy baseball. 7 errors in the past 3 games, 3 last night, an inside-the-ballpark-homer for Rajai Davis on a grounder to the pitcher?!? I mean honestly. This is a completely different team than we watched in the first half.

 

We're 14-13 in the 2nd half right now. Considering we've had to come from behind in nearly every win in the 2nd half, including a 6 run 9th inning against Seattle, that record is not a good indication at all of how this team has been playing.

 

Not only that, but we've been shut down by some of the most mediocre left handed pitchers in the game. Pettitte, Buehrle, Chen, & Oborholtzer have all completely shut down this offense. It's embarrassing.

 

The time is now for Bogaerts to come up. He 100% needs to platoon with Drew at SS vs LHP, and play 1-2 times a week at 3B. Get him in 3-4 games a week and that's enough playing time for him to continue to develop without being over exposed. Also, you're putting him in the best spots to succeed, considering he's got an OPS over 1.000 vs LHP in AAA right now. Stephen Drew is hitting .198/.254/.351 vs LHP on the season. Yet, we keep him in there?? What the hell Cherrington. That's atrocious.

 

I don't see how the FO isn't making some kind of a move here. Something drastic needs to happen because otherwise teams are going to just completely shut this team down night in and night out by throwing LHP. It's disgusting how bad this team is right now against lefties, and it's even more disgusting that we have a fantastic internal option in AAA dying to get his chance to help and the FO would rather watch Stephen Drew flail at sliders away from LHP.

[rjortiz]

Made his 12th error at Pawtucket, and 20th of his season. He's playing 3B tonight. Edited August 18, 2013 by rjortiz

[sk7326]

The Sox are going to need an extra position player on deck this week - might be an opportune time to get Boegarts a cup of coffee.

 

As I've noted before - his playoff eligibility is a non-issue, they have enough season-ending injury DL slots to get him on regardless of the actual call up. The callup will be on merit.

 

Team could use a spark - although the 14-13 record is against a very tough slate of opponents. It is not as bad as it seems - and they have not actually lost much to the standings.

Edited August 18, 2013 by sk7326

[rjortiz]

The Sox are going to need an extra position player on deck this week - might be an opportune time to get Boegarts a cup of coffee.

 

As I've noted before - his playoff eligibility is a non-issue, they have enough season-ending injury DL slots to get him on regardless of the actual call up. The callup will be on merit.

 

Team could use a spark - although the 14-13 record is against a very tough slate of opponents. It is not as bad as it seems - and they have not actually lost much to the standings.

 

Middlebrooks is playing well since his call up. I think that delays Bogaerts arrival until September, so he can play everyday at Pawtucket.

[sk7326]

Middlebrooks is playing well since his call up. I think that delays Bogaerts arrival until September, so he can play everyday at Pawtucket.

 

I agree in general - but this week there might be a roster need for Boegarts or Bradley. Both guys can backup multiple positions - which will help in NL park-land.

[Orange Juiced]

In the NL parks, I have to assume that Ortiz will play a lot of 1b. With Napoli hurting and ineffective, and Papi swinging a hot bat, and the offense generally struggling, I would think that it's imperative for him to get a lot of playing time.

[jung]

Middlebrooks is playing well since his call up. I think that delays Bogaerts arrival until September, so he can play everyday at Pawtucket.

 

Oh Boy...when folks finally watch what players do at this site instead of looking at numbers, I will be surprised. Why do you think WMB.s hitting streak is so quiet, all little Iggy knocks? He is batting flat footed, swinging with no weight transfer, no drive. That is why he is hitting so many billiard shot hits and dinks. He is afraid that they are going to send him back down again. So instead of the aggressive power hitter we had that suffered from poor pitch recognition (not to be confused with plate discipline) we now have a punch and judy hitter showing modest improvement in pitch recognition that has basically been castrated.

 

Look, why the f*** do they have to screw with his swing. His swing is NOT The problem. Yet they seem bound and determined to teach him a lesson...lately a trait that the Sox seem to continue to exhibit with their young players. So he has developed a different swing than the one he had in the minors...So f***ing what. Instead of helping him to overcome the real problem that he has, they insist on bending him back to something he appears to no longer want to be and maybe can't be any longer.

 

His real problem is pitch recognition, particularly at the major league level. That is why he swings at so many bad pitches. That is why he swung at that 1-0 pitch riding so far inside two nights ago that it almost hit him while he was swinging at it. But oh nooooooo....not what the Sox had in mind. So now we have a guy scared shitless, basically castrated, standing flat footed at the plate desperately trying to stay back as long as he can to give himself as much opportunity to recognize if the ball is headed off the plate or not. As a result he has not put up any power numbers since being called up but simply dinks and dunks along......and you expect me to call that improvement? No thanks.

 

I hate the Rays. I hate their stadium. I hate their unis. I hate at least half their players and I hate hate HATE their manager. But I have to give them grudging respect when it is due. They do a terrific job with their young players, seemingly knowing what buttons to push and when to push them. Meanwhile our FO satisfies itself with teaching players a lesson. Nice job.

Edited August 18, 2013 by jung

[sk7326]

Pitch recognition, plate discipline sides of the same coin. It's not like Middlebrooks has been a walk machine - at all - in his career at any level. I think the team has been looking for him to have a better plan when he gets to the plate - in some ways I wish they had kept him at 3rd (though I got it) since he was not going to be .192 awful forever, just by getting reps. He was putting a lot of pressure on himself though, so riding the bus a bit made some sense. His return does show a better approach - in the tiny sample - although he will never be a particularly patient hitter. It does place a cap on what he can do at the big league level - it is hard to have Vlad Guerrero's approach at the plate without being Vlad Guerrero.

[rjortiz]

Oh Boy...when folks finally watch what players do at this site instead of looking at numbers, I will be surprised. Why do you think WMB.s hitting streak is so quiet, all little Iggy knocks? He is batting flat footed, swinging with no weight transfer, no drive. That is why he is hitting so many billiard shot hits and dinks. He is afraid that they are going to send him back down again. So instead of the aggressive power hitter we had that suffered from poor pitch recognition (not to be confused with plate discipline) we now have a punch and judy hitter showing modest improvement in pitch recognition that has basically been castrated.

 

Look, why the f*** do they have to screw with his swing. His swing is NOT The problem. Yet they seem bound and determined to teach him a lesson...lately a trait that the Sox seem to continue to exhibit with their young players. So he has developed a different swing than the one he had in the minors...So f***ing what. Instead of helping him to overcome the real problem that he has, they insist on bending him back to something he appears to no longer want to be and maybe can't be any longer.

 

His real problem is pitch recognition, particularly at the major league level. That is why he swings at so many bad pitches. That is why he swung at that 1-0 pitch riding so far inside two nights ago that it almost hit him while he was swinging at it. But oh nooooooo....not what the Sox had in mind. So now we have a guy scared shitless, basically castrated, standing flat footed at the plate desperately trying to stay back as long as he can to give himself as much opportunity to recognize if the ball is headed off the plate or not. As a result he has not put up any power numbers since being called up but simply dinks and dunks along......and you expect me to call that improvement? No thanks.

 

I hate the Rays. I hate their stadium. I hate their unis. I hate at least half their players and I hate hate HATE their manager. But I have to give them grudging respect when it is due. They do a terrific job with their young players, seemingly knowing what buttons to push and when to push them. Meanwhile our FO satisfies itself with teaching players a lesson. Nice job.

 

I still think he sucks. My point was that he's hitting over .400 since being recalled. That will probably earn him a longer leash.

[jung]

Pitch recognition, plate discipline sides of the same coin. It's not like Middlebrooks has been a walk machine - at all - in his career at any level. I think the team has been looking for him to have a better plan when he gets to the plate - in some ways I wish they had kept him at 3rd (though I got it) since he was not going to be .192 awful forever, just by getting reps. He was putting a lot of pressure on himself though, so riding the bus a bit made some sense. His return does show a better approach - in the tiny sample - although he will never be a particularly patient hitter. It does place a cap on what he can do at the big league level - it is hard to have Vlad Guerrero's approach at the plate without being Vlad Guerrero.

 

I would prefer the upside of a power hitter instead of the singing voice of a soprano. Right proper job they have done on him. Did not know one of Henry's holdings was a horse farm. Although the swing he has is not what they want or planned for him. It is what they have cause they have got him scared shitless and have insisted on changing his swing as much as dealing with his real problem. I would not give a plug nickel for him at present although I truly feel for him at this point. Then again there is a pitcher we know about that I would not give a plug nickel for either.

 

Clearly Iggy was again revitalized by going to Detroit. I wonder how revitalized or should I say energized he will be when he sees the Sox come to town. Iggy is another guy the Sox were more inclined to teaching lessons. I think there is a pretty good chance that it will be like throwing a red cloak in front of a bull.....fortunately a baby bull at best.

 

Before I forget, plate discipline and pitch recognition are not the same things....far from it. Lack of plate discipline suggests a frivolous, "don't give a s***" attitude on the one hand or simple over aggressiveness on the other. Inability to recognize the pitch that is coming at you is an entirely different animal and a far more difficult problem to solve. He has clearly not solved it. He has simply adopted what is a far too passive, reactive approach at the plate in order to compensate for his inability to recognize pitches at a ML level. Do we really think a guy his size that should have his power potential playing 3rd base is going to be allowed to dink and dunk like this for a career? Like i said earlier...nice job Red Sox...nice job. You sure showed him didn't you!

[SoxSport]

I hear Bogaerts is going to get called up very soon. I would hope Bradley, too.

 

I doubt Bogaerts will play 3B. He probably will platoon with Drew at SS. By now, they probably see that as the obvious thing to do. He's their SS next year. Middlebrooks is playing well enough right now.

 

My lineup next year would be Bradley-Ells-Vic in the OF; In the IF, MBrooks, Bogaerts, Pedey and that big Cuban kid Abreu at 1B (more likely Carp/Nap). Salty or somebody better at C.

Edited August 18, 2013 by SoxSport

[sk7326]

I would prefer the upside of a power hitter instead of the singing voice of a soprano. Right proper job they have done on him. Did not know one of Henry's holdings was a horse farm. Although the swing he has is not what they want or planned for him. It is what they have cause they have got him scared shitless and have insisted on changing his swing as much as dealing with his real problem. I would not give a plug nickel for him at present although I truly feel for him at this point. Then again there is a pitcher we know about that I would not give a plug nickel for either.

 

Clearly Iggy was again revitalized by going to Detroit. I wonder how revitalized or should I say energized he will be when he sees the Sox come to town. Iggy is another guy the Sox were more inclined to teaching lessons. I think there is a pretty good chance that it will be like throwing a red cloak in front of a bull.....fortunately a baby bull at best.

 

Before I forget, plate discipline and pitch recognition are not the same things....far from it. Lack of plate discipline suggests a frivolous, "don't give a s***" attitude on the one hand or simple over aggressiveness on the other. Inability to recognize the pitch that is coming at you is an entirely different animal and a far more difficult problem to solve. He has clearly not solved it. He has simply adopted what is a far too passive, reactive approach at the plate in order to compensate for his inability to recognize pitches at a ML level. Do we really think a guy his size that should have his power potential playing 3rd base is going to be allowed to dink and dunk like this for a career? Like i said earlier...nice job Red Sox...nice job. You sure showed him didn't you!

 

Iglesias has been revitalized since going to Detroit: .208/.255/.271. He has been turning into a BABIP-normalized pumpkin since June. Iglesias had never hit at any level until his 2-3 months of 22 infield hits and nearly .500 BABIP showed up. Iglesias is a truly marvelous defensive SS - maybe the best in the game. Detroit can afford to have him soak up grounders and pretend they have to carry a pitcher like an NL team - we could, but we needed a starting pitcher more. There is a very real question whether he can hit enough to justify a starting position playing baseball for a living - he hasn't aside from his early part of this season. Fortunately with his defense, he doesn't have to be good at the plate, just not really awful - the slash line he has put up in Detroit is at this second, pretty awful.

 

I agree plate discipline and pitch recognition are different skills ... Middlebrooks has had trouble with BOTH. He had trouble with both most of his career but he can crush a ball he squares up. His game plan was all screwed up though - has it gotten better? Early evidence is mildly encouraging. Burden is on him though.

Edited August 18, 2013 by sk7326

[SoxSport]

Iggy is perfectly situated in Detroit--with a hitting team and a non-caustic Detroit media. He needs about 3 years to develop into a .250 hitter--like so many of those good field/no-hit SSs. Some of them, like Ozzie and Aparicio, get to the HOF. Others make all-star teams just on their defense, which some teams value highly.