Shoring Up the Rotation

[SoxSport]

Unless Lackey turns into a Buchholz or Lester quickly, they should go after Lee, if the Phillies make him available. They need another stopper at the #3 if they are going to stay in contention. Maybe somebody in the NL will take Dempster, who pitches better there. Some team in contention. He is not an AL pitcher at his age.

 

The other reason they need another stopper is Buchholz--he clearly isn't durable.

[SoxSport]

Well, here's one other very crude number: we're 22-12 in Salty's starts at catcher this year. Part of the reason he scared me so much the last couple of years was the W-L record.

 

His hitting has improved. His defense, I don't know. He still frames the middle of the plate too much.

[MJantomaso]

His hitting has improved. His defense, I don't know. He still frames the middle of the plate too much.

 

Framing is post pitch. Its a technique used to sell a close pitch into being a strike. That being said...MLB pitchers do not need the catcher to put his glove where they want to throw it. Thats what they do in little league. You can watch some catchers as they set up, or in your case "frame", on the inside and as the pitcher begins his throwing motion jump to the outside to make sure the hitter isnt getting tipped.

 

Long story short...where he puts his glove has nothing to do with a pitchers performance.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Go. Get. Cliff. Lee.

 

Cecchini (#23 prospect in MLB per Keith Law) plus two of Lavarnway, Brentz, and Doubront. And take on the majority of the salary.

[mvp 78]

Go. Get. Cliff. Lee.

 

Cecchini (#23 prospect in MLB per Keith Law) plus two of Lavarnway, Brentz, and Doubront. And take on the majority of the salary.

 

Phillies are only 2 games under .500, no reason to panic since there's an extra playoff spot, right?

 

Also, trading Lee without getting top pitching prospects would be dumb.

[seabeachfred]

Well, here's one other very crude number: we're 22-12 in Salty's starts at catcher this year. Part of the reason he scared me so much the last couple of years was the W-L record.

 

Catching is a defensive position but you have to hit a little to have some positive effect. Ross is a total waste with a bat in his hands and his proclivity to strike out is enormous. He was a total failure with the Dodgers and even that piss poor run organization got rid of him. He did have a little success with the Braves but only for one season I believe and they made no effort to keep him when he once again became a FA. I still think you can get enough good defense and enough hitting if they would just give Ryan Lavarnway a shot at the job. I still don't understand why the Red Sox insist on keeping the two duds we now have t here.

[User Name]

Because Lavarnway's been arguably worse. He doesn't hit enough to make Salty expendable, or play good enough D to make Ross expendable. Don't let your feelings for the player cloud your judgement on what he can bring to the table.

[BSN07]

Go. Get. Cliff. Lee.

 

Cecchini (#23 prospect in MLB per Keith Law) plus two of Lavarnway, Brentz, and Doubront. And take on the majority of the salary.

 

I think it's a bit early to be selling on Doobey. The other three I could stomach. But that's likely not enough to get him and I'm not liking the 25M a year price tag that rubs possibly to his age 37 season. I don't see any reason to pay anyone that age that much a season, and IU doubt Philly eats a ton on the deal.

[mvp 78]

Because Lavarnway's been arguably worse. He doesn't hit enough to make Salty expendable, or play good enough D to make Ross expendable. Don't let your feelings for the player cloud your judgement on what he can bring to the table.

 

But he hit 2 homeruns on 9/28/11!

[RedSoxNC84]

I think it's a bit early to be selling on Doobey.

 

I don't think so. Now would be the time to sell on him. A guy with a high K rate that could possibly be a decent starter/long arm. I'm sure some teams are looking for that.

[BSN07]

I don't think so. Now would be the time to sell on him. A guy with a high K rate that could possibly be a decent starter/long arm. I'm sure some teams are looking for that.

 

Ya, like the Red Sox

[Dojji]

I agree. Selling on Doubront would be premature.

[BSN07]

I'm not totally against Lee but I don't see the need to give up someone out of the rotation. If they were to get Lee or some other SP then I think they could move one of Dempster, Lackey, or Doobey to the pen as long man spot SP. Lackey is coming off a 0 IP season and my guess is he's going to have some kind of limit that will run out before the season is up. Doobey is probably not a 30+ start SP yet if you look at his innings progression. So he may need time in the BP as well.

[Dojji]

Any rotation space that opens up now for any reason is going to be filled in-house with either aceves, Webster, or if they like his progress near the end of the season, de la Rosa. There is no chance that this team as built is going to go bring in a high cost big name mercenary.

[User Name]

I'm not totally against Lee but I don't see the need to give up someone out of the rotation. If they were to get Lee or some other SP then I think they could move one of Dempster, Lackey, or Doobey to the pen as long man spot SP. Lackey is coming off a 0 IP season and my guess is he's going to have some kind of limit that will run out before the season is up. Doobey is probably not a 30+ start SP yet if you look at his innings progression. So he may need time in the BP as well.

 

None of those guys (age, coming off TJ, out of shape) is well equipped to go to the BP.

[BSN07]

None of those guys (age, coming off TJ, out of shape) is well equipped to go to the BP.

 

No I agree none of them are. But in the scenario the Sox acquire another SP one of them would have to. I honestly don't see it happening. But for conversation sake I was playing along.

[seabeachfred]

Because Lavarnway's been arguably worse. He doesn't hit enough to make Salty expendable, or play good enough D to make Ross expendable. Don't let your feelings for the player cloud your judgement on what he can bring to the table.

 

That's what great about opinions User----everyone has one and everyone has the right to give his. In my case I can point out that Lavarnway has never been given a real chance to show what he can do in the Majors. Oh sure, he had some games during that car crash of a late season we were having when no one was doing much. The guy came off a helluva year in 2011 and showed good power and improved defense, pitch calling and arm accuracy. Personally, I believe they have programmed this guy to fail, especially when he was sent down after his great 2011 season.

 

Ross cannot hit, strikes out by the bushel and his solid defense does not make up for his offensive wasteland. Saltalmacchia? Some power and some hitting ability, but a defensive peguin in the garden on defense. If we could combine Ross and Salty we might have something but we can't. Anyway, you are right on one thing. I have a very high regard for Ryan and believe he is going to be a solid player when the Red Sox blow it and let him go. My opinion anyway.

[User Name]

So just because you have the right to give your opinion means others don't have the right to emit theirs contradicting yours with proof? Otherwise that comment was just trying to create controversy where there isn't any.

[a700hitter]

So just because you have the right to give your opinion means others don't have the right to emit theirs contradicting yours with proof? Otherwise that comment was just trying to create controversy where there isn't any.

^ This does emit something, but it has nothing to do with sports.

[User Name]

Man this ignore feature thing really does work.

[MJantomaso]

I agree. Selling on Doubront would be premature.

 

Like jizzing your pants after touching your first titty.

[a700hitter]

It seems that Buchholz's collarbone/shoulder soreness is lingering longer than expected.

[SoxSport]

That's what great about opinions User----everyone has one and everyone has the right to give his. In my case I can point out that Lavarnway has never been given a real chance to show what he can do in the Majors. Oh sure, he had some games during that car crash of a late season we were having when no one was doing much. The guy came off a helluva year in 2011 and showed good power and improved defense, pitch calling and arm accuracy. Personally, I believe they have programmed this guy to fail, especially when he was sent down after his great 2011 season.

 

Ross cannot hit, strikes out by the bushel and his solid defense does not make up for his offensive wasteland. Saltalmacchia? Some power and some hitting ability, but a defensive peguin in the garden on defense. If we could combine Ross and Salty we might have something but we can't. Anyway, you are right on one thing. I have a very high regard for Ryan and believe he is going to be a solid player when the Red Sox blow it and let him go. My opinion anyway.

 

The FO continues to show mediocre handling of young players. They bring up a hot Bradley and sit him on the bench, playing Carp instead, who just busted up an inning with a DP grounder swinging at a bad pitch. Last night, Aceves pitched a helluva game in a critical start, replacing baby Buchholz, and he gets sent down as a reward, while Mortenson continues to stink up the BP. Strange are the ways of the FO.

[MJantomaso]

I'm sure the FO knows a hell of a lot more baseball than you do. Stop your bitching.

[SoxSport]

I'm sure the FO knows a hell of a lot more baseball than you do. Stop your bitching.

 

how do you know?

[seabeachfred]

So just because you have the right to give your opinion means others don't have the right to emit theirs contradicting yours with proof? Otherwise that comment was just trying to create controversy where there isn't any.

 

Please User, read the first God Damn sentence of my post an comprehend what it means. Everyone has a right to give theirs. What the hell don't you understand about that? You have your opinion and I have mine and others have theirs. Very simple. Think before you react. We just disagree on what is best for the Red Sox. BTW, Salty went 0 for 4 tonight with two strikeouts. Think a couple of hits by him when we needed them might have changed the game's outcome?

[User Name]

Please User, read the first God Damn sentence of my post an comprehend what it means. Everyone has a right to give theirs. What the hell don't you understand about that? You have your opinion and I have mine and others have theirs. Very simple. Think before you react. We just disagree on what is best for the Red Sox. BTW, Salty went 0 for 4 tonight with two strikeouts. Think a couple of hits by him when we needed them might have changed the game's outcome?

 

Fred, i think you're the one with reading comprehension problems here. Again, the whole point is that the sentence is unnecessary. Specifically the sentence you're referring to, because i in no way tried to handicap your ability to express your opinion. I did point out a flaw in your logic, and expressed an idea. Where did i tell you you shouldn't express your opinion?

 

You should definitely heed your own advice. Read things for what they are. Comprehend what you read. Think before you react.

[seabeachfred]

So just because you have the right to give your opinion means others don't have the right to emit theirs contradicting yours with proof? Otherwise that comment was just trying to create controversy where there isn't any.

 

Please User, read the first God Damn sentence of my post an comprehend what it means. Everyone has a right to give theirs. What the hell don't you understand about that? You have your opinion and I have mine and others have theirs. Very simple. Think before you react. We just disagree on what is best for the Red Sox. BTW, Salty went 0 for 4 tonight with two strikeouts. Think a couple of hits by him when we needed them might have changed the game's outcome?

[seabeachfred]

Fred, i think you're the one with reading comprehension problems here. Again, the whole point is that the sentence is unnecessary. Specifically the sentence you're referring to, because i in no way tried to handicap your ability to express your opinion. I did point out a flaw in your logic, and expressed an idea. Where did i tell you you shouldn't express your opinion?

 

You should definitely heed your own advice. Read things for what they are. Comprehend what you read. Think before you react.

 

Oh boy User, here we go again. OK---how's this--- you have a right to your opinion which you hinted I didn't allow you to have and I have a right to have mine. And we will just have to agree to disagree----again. I like Lavarnway and you don't. You like Salty and Ross I suppose and I don't. Anyway, I'm a little pissed tonight that we f***ed up again. TB and Baltimore are catching up. We cannot afford another long losing streak. We've got to stop it fast.....like tomorrow.

[seabeachfred]

The FO continues to show mediocre handling of young players. They bring up a hot Bradley and sit him on the bench, playing Carp instead, who just busted up an inning with a DP grounder swinging at a bad pitch. Last night, Aceves pitched a helluva game in a critical start, replacing baby Buchholz, and he gets sent down as a reward, while Mortenson continues to stink up the BP. Strange are the ways of the FO.

 

This board has its supporters of the front office Sox Sport and even a few who will support them no matter what they do, but I wonder how many of the would agree that you bring up our best young player and let him rot on the bench while you put a journeyman in the lineup instead. Well a few like us know that is absolutely stupid and harmful as well. We're told the front office knows what it is doing, but speaking only for myself, if this is what passes for sound thinking our leaders in charge need a brain transplant likity split.