Trades before the deadline?

[User Name]

For everyone who still thinks the Red Sox should bring back Papelbon, here is Matt Gelb from the Philly Enquirer's take on his contract and numbers:

 

http://articles.philly.com/2013-07-21/sports/40710063_1_phillies-mike-adams-jonathan-papelbon

 

The signs of decline for the 32-year-old righthander are everywhere but in the traditional numbers. Scouts have whispered about their concerns. Papelbon's fastball velocity averaged 95 m.p.h. in 2011. It was 93.8 m.p.h. in 2012 and has dipped to 92.4 m.p.h. in 2013. He is striking out 7.91 batters per nine innings, a career-low rate. He averaged 10.8 strikeouts per nine innings before 2013.

 

The fewer strikeouts Papelbon records, the more balls that are put in play. That makes luck a higher variable in the equation. He has enjoyed good fortune in 2013; opponents are batting .238 on balls in play. (The league average is typically around .300. Papelbon's average is .282.)

 

The larger concern is what Papelbon represents, the overvaluing of closers in modern baseball. Consider this: The Phillies have converted 64 of 94 (68.1 percent) save opportunities since Papelbon signed. The major-league average in that same span is 69.5 percent. In 2009, when Brad Lidge stumbled to a 7.51 ERA as a closer, the Phillies converted 66.7 percent of save opportunities. They were at 83.9 percent in 2011 when Lidge and Jose Contreras were both anointed closer and suffered injuries.

 

Papelbon is not responsible for all of the blown saves in the last two seasons. But that is what happens when $50 million is devoted to one relief pitcher who throws an average of 66 innings per season. The rest of the bullpen is patchwork. One failed signing, like Mike Adams, and chaos consumes the unit.

 

A long-term contract for a closer is not prudent. Research by ESPN.com showed that three teams employ the same closer in 2013 as they did in 2011. They were the Yankees (Mariano Rivera), the Guardians (Chris Perez) and the Braves (Craig Kimbrel). The staying power of a closer is remarkably fickle.

[a700hitter]

For everyone who still thinks the Red Sox should bring back Papelbon, here is Matt Gelb from the Philly Enquirer's take on his contract and numbers:

 

http://articles.philly.com/2013-07-21/sports/40710063_1_phillies-mike-adams-jonathan-papelbon

Who are all these people that think we should bring back Papelbon? We have a closer. We need setup arms, a starter and a right handed productive bat.

[italstallianion]

The Papelbon topic came up quite a bit a few weeks to a month ago. I was on the fence about it (I thought it could help but probably not worth the cost) but I thought Iortiz was the biggest proponent of the Papelbon train.

[a700hitter]

The Papelbon topic came up quite a bit a few weeks to a month ago. I was on the fence about it (I thought it could help but probably not worth the cost) but I thought Iortiz was the biggest proponent of the Papelbon train.

I think that he only wanted to bring him back for a low lovel prospect.

 

Edit: I think most of the arguments happen when some people (myself included) say that we miss Papelbon. The Papelbon hatred comes fast and furious in response to those sentiments. I'll never understand the Papelbon hatred from Sox fans. The guy was a reliable stud for us. Missing Papelbon doesn't equate to wanting to reacquire him. But haters gotta hate.

Edited July 22, 2013 by a700hitter

[User Name]

The Papelbon topic came up quite a bit a few weeks to a month ago. I was on the fence about it (I thought it could help but probably not worth the cost) but I thought Iortiz was the biggest proponent of the Papelbon train.

 

Among others, including SCM, who hasn't posted in a couple days, but was all about bringing him back.

 

K-Rod and Downs plz.

[a700hitter]

Among others, including SCM, who hasn't posted in a couple days, but was all about bringing him back.

 

K-Rod and Downs plz.

K Rod blows.

[Standing Room]

Among others, including SCM, who hasn't posted in a couple days, but was all about bringing him back.

 

K-Rod and Downs plz.

 

It was suggested ad nauseum. For at least a month the idea of trading for Papelbon came up in virtually every game thread there was a save opportunity.

[italstallianion]

Among others, including SCM, who hasn't posted in a couple days, but was all about bringing him back.

 

K-Rod and Downs plz.

 

 

Realistically if we can get our relievers without giving up Bogaerts/Bradley/Cecchini/Webster/De La Rosa then I'd be happy.

 

I'd be hesitant to give up more than one of Ranaudo/Barnes/Owens. I'd prefer to part with the Brentz/Workman/Britton/Marrero/Wilson type.

[Standing Room]

Who are all these people that think we should bring back Papelbon? We have a closer. We need setup arms, a starter and a right handed productive bat.

 

"Put together a package deal for Lee and Papelbon."

 

-a700hitter

http://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/16452-6-21-Tigers?p=849948&highlight=papelbon#post849948

[italstallianion]

Note to self: Never piss off anyone around here that can look up all of my previous posts.

 

Second note to self: Don't post things that people will remember.

[a700hitter]

"Put together a package deal for Lee and Papelbon."

 

-a700hitter

http://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/16452-6-21-Tigers?p=849948&highlight=papelbon#post849948

A reactionary gamethread post. Big whoop. I think Lee is a pipedream and have said it many times. I think the only way we could get Lee was if we took Paps off their hands. It's Lee that I want. We need a starter.

[a700hitter]

I knew he didn't have me on ignore. I am a must read. No one ignores me. LOL!!

[User Name]

By that logic, Standing Room and i are also must-reads. LOL!

[Orange Juiced]

K Rod blows.

 

He's not my favorite pitcher, and I think he'd give me a heart attack here, but man, your hyperbole is off the charts. KRod blows. Here are his stats:

 

Last 4 seasons: 225.2 ip (not a small sample), 2.91 era, 1.25 whip, 9.7 k/9

This season: 24.2 ip, 1.09 era, 1.05 whip, 9.5 k/9

 

And he's only 31. Feels like he's been in the majors since 1979, but he's not at all long in the tooth yet.

 

If this is the portrait of a pitcher that "blows", I'm guessing your expectations are insane.

[a700hitter]

By that logic, Standing Room and i are also must-reads. LOL!

I've been reading you lately. LOL!! You've been less of an asshat lately.

[a700hitter]

He's not my favorite pitcher, and I think he'd give me a heart attack here, but man, your hyperbole is off the charts. KRod blows. Here are his stats:

 

Last 4 seasons: 225.2 ip (not a small sample), 2.91 era, 1.25 whip, 9.7 k/9

This season: 24.2 ip, 1.09 era, 1.05 whip, 9.5 k/9

 

And he's only 31. Feels like he's been in the majors since 1979, but he's not at all long in the tooth yet.

 

If this is the portrait of a pitcher that "blows", I'm guessing your expectations are insane.

I hate the guy from his Met days. Yes, there are worse pitchers, but this guy is not worth a prospect.

[Orange Juiced]

I hate the guy from his Met days. Yes, there are worse pitchers, but this guy is not worth a prospect.

 

Depends on the prospect.

[a700hitter]

Depends on the prospect.

It would have to be a low level guy.

[Orange Juiced]

It would have to be a low level guy.

 

Would you deal Brentz for him? Probably not I guess.

[User Name]

I've been reading you lately. LOL!! You've been less of an asshat lately.

 

Maybe you should follow my lead man.

 

Not meant as an insult or to incite an argument btw

[italstallianion]

Would you deal Brentz for him? Probably not I guess.

 

I definitely would.

[BornToRun]

Not sure where else to put this but apparently Clay's visit with Dr. Andrews went well and he's now more willing to pitch with discomfort. It seems confirmed that there's no structural damage to Clay's shoulder

[mvp 78]

By that logic, Standing Room and i are also must-reads. LOL!

 

There is only one must read account on here: http://www.talksox.com/forum/members/6253-Michelle

[a700hitter]

Maybe you should follow my lead man.

 

Not meant as an insult or to incite an argument btw

 

There are very few posters with whom I have not reached some form of accord. I ain't going away, so those who had the insane thought that they could chase me from here have long given up on that hope. Also, I am here all the time. It's exhausting to maintain the level of hatred that some directed toward me. LOL!! I think they might have realized that I am only talking baseball and not killing their mothers. My opinions about sports are blunt. I see no reason to hold back on a message board.

[VA Sox Fan]

There are very few posters with whom I have not reached some form of accord. I ain't going away, so those who had the insane thought that they could chase me from here have long given up on that hope. Also, I am here all the time. It's exhausting to maintain the level of hatred that some directed toward me. LOL!! I think they might have realized that I am only talking baseball and not killing their mothers. My opinions about sports are blunt. I see no reason to hold back on a message board.

 

So, you're saying I know I'm a not well-liked poster and I don't care. I live out here and can say what ever I want. No matter what. Okay, what else is new?

 

You could drop your recent use of "LOL!" That may allow others to think of you as somewhat tolerable.

 

And,,,,,here comes the personal attack on me.....also nothing new! LOL!

[a700hitter]

So, you're saying I know I'm a not well-liked poster and I don't care. I live out here and can say what ever I want. No matter what. Okay, what else is new?

 

You could drop your recent use of "LOL!" That may allow others to think of you as somewhat tolerable.

 

And,,,,,here comes the personal attack on me.....also nothing new! LOL!

Yeszir and YOTN specifically asked us to stop poking at each other. I have held up my part of that, but this at least your second unprovoked attack. Have a nice day.

[jung]

Not sure where else to put this but apparently Clay's visit with Dr. Andrews went well and he's now more willing to pitch with discomfort. It seems confirmed that there's no structural damage to Clay's shoulder

 

Dr. Andrews also reported that the source of Buch's discomfort is inactivity. He feels soreness because he is not pitching enough and when he does throw, his muscles are responding with soreness because of the inactivity. Inactivity in the middle of the season.....In other words...Buch did it to himself.....What a joke!

[User Name]

jung, it sure is easy to criticize other's worries about their own well being from the comfort of your couch huh?

[VA Sox Fan]

Dr. Andrews also reported that the source of Buch's discomfort is inactivity. He feels soreness because he is not pitching enough and when he does throw, his muscles are responding with soreness because of the inactivity. Inactivity in the middle of the season.....In other words...Buch did it to himself.....What a joke!

 

Yes jung. We get it. Why do you think I asked if Dr. Andrews was also a shrink? I really think some sort of ******** got into his head. Not sure why or how. And I honestly don't think it's an entitlement issue. Time will tell.

[a700hitter]

Dr. Andrews also reported that the source of Buch's discomfort is inactivity. He feels soreness because he is not pitching enough and when he does throw, his muscles are responding with soreness because of the inactivity. Inactivity in the middle of the season.....In other words...Buch did it to himself.....What a joke!

So coming back now after he has lost his conditioning he will run the risk of inuring himself if he ramps up too fast.