2013 Spring Training

[NYlove4BoSox]

From Bleacher Report-

"He simply lobbed the ball during his first 15 pitches before being asked separately by Triple-A coach Rich Sauveur and new manager John Farrell if he was alright. Although he indicated he was fine, he continued his lackluster throwing.

The Boston Herald’s Scott Lauber reported that only when pitching coach Juan Nieves visited the mound and spoke with him in Spanish, did the pitcher pick up the pace. He threw 12 pitches at normal speed before walking off the field and speaking again with Farrell and Nieves."

 

I don't know if it was simply Nieves' words, the fact that he spoke in Spanish, or whatever else, but I am holding out hope that Nieves will tame Aceves. He does seem frustrated. After performing wonderfully in 2011 he's really seen no reward, so I hope he keeps his cool. He could be a great asset if he finds a happy place, figuratively speaking. And I like the fire he brings.

[wyo-sox]

Overreact much?

 

Yes.

[jacksonianmarch]

Only an idiot takes the mound in the spring without a plan of action. He's either an idiot or wasn't fully invested in what they were doing for some reason.

[SoxSport]

Hate to see Aceves or any other player get put under the microscope so early in the year. Last year, the management got forced to deal Youkilis because of statements to the media--by both the manager and Youks. It's pretty dumb when you allow the media to dictate your roster--though they certainly lucked out with Middlebrooks, who would still be in AAA if Youks hadn't left. Thank the media for that.

 

Aceves did a lot of things last year well enough--started, closed., etc. More was asked of him than any other pitcher on that roster--thanks to the FO screwing up on Bard. The guy apparently cracked at the end of last year--and is still PO'd this year. I get the impression he feels he wasn't fairly treated. Maybe he was asked to do too much last year. He needs some benign neglect. The media needs to lay off the guy, and the rest of the Red Sox. Give Farrell a chance to motivate these guys. Stop interfering.

[jacksonianmarch]

Wait, you're asking the most vitriolic and meddling media market in the world to not meddle in the affairs of it's market's most tumultuous and followed team? Yeah, they'll listen to you, LOL

[a700hitter]

Aceves should have been moved before spring training. It was obvious that he was bringing things to a head last year. There was no reason to think that he wouldn't do so this year. He wants to start or close, neither is going to happen. In the off season, he had value. If he continues to act up, we'll have to give him away like we gave away Youk last year. The White Sox got the turd back (Zach Stewart) that they traded us for Youk after a few teams got rid of him since last June. Maybe we can get him back for Aceves and Cherries can tell us again how Stewart projects as a #3 or 4 starter.

[jung]

The only thing you can ding media for is inaccuracy. Unfortunately most of what has been reported about the Red Sox has turned out to be true....in fact the vast majority of it has.

 

Aceves "problem" or issue is a baseball issue and a player issue...not more and not less.

 

The amount of money baseball has thrown at players has been insane and it has set expectations at a high level with players anxious to get their opportunity to pull the brass ring. However only players that exhibit immense talent get to grasp that brass ring early and sometimes often, not Alfredo.

 

Alfredo's strengths are his endurance and his unwillingness to yield coupled with a multiplicity of pitches....mostly mediocre pitches. Unfortunately, the last we saw of Alfredo last year, he was yielding all too often, giving in to the hitter and to the situation. We saw way too many instances of Alfredo simply, finally throwing a meatball right over the heart of the plate only to have professional hitters do what they do with that kind of pitch....crash....bang....don't be parked in that lot across the street from the LF wall. He once gave in completely last year having just told the pitching coach to get the hell off of his mound! To be perfectly honest, that tendency to finally give in, something he never showed as a reliever that was not closing, puts him outside my comfort zone for ever really being a closer again and puts him outside my comfort zone for being a starter as well. Neither closing nor starting leaves much room for a guy that can just that suddenly crumble to dust on the mound and start throwing meatballs. However closing and starting are where the real money is for pitchers.

 

Unfortunately for Alfredo, at least as far as money goes, what he has proven is that he is the consummate middle reliever, quite possibly the best there is at that role. He can come in to start a fresh inning or with guys on in anything from the 2nd through the 5th and succeed. While that is an interesting skill set it does not recommend him further and it is not a skill set that generally means much at MLB's pay window.

 

I am willing to see the Sox give him another shot at starting this year....just....just because I think there will be ample opportunity for some of the relievers to spot start this year. IF he is on the team, Alfredo should have that opportunity IMO. It is also my opinion that he will not do good enough in that role to make the grade as a member of a ML rotation.

[Spitball]

I am sure there is a market out there for Aceves. Teams have been taking chances on bigger nut cases than Aceves for years. Milton Bradley was scary nuts and got chance after chance. The Marlins took a chance on Carlos Zimbrano. A guy with Aceves's abilities has trade value.

 

Plenty of teams need pitching, and Aceves would surely be atractive to teams looking for a bottom of the rotation. The Angels, Brewers, Twins, Astros, and sveral others would be improved with Aceves on the team. The Mets need pitching and might be willing to trade lefty hitting outfielder Lucas Duda.

[a700hitter]

I am sure there is a market out there for Aceves. Teams have been taking chances on bigger nut cases than Aceves for years. Milton Bradley was scary nuts and got chance after chance. The Marlins took a chance on Carlos Zimbrano. A guy with Aceves's abilities has trade value.

 

Plenty of teams need pitching, and Aceves would surely be atractive to teams looking for a bottom of the rotation. The Angels, Brewers, Twins, Astros, and sveral others would be improved with Aceves on the team. The Mets need pitching and might be willing to trade lefty hitting outfielder Lucas Duda.

I agree that there is still a market for him, but more nutty behavior will hurt his trade value. Do you disagree with that? I like the Duda idea. The Mets are overloaded with lefty hitting first baseman-- Duda, Murphy and Davis.

[jung]

Pitchers will always bring something in return. Duda for Aceves sounds like a decent enough idea. Kills two birds with one stone.

[Bellhorn04]

And what exactly are the real life chances of Aceves being traded for Duda?

 

The Sox already have Overbay and are trying out Nava at 1B as well.

[jung]

Myself I think the chances are really small for trading Aceves under any circumstances Bell. I think they are committed to seeing if the combination of new pitching coach and Farrell can keep Aceves on the straight and narrow. That does not change what I think about his chances for success as either a starter or a closer.

 

I suspect that in a perfect Sox world, Aceves accepts his role as the most versatile of the middle relievers and takes advantage of the visibility and the work that affords him. While I would want him to get a spot start I can see where he is going to be the most difficult guy for Farrell to work into such a thing. Your most versatile reliever is likely to get a good deal of work. Farrell will have to sit him on a shelf for a few days working up to a spot start which is not exactly what you want to be doing with that particular guy. The Sox do appear to have enough bullpen arms to do it.

 

I am not sure how it is that Aceves has gone unrewarded. What are the Sox supposed to do with him? Should they reward him with jobs that he simply is not well suited to regardless of his wishes? Should they overpay him for the job that he can do? Frankly I don't think overpaying him for what he can do will work in his case. He is not looking for middle reliever money from what I can tell.

 

It might be that actually trading him, if there is some team out there that thinks he can either start or close would be the best reward they can offer Aceves. Save that, doing what he does do well and waiting for a shot at a spot start is probably the best they can do for him.

[seabeachfred]

Wait, you're asking the most vitriolic and meddling media market in the world to not meddle in the affairs of it's market's most tumultuous and followed team? Yeah, they'll listen to you, LOL

 

Well Jacko you have to give credit to Sox Sport for at least coming out with the best suggestion to this problem save for just getting rid of the guy, which is what I think they should do. I think SS, you and I know the media will not let this happen unless Farrell steps in and says in no uncertain terms that the writers and media TV people lay off and let him do his job. It isn't going to be easy for Farrell to skate around this for very long. Either Aceves gets religion in a hurry or we get rid of him. We cannot afford even one rotten apple on the team this season. We have too far to climb to get out of the gigantic hole we fell into last season.:(:(:(:(

[Spitball]

Myself I think the chances are really small for trading Aceves under any circumstances Bell. I think they are committed to seeing if the combination of new pitching coach and Farrell can keep Aceves on the straight and narrow. That does not change what I think about his chances for success as either a starter or a closer.

 

I suspect that in a perfect Sox world, Aceves accepts his role as the most versatile of the middle relievers and takes advantage of the visibility and the work that affords him. While I would want him to get a spot start I can see where he is going to be the most difficult guy for Farrell to work into such a thing. Your most versatile reliever is likely to get a good deal of work. Farrell will have to sit him on a shelf for a few days working up to a spot start which is not exactly what you want to be doing with that particular guy. The Sox do appear to have enough bullpen arms to do it.

 

I am not sure how it is that Aceves has gone unrewarded. What are the Sox supposed to do with him? Should they reward him with jobs that he simply is not well suited to regardless of his wishes? Should they overpay him for the job that he can do? Frankly I don't think overpaying him for what he can do will work in his case. He is not looking for middle reliever money from what I can tell.

 

It might be that actually trading him, if there is some team out there that thinks he can either start or close would be the best reward they can offer Aceves. Save that, doing what he does do well and waiting for a shot at a spot start is probably the best they can do for him.

 

Good points, but I believe the Sox have worked hard to acquire positive clubhouse people. Gomes, Ross, and Dempster are reputed great team players. Gomes has been been a high energy bench leader in Tampa, Cincinnati, and Oakland. Ross has been a leader and regular guy (Bronson Arroyo's drinking buddy in Cincy). Dempster is suppose to be one of the most humorous players in baseball. I believe these players were brought in by design.

 

If Aceves is deemed bad for the clubhouse healing process, I can see him being traded. I believe the Sox need more than talent. They have had a bad atmosphere for a couple of years...and that needs to be changed.

[seabeachfred]

I agree that there is still a market for him, but more nutty behavior will hurt his trade value. Do you disagree with that? I like the Duda idea. The Mets are overloaded with lefty hitting first baseman-- Duda, Murphy and Davis.

 

The Mets could be a good fit for Aceves---in fact, anywhere but in Boston. Jacko might know more about this guy than we do, but I think the same thing happened to him in New York that;s happening to him right now---he had a good season for the Yankees and then became a mal-content. The Yanks wasted no time in getting rid of him Ted and so should we. He is a cancer waiting to spread.

 

It always infuriates me to hear a manager say that he can handle this problem player when no other manager or team could. Farrell is saying that now about Alfredo but that is nothing but self-delusion and it will fail. How many times did we hear this kind of crap when the names Carl Everett, Jose Guillen or Milton Bradley came up? No matter where they went they still remained *******s and none of them ever helped their respective teams win anything. Besides, we could use a good LH hitter this year who could play some first base and outfield. We don't need a head case.

[Bellhorn04]

Look, we didn't hear about any problems with Aceves in 2011. Whatever there was, Francona handled it and kept it in the clubhouse.

 

And while the rest of the pitching staff was melting down, Aceves had an ERA of 2.28 in July, 1.15 in August and 1.80 in September. All he did in 2011 was pitch his ass off.

 

So it's not unreasonable to think that another manager can handle him.

[Spitball]

... are trying out Nava at 1B as well.

 

Nava is listed as 5'10' but looks shorter in person. There have not been a lot of short first basemen and there is a good reason for that. The stretch can mean the difference between an infield hit and an out.

 

Yastrzemski was 5'10' but had long arms and great athletic ability. John Kruk was a bad outfielder but a very good bat. Same with Gregg Jeffries.

[seabeachfred]

Look, we didn't hear about any problems with Aceves in 2011. Whatever there was, Francona handled it and kept it in the clubhouse.

 

And while the rest of the pitching staff was melting down, Aceves had an ERA of 2.28 in July, 1.15 in August and 1.80 in September. All he did in 2011 was pitch his ass off.

 

So it's not unreasonable to think that another manager can handle him.

 

Makes sense Bellhorn except for one thing. He was a model citizen with the Yankees his first year there and a problem the next---the same as he was here. The guy is a mal-content and he will be no mat ter where he is. Good for one year and then the lousy angels of his nature comes alive. 2011 is now ancient history; it is last season we are really trying to dig out from and while you think the problem is solvable, more power to you. I still think for the betterment of the team he needs to go.

[a700hitter]

Nava is listed as 5'10' but looks shorter in person. There have not been a lot of short first basemen and there is a good reason for that. The stretch can mean the difference between an infield hit and an out.

 

Yastrzemski was 5'10' but had long arms and great athletic ability. John Kruk was a bad outfielder but a very good bat. Same with Gregg Jeffries.

They used to list Yaz as 6' at some points in his career. They also used to list his weight as 185. Both were exaggerations. He wasn't quite 6', but he was probably 5'11". I met him in person right after he retired. He was wearing cowboy boots that made him look a little taller, but I still think he was about 5' 11. His playing weight was usually around 175, based on interviews that I have heard and read.

 

Nava is about the same size as Pedroia, who is listed as 5'9", but that is also an exaggeration. Steve Garvey was a small first baseman, but like Yaz, Garvey was big on talent. Nava is not very talented at all.

[jung]

While Aceves was excellent in 2011, he was excellent in a very specific role. He is about the only guy that thinks that translates into excellence in a bigger, more pressure packed role and his thinking in that area is clearly driven by the added Dead Presidents.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I saw a guy that crumbled easily in the more pressure packed role. Both Starting and Closing are more pressure packed than middle reliever and by a wide margin. He crumbed not once but several times last year....literally giving in to the hitter and the situation, grooving FB's right down Main Street. That is not hanging tough. That is what giving up looks like for a pitcher. So for my money, one of Alfredo's assets turned into a deficit in the more pressurized role. I can no longer consider him a tough guy that will not yield to the hitter or the situation unless he is in a less pressurized situation....like middle relief. Oddly enough, if a guy does crumble in the middle relief role, you can usually get him the hell outta' there pretty quickly.

 

So as far as I am concerned, Alfredo can consider himself Starter material till he is blue in the face. I can no longer consider him viable as either a Starter or a Closer. If he continues to bristle and bitch....and test his Manager because he just cannot deal with that or for whatever reason...get him the hell outta' here.

 

By the way, I saw my first film of Felix this spring. He is not just a few pounds overweight. For a guy his age, and with his bone structure, he is downright porky with a full spare tire around the middle....an embarrassment.

[Bellhorn04]

Cherington tells Aceves' agent team won't tolerate incidents

February 18, 2013, 6:57 pm

Macadam

 

FORT MYERS, Fla. -- A day after Alfredo Aceves seemed to be testing the Red Sox patience with his decision to throw live batting practice at half-speed, his agent visited Red Sox camp and had a conversation with general manager Ben Cherington.

 

Tom O'Connell, who represents Aceves, chatted with Cherington. Cherington told the agent that the Sox value Aceves and want him to be a part of their staff, but also made clear that incidents like the one that took place Sunday won't be tolerated.

 

Aceves has a history of issues with the Sox, dating back to last season when he once refused to hand the ball to Bobby Valentine on the mound. Later in the season, upset at not being called on in a save situation, Aceves had an angry confrontation with Valentine in his office that resulted in the pitcher slamming the door and later receiving a three-game suspension.

 

A source indicated Sunday that the Sox believed that Aceves was "absolutely" testing new manager John Farrell. Aceves is believed to prefer to start; the Red Sox will stretch him out in the spring in case some depth starters are needed, but plan to use Aceves primarily out of the bullpen.

[jung]

Alfredo is way better off in a role that he excels in(middle relief, swing man) instead of one that he would be lucky to survive (starting).

[NYlove4BoSox]

Aceves is ultimately doomed in the way Lowrie was a couple years ago. He's too useful as a long reliever, and so should be denied a rotation spot. Lowrie was too useful as a utility guy, and denied a starting spot for Boston. Neither roles are glorious, especially for the long reliever (clean-up guy).

However, if Aceves comes around, could it be good to see him utilized more by Farrell going to him quickly at the sign of struggle from a starter? I'm not necessarily saying pull Lester if he gives up 3 runs in the 1st. More so the idea of going to a long reliever when down 4 runs in the 2nd as opposed to waiting for a 5 run deficit in the 4th or 5th.

I just think having Aceves and Morales both as (hopefully) effective long relievers gives us some options other clubs don't have.

[dupree]

Aceves is ultimately doomed in the way Lowrie was a couple years ago. He's too useful as a long reliever, and so should be denied a rotation spot. Lowrie was too useful as a utility guy, and denied a starting spot for Boston. Neither roles are glorious, especially for the long reliever (clean-up guy).

However, if Aceves comes around, could it be good to see him utilized more by Farrell going to him quickly at the sign of struggle from a starter? I'm not necessarily saying pull Lester if he gives up 3 runs in the 1st. More so the idea of going to a long reliever when down 4 runs in the 2nd as opposed to waiting for a 5 run deficit in the 4th or 5th.

I just think having Aceves and Morales both as (hopefully) effective long relievers gives us some options other clubs don't have.

 

Well said. I hope he doesnt cause anymore drama. And i think the thought of going to him earlier will keep him happy and also help the team if the starter is getting lit up.

[Lucienbel]

Really sick of Aceves and this kind of crap. No one wants to hear about a grown adult acting like a child. It's great he wants to be a starter and all, but clearly the team doesn't want to play that game this year. Maybe they should have just tried from the start last year, but too late for that now.

 

I dunno, it's like they told everyone there was a chance to compete for the starter roll last year and he never got that out of his head.

[jacksonianmarch]

Aceves got an inflated sense of who he was in NY in 2009. He was a key cog in our pen when we won a title. From there, I think he got a little entitled, hurt himself in 2010 and acted like a prick and got released. He re-established himself in 2011 with the sox and got entitled enough to act like a prick again in 2012. He seems like a guy who needs to be kicked a few times to be good or else he thinks he's awesome and demands attention

[a700hitter]

I think he has the potential to be a cancer on this team. I don't see him accepting his role gracefully, so they should probably trade him before he forces the issue.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think he has the potential to be a cancer on this team. I don't see him accepting his role gracefully, so they should probably trade him before he forces the issue.

 

If Cherries decides to take this team into the value direction, now is not the time to move him. Who cares if he is a cancer for the first 2 months of the yr, the sox aint winning a thing this yr. If Aceves goes out, acts like an ass, but pitches to a 2.00ERA through 30IP for April and May, then he's got value and will likely bring something back. If you deal him now, you're getting more Brent Lillibridge's back that you dont need

[jacksonianmarch]

I also wouldnt be shocked if Aceves starts the yr in the rotation for that same reason. Doubront came in fat and started with some shoulder fatigue. They are going to treat him like a newborn baby and if he isnt firing mid 90s heat come April 1, he's going to be on the DL. I think 2013 will be the yr of value for Boston and moving Aceves into the rotation will boost his value tremendously. He was a very good starter in the minors for us, but his stamina was an issue. If he can just give 2 months worth of positive starts, he could bring back a lot in trade. I also think this is the yr Jon Lester gets traded. I said it first!!

[a700hitter]

If Cherries decides to take this team into the value direction, now is not the time to move him. Who cares if he is a cancer for the first 2 months of the yr, the sox aint winning a thing this yr. If Aceves goes out, acts like an ass, but pitches to a 2.00ERA through 30IP for April and May, then he's got value and will likely bring something back. If you deal him now, you're getting more Brent Lillibridge's back that you dont need

If he acts like an ass, it could affect his performance, and it definitely would diminish his trade value.