2013 Spring Training

[mvp 78]

Minor league depth signings always go over well here.

 

Why even have minor league rosters?

[Bellhorn04]

Webster reportedly throwing very hard today. Fastballs between 94-97 MPH with one hitting 99.

 

Seems like the Dodgers sent us a couple of guys with heat...

[mvp 78]

Webster reportedly throwing very hard today. Fastballs between 94-97 MPH with one hitting 99.

 

Seems like the Dodgers sent us a couple of guys with heat...

 

Nice, since he's known for a fantastic changeup.

[Station 13]

Another wild outing for Bard. Only hit 94MPH. HBP, BB, K. Doesn't sounds good.

[a700hitter]

Another wild outing for Bard. Only hit 94MPH. HBP, BB, K. Doesn't sounds good.

At this point in ST, the velocity is not that concerning, but the command is worrisome.

[wyo-sox]

I really am encouraged with the weei story on Webster's pitching performance today. I know it's a microscopic sample size but still encouraging.

[jung]

I really am encouraged with the weei story on Webster's pitching performance today. I know it's a microscopic sample size but still encouraging.

 

Certainly batter than a kick in the teeth.

[Bellhorn04]

De La Rosa and Webster both hitting close to 100 MPH...I know it's too early to get excited about this stuff, but it seems like the Dodgers were incredibly generous to us.

[Palodios]

De La Rosa and Webster both hitting close to 100 MPH...I know it's too early to get excited about this stuff, but it seems like the Dodgers were incredibly generous to us.

 

Last I heard, Webster was able to reach back to hit 96. Adding 3 MPH to his fastball in an offseason seems pretty extreme. Either the gun was juiced, or he's a much better pitcher than he's been receiving credit for.

 

Can we talk about how insanely good last year's blockbuster was for the Red Sox?

[jung]

While LA was looking to sell tickets, the Sox were clearly looking to dump salary. LA's willingness to give up pitching in that deal was really surprising. That was the element of that deal that turned it so decidedly toward the Sox. It was already a good deal for the Sox. That turned it into a stupendous deal.

[mvp 78]

1. It still depends on how the Sox spend that money over the next few years

2. And the prospects actually have to perform at the MLB level

 

If it was just a salary dump and the prospects flamed out, it was a bad deal.

[RedSoxNC84]

Can we talk about how insanely good last year's blockbuster was for the Red Sox?

 

Dodgers now my new favorite team

[jacksonianmarch]

1. It still depends on how the Sox spend that money over the next few years

2. And the prospects actually have to perform at the MLB level

 

If it was just a salary dump and the prospects flamed out, it was a bad deal.

 

It's really how they spend that money over the next 5 yrs, because with those bears of contracts on the books, they'd be overspending to stay competitive while having horrendous contracts getting towards a point where production per dollar was dropping like a rock. I think we can all see the sox bridge plan is afoot and if their team ends up melding and winning, then its a bonus. Napoli initially got a 3 yr deal, Victorino a 3 yr deal, Gomes a 2 yr deal and Dempster to a 2 yr deal. You have Lester for 2 more yrs, Ellsbury for 1, Pedroia 3 more, Ortiz 2 more and Buchholz for as many as 5 more yrs. Every single player on the current sox roster could be gone within 3 yrs (Buch's last 2 yrs of that 5 are options). This gives them incredible flexibility. It also allows the sox to bring their prospects through slowly while also giving the fans enough interest to keep them around. It also lends more to the sox previous mantra of loveable teams that came up short. But all the while, there will be a plan. Money freed up to chase a big FA. High end prospects to potentially build a winner around. And flexibility to let some bad players go without having to keep their asses around due to contract length. I like their plan and I think that, if done right, the sox will be World Series contenders after 2-3 yrs.

[jacksonianmarch]

The one interesting thing about their farm, though, is that Cherington will have to make some tough decisions. The sox system contains little depth, but it has a handful of guys who could be all-star caliber players. If Cherington picks the wrong guy or ships off a future All Star for a short term fix, then he'll sink the boat

[jung]

But if you are just looking at that deal it is hard for it to be a bust no matter how you look at it. They were completely boxed by those contracts and had players that were not working out, were beginning the back nine portions of their career and/or were not fits here. Even if the pitching prospects that came back don't work out, it is still a good deal for the Sox. It becomes a great deal if even one of the pitching prospects ends up in the rotation at anything #3 starter or above.

 

If they use the flexibility they gained poorly then that will suck and will truly be a reflection on the organization that will be hard to dodge. That does not change the fact that just getting out from under the CC, Beckett and AGons contracts was a really good deal for the Sox. Beckett needed outta' here in the worst way and was struggling with the transition phase from being a power pitcher to being a control pitcher. Beckett is also struggling with balancing interests outside of baseball. CC never should have been brought here especially for that kind of money. Agons simply was not as advertised and probably should stay in the NL for the rest of his career. Punto will likely be the forgotten man in the deal.

[mvp 78]

They weren't boxed in. Beckett's deal was going to be up in a little bit. AGon was overpaid, but very productive. The one bad contract (CC) wasn't enough to prevent a big market team like the Sox from bringing in other guys.

[Bellhorn04]

They weren't boxed in. Beckett's deal was going to be up in a little bit. AGon was overpaid, but very productive. The one bad contract (CC) wasn't enough to prevent a big market team like the Sox from bringing in other guys.

 

There are signs that AGon's contract could end up as a bad one. 6 more years at 22 per. His home run power has mysteriously vanished and his walks took a big dip last year. Something is not right with him.

[mvp 78]

But if they spend that money on a broken down Napoli and aging Victorino, does it make it any better?

[Bellhorn04]

But if they spend that money on a broken down Napoli and aging Victorino, does it make it any better?

 

It's anybody's guess how Napoli and Victorino will do. But even if Napoli's contract was 3 for 39, that's 2 players making 7 million a year less, and signed for 3 years less and 2 years less than AGon and Crawford. Plus we got the pitching prospects.

[Palodios]

The one interesting thing about their farm, though, is that Cherington will have to make some tough decisions. The sox system contains little depth, but it has a handful of guys who could be all-star caliber players. If Cherington picks the wrong guy or ships off a future All Star for a short term fix, then he'll sink the boat

 

I think Cherrington learned his lesson from Josh Reddick. We'll definitely be seeing the Red Sox hoard their prospects for a while, and they probably won't be trading any top 10 prospects unless it is for an ace.

[mvp 78]

It's anybody's guess how Napoli and Victorino will do. But even if Napoli's contract was 3 for 39, that's 2 players making 7 million a year less, and signed for 3 years less and 2 years less than AGon and Crawford. Plus we got the pitching prospects.

 

And if the prospects do jack and Ben can't find productive FA's? The deal isn't a slam dunk win at this point.

[jung]

If you want to look at how much of an overpay AGons may very likely be...see Overbay. While Overbay was leading the league in doubles he was making about $8M per.

 

Without significant HR power, Agons is Wade Boggs in a bigger suit size. There is every chance that we would one day have been discussing AGons contract in the same terms as CC's contract.

 

Plus, because they are shorter term contracts, chances are much greater that you can move the Napoli and Victorino contracts if you had to. No way to move those CC and AGons contracts without chipping in big bucks without the gift that keeps on giving from LA.

 

Don't get me wrong....I have some issues with what appears to be the Sox plan for this year. However that does not change the scope and scale of the benefit derived from the LA deal.

 

And.....

 

While it is easy to downplay Beckett because he is only making $15M per on two years left, his stature on the team would have made it very difficult for the Sox going forward. He was becoming the kind of drain on this club that V would have been if he hung around. We could not take another two minutes of V and I doubt we could afford another two years of Beckett.

 

The LT cap penalties as of 2014, are now very difficult for even the Yankees to ignore. So you really can't just say, the Sox are a big market team and should just be able to absorb multiple s***, long term contracts.

[Spitball]

If you want to look at how much of an overpay AGons may very likely be...see Overbay. While Overbay was leading the league in doubles he was making about $8M per.

 

Without significant HR power, Agons is Wade Boggs in a bigger suit size. There is every chance that we would one day have been discussing AGons contract in the same terms as CC's contract.

 

Plus, because they are shorter term contracts, chances are much greater that you can move the Napoli and Victorino contracts if you had to. No way to move those CC and AGons contracts without chipping in big bucks without the gift that keeps on giving from LA.

 

Don't get me wrong....I have some issues with what appears to be the Sox plan for this year. However that does not change the scope and scale of the benefit derived from the LA deal.

 

And.....

 

While it is easy to downplay Beckett because he is only making $15M per on two years left, his stature on the team would have made it very difficult for the Sox going forward. He was becoming the kind of drain on this club that V would have been if he hung around. We could not take another two minutes of V and I doubt we could afford another two years of Beckett.

 

The LT cap penalties as of 2014, are now very difficult for even the Yankees to ignore. So you really can't just say, the Sox are a big market team and should just be able to absorb multiple s***, long term contracts.

 

:thumbsup:

[SoxSport]

I don't recall Websters ML record being all that impressive, though he's a highly rated prospect. The problem is no matter what he and DeLaRosa do in ST, they are pretty much blocked unless somebody gets hurt.

 

The Red Sox have a rigid philosophy of not putting prospects in the BP for a time before starting--unlike what the TB Rays do. So they are stuck in the minors until they are brought up to start. Sooner or later, they'll get their chance, but it will depend more on what the current rotation does, and not on what they do in AAA.

 

I'm no expert on pitching practices, but their poor pitching performance in recent years suggests they ought to take a look at what they are doing.

[SoxSport]

It's anybody's guess how Napoli and Victorino will do. But even if Napoli's contract was 3 for 39, that's 2 players making 7 million a year less, and signed for 3 years less and 2 years less than AGon and Crawford. Plus we got the pitching prospects.

 

I think they lucked out on Napoli, getting out of that 3 year deal. Now they only have one 3 year deal to an over 30 player. Bradley is blocked this year unless they trade Ellsbury--no matter what he does in ST. And even then, he might be blocked by Victorino, though Vic can play RF.

 

I don't like those 2 year deals, either. If any of the prospects are ready now, it will be tough for them to make the team--and even next year, unless they move some people.

[Dojji]

The Victorino contract I'm not in love with. Everyone else, if someone shows they're fully ready to go, the veteran ahead of them can be shifted for some kind of return.

 

Thing about a 2 year deal is you have to think that it'll be a 1 year deal before most of our prospects are provably ready to go. Any one of our upper minors guys COULD force their way into the majors, but gun to my head, I'm not calling that any single one of them WILL, with the possible exception of Ryan Lavarnway.

 

And the cold fact is that Lavarnway is so unlikely to be a significant upgrade over Salty that I don't see it working out. People who hate Salty are inflating Lavarnway's defensive readiness because they desperately want to believe Salty can be replaced. Lavarnway is not a talented defensive catcher. Even with the low standard he has to reach to exceed Salty's defensive skill, it's very doubtful he's there now, or really ever will be.

 

Or to put it more bluntly, Soxprospects, which is not known for its restraint in touting prospects, especially those with offensive success, still lists Lavarnway formally as a C/DH. The gratuitous inclusion of DH as one of Lavarnway's "positions" is intended to be telling -- and is.

[Sox Fire]

An interesting matchup today...

 

Steven Wright against RA Dickey. After two innings, Red Sox up 2-0.

 

Yeah , i was really interested in seeing how wright would do. Stat wise id say he did really well, but i did not see or watch how he did. Adding to the fact its on spring training ,cant really judge on that.

 

I would like to know,if there are any other thoughts on this guy ,or if anyone else hopes he can really turn into something

[SoxFanForsyth]

They weren't boxed in. Beckett's deal was going to be up in a little bit. AGon was overpaid, but very productive. The one bad contract (CC) wasn't enough to prevent a big market team like the Sox from bringing in other guys.

 

This is all just noise.

 

The fact is that the Red Sox were not going to win with the team as constructed, and had very little to no financial flexibility to go out and acquire that guy who would get them to the next level. We gave that team 1.5 years and in that span, learned that they didn't meld well enough to become a winning team. Certainly, the chemistry issue was exacerbated by the hiring of Valentine, but even with Francona, things weren't going right.

 

The trade with the Dodgers at least gave them the potential to go out and field a team that is capable of winning and bolster the farm system at the same time.

 

I think we saw just how powerful it can be to have good arms in the system just by watching games the past couple days. De La Rosa hitting 100 multiple times. Webster sitting 94-97, hitting 99. Those are starting pitchers with power arms and those do not come along very often.

 

The Sox may or may not win the WS this year, but with the additions of the power arms of De La Rosa and Webster to tack along with the likes of Bradley, Bogaerts, and Barnes, they've certainly set themselves up for a long run of sustained success, which is something they were not going to get with the team as constructed last year.

[mvp 78]

Intresting as many of you pegged this team for a WS in 2011. Throw in a volatile manager and you just wanted to blow it up? Funny as that wasn't the argument you were making back then. I guess just formulate arguments to pump up whatever the 40 man roster looks like at any given time? Now who's the one just making noise?

 

If Rubby and Webster flame out and the Sox spend the $ frivolously, then you simply can't call the trade a win for the Sox.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Here's a question -

 

Would Bradley Jr get more out of playing 6x a week in AAA, or by playing 115-125 games for the Sox? I am really starting to move toward liking him as an option for LF. Obviously we have Gomes out there, but Bradley can play LF or RF vs RHP and give Gomes and Victorino the day off against tough righties. Not to mention he can spell some of those guys in day to day games.

 

If Gomes plays 80, Victorino plays 140, and Ellsbury plays 150, that leaves 116 games for Bradley Jr right there.

 

So, if he's going to be the starting CF going forward, would it be better to give him a year of experience in the MLB level over 120 games and be around guys like Gomes, Napoli, Victorino, etc?

 

In terms of talent, I think he's got enough talent to be successful at the MLB level right now. He can probably go out and hit .265/.360/.420 as it stands right now, and play elite defense in all 3 OF positions.

 

Thoughts?