2013 Spring Training

[jung]

I actually think most of the hell BC catches is not specifically for moves that he has made. I think he ends up starting with two strikes no matter what he does.

 

Strike 1......he is viewed as a left over from the Theo era and most particularly the latter part of the Theo era. BC has certainly been here long enough to share in both the credit and the blame. However if you look it as handed down from Theo and then look at the general view regarding Theo, it is not a very pretty picture.

 

Strike 2......he is the guy that was picked by the brain trust of JH, LL and JW. They are not getting high marks lately either. So I think he takes some flak for being the guy Mo, Larry and Curly have chosen to be the GM. Some may view that as no better a decision than choosing Bobby V to be the Manager.

 

All of that said, people are calling the 2013 Sox, BC's team and I can't say that I am real thrilled with what he has done here for all the reasons that I have discussed in earlier posts. To sum it up though and at a Macro level I would have preferred that he had done more to move forward and less to sort of mark time. A year lost is a year lost and I think at the end of the day, in retrospect it will turn out looking like a year lost. It is not enough for me to go wild beating the guy up over especially since I save most of my Management ire for the aforementioned Mo, Larry and Curly.

[Bellhorn04]

2013 is a big year for Cherries. Judge him on results.

[a700hitter]

I'm not saying Cherries is right, wrong, smart or dumb. I'm not a Cherries sympathizer, like I said before I'm pretty much indifferent on the guy. I like somethings, I don't like somethings and I move on. Just look at the situation for what it is. I just don't understand the stance of no matter what the guy does it's wrong.

I don't hate or love FO people. They don't play the game. Cherries record thus far has been undistinguished. His hands were tied last lear by payroll considerations so he was given a pass. This year he had a lot of flexibility with payroll-- a clean slate, and he really has not done much to get excited about. We will have to see how the season turns out, but to come to the conclusion un March 19th that they need some starting pitching depth.. well duh!

[Dojji]

Also when it comes to Vazquez we have to remember he's 22. We all know most C develop offensively a bit later then most. If he's 26+ hitting around the Mendoza line then his window to be a league starter is probably closing rapidly. He still has time to develop offensively.

 

That and if you look at the numbers, his approach is already pretty advanced, especially for his age. OBP is his leading skill, which for a guy who's never going to hit THAT much, is what you like to see, especially in a 22 year old kid who just broke into AA at age 21 -- which is really young, ridiculously so for a catcher.

 

Also interesting to note, Vazquez was put into a regimen of fall and winter ball to stretch his total number of games played last year to exactly 120. They went out of their way to expand his workload last year to see if he could take a starting catcher's worth of games. Seems to me that I'm not the only one leaving the door open.

[a700hitter]

He's looking for depth(like most other GM's) and gets crap for it. If he had come out and said " no we like our depth and aren't in the market" the same people would be calling him a baboon ass for believing the rotation could make it through the season unscathed. And let's not go the "but he should have already signed more depth during the off season" routine.

It's the same issue. It's not like we would be criticizing him for taking opposite sides of the same argument. We need starting pitching depth. Cherries is just realizing this-- a little late IMO.

[Dojji]

Cherries is a bit of a slow learner. Depth issues have been evident the entire off season. This guy is seriously short bus material.

 

You're basing this off a speculation piece.

 

You realize that, right?

 

Personally I'm fine with our level of depth, which is actually better than it's been for awhile if we can keep hold of Aceves. Between Aceves, Morales and de la Rosa we have some big league experience, and our pitching depth in terms of guys who could be 6 months or less away looks good -- along with de la Rosa, Barnes is in range if he has a strong start to the year in the minors, and Webster's a very solid pitching prospect.

 

In terms of underrated prospects -- keep an eye on Brandon Workman. He's kind of under the radar because he's an older prospect for his level, and hes not considered in the same sphere as the big 3 of Barns, Webster, and de la Rosa, but he's performed fairly solidly when called on, throws in the mid 90's, has a solid K and K/BB rate in the minors, and he's rising fairly steadily through the ranks. With a strong year this year he ought to break into AAA sometime around the all star break and if he does that, maybe he makes himself an option.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I don't get it.

 

Every single team needs SP depth.

 

The Yankees have Phelps, but nothing after that.

 

Hell, if the Sox have a couple guys go down, at least they still have both Webster and Aceves who can step in while a guy like Morales gets back into condition.

 

It's not as if we don't have a #6, #7, or #8 starter right now. Morales is already back into a throwing program. People are all freaked out because he has a bit of a bulging disc. Well, so did Hughes. Nobody said "Oh the Yankees are done. They have no SP depth and Hughes has a bulging disc. Cashman is an idiot". Hell. We have 5 starters and 2 solid depth options right now, and we're in trouble?!?

 

It's just so damn hypocritical.

[Dojji]

Lester

Buchholz

Doubront

Dempster

Lackey

Aceves

Morales

(Miller?)

Webster

(Wright?)

de la Rosa

(Doyle?)

(Workman? Barnes? Hernandez? All fairly solid options for this layer of the depth chart)

 

Personally I'm actually fairly intrigued by Terry Doyle's numbers. He's probably AAAA and he's not high on our depth chart, but his numbers in the minors aren't unimpressive, and apparently he's a 5 pitch guy. Things would have to go really pear-shaped to get him a shot, but I'd like to see him pitch maybe a game or two sometime this year if the team falls out of it.

[Palodios]

And let's not go the "but he should have already signed more depth during the off season" routine. We have no idea how many players the tried to bring in as depth signings. I don't think it's hard to believe that you can't convince every fringe SP to come to your team as depth and most likely start the season in the minors when there are other/better opportunities around the league to crack someone's 25 man roster.

 

Is this targeted to me? I have a variety of mixed reactions to his signings. Gomes, Uehara, Napoli, Ross all for 24 million? Great. Dempster? I don't love it, but it is a very reasonable signing. Hanrahan for Stolmy? Well done. Victorino? Love the player, deal is a bit crazy.

 

The one thing I'm highly critical about is how they've handled starting pitching. Their rotation had the worst ERA in Red Sox history and somehow adding Dempster is going to fix everything? We heard about so much activity while they were looking at pitching, they seemed to be on everyone. Then, Dempster was signed and then silence. Lackey should have been the #6 guy.

[mvp 78]

I don't get it.

 

Every single team needs SP depth.

 

The Yankees have Phelps, but nothing after that.

 

Hell, if the Sox have a couple guys go down, at least they still have both Webster and Aceves who can step in while a guy like Morales gets back into condition.

 

It's not as if we don't have a #6, #7, or #8 starter right now. Morales is already back into a throwing program. People are all freaked out because he has a bit of a bulging disc. Well, so did Hughes. Nobody said "Oh the Yankees are done. They have no SP depth and Hughes has a bulging disc. Cashman is an idiot". Hell. We have 5 starters and 2 solid depth options right now, and we're in trouble?!?

 

It's just so damn hypocritical.

Personally, if Lester was pitching to Sabbathia's level and leading the staff, people would be less worried. When the #1 and 2 SP's had ERA's well above 4 last year, it leaves cause for concern.

 

If that top of the staff could pitch to our previous expectations, it wouldn't be an issue at all.

 

This team doesn't seem to be good enough right now to worry about the #5 SP. There are more pressing organizational needs. This team won't miss the playoffs just because they didn't have solid 6-8 options (though I'd be psyched to have Webster fill in as the 6th guy when needed).

[mvp 78]

.

 

In terms of underrated prospects -- keep an eye on Brandon Workman. He's kind of under the radar because he's an older prospect for his level, and hes not considered in the same sphere as the big 3 of Barns, Webster, and de la Rosa, but he's performed fairly solidly when called on, throws in the mid 90's, has a solid K and K/BB rate in the minors, and he's rising fairly steadily through the ranks. With a strong year this year he ought to break into AAA sometime around the all star break and if he does that, maybe he makes himself an option.

Workman is projected to wind up relieving, no?

[BSN07]

Is this targeted to me? I have a variety of mixed reactions to his signings. Gomes, Uehara, Napoli, Ross all for 24 million? Great. Dempster? I don't love it, but it is a very reasonable signing. Hanrahan for Stolmy? Well done. Victorino? Love the player, deal is a bit crazy.

 

The one thing I'm highly critical about is how they've handled starting pitching. Their rotation had the worst ERA in Red Sox history and somehow adding Dempster is going to fix everything? We heard about so much activity while they were looking at pitching, they seemed to be on everyone. Then, Dempster was signed and then silence. Lackey should have been the #6 guy.

 

No not you directly, it was a preemptive strike for the crowd that was going to use that scenario as a scapegoat. You know the group that believes every player should come to the Sox and if they don't it means Cherries got his lunch ate.

[BSN07]

Workman is projected to wind up relieving, no?

 

Last I read on him he was still working as a SP. I could be behind though,

[Bellhorn04]

The one thing I'm highly critical about is how they've handled starting pitching. Their rotation had the worst ERA in Red Sox history and somehow adding Dempster is going to fix everything? We heard about so much activity while they were looking at pitching, they seemed to be on everyone. Then, Dempster was signed and then silence. Lackey should have been the #6 guy.

 

If you told me in November all they were going to do was sign Dempster I would have been livid. But now that it's a done deal I think I'm OK with it. They're obviously betting huge on Lester and Buchholz having major rebounds. If they bet right they're going to look good. If they bet wrong they're going to look bad and a lot of fans are going to be ripping mad. Me, I get to just watch it play out. It may seem strange but I'm really looking forward to watching this season unfold.

[a700hitter]

If you told me in November all they were going to do was sign Dempster I would have been livid. But now that it's a done deal I think I'm OK with it. They're obviously betting huge on Lester and Buchholz having major rebounds. If they bet right they're going to look good. If they bet wrong they're going to look bad and a lot of fans are going to be ripping mad. Me, I get to just watch it play out. It may seem strange but I'm really looking forward to watching this season unfold.

Dempster is the ugly girl in the bar and it is closing time. That is why you are okay with it.

[VA Sox Fan]

If you told me in November all they were going to do was sign Dempster I would have been livid. But now that it's a done deal I think I'm OK with it. They're obviously betting huge on Lester and Buchholz having major rebounds. If they bet right they're going to look good. If they bet wrong they're going to look bad and a lot of fans are going to be ripping mad. Me, I get to just watch it play out. It may seem strange but I'm really looking forward to watching this season unfold.

 

I don't think it's strange at all. It's a new season, anything can happen. April 1st can't get here soon enough for me. You are one of the most reasonable and level headed posters out here. It makes sense that you would watch the season/pitching play out and not be one of the ripping mad fans.

 

Dempster's had a good ST, we can only hope he can hang in the AL during the regular season. Lester and Buchholz' have also had a good ST. Here's hoping for good health etc etc!

 

I'm cautiously optimistic about the upcoming season. This team can make you happy or break your heart. I'm not expecting a WS but also not expecting a last place finish. Making the play offs would be and unexpected feat, but it sure would shut the more negative portion of the fanbase the hell up!

[Palodios]

If you told me in November all they were going to do was sign Dempster I would have been livid. But now that it's a done deal I think I'm OK with it. They're obviously betting huge on Lester and Buchholz having major rebounds. If they bet right they're going to look good. If they bet wrong they're going to look bad and a lot of fans are going to be ripping mad. Me, I get to just watch it play out. It may seem strange but I'm really looking forward to watching this season unfold.

 

This season will be a very watchful one. They'll ride out their 1/2 and either be a playoff team, or they'll dump the team and pick up a pile of high upside prospects. The general strategy and open flexibility puts the Red Sox in a win-win situation to put the organization back on track.

 

However, the problem I see with this team is that even if Lester and Buchholz rebound, it doesn't even matter if the #4/5 starters are Chris Hernandez and Steven Wright. We've already seen what happens when the team has a good 1-2 punch in Lester + Beckett/Buchholz, but the back end sucks.

[BornToRun]

I don't think it's strange at all. It's a new season, anything can happen. April 1st can't get here soon enough for me. You are one of the most reasonable and level headed posters out here. It makes sense that you would watch the season/pitching play out and not be one of the ripping mad fans.

 

Dempster's had a good ST, we can only hope he can hang in the AL during the regular season. Lester and Buchholz' have also had a good ST. Here's hoping for good health etc etc!

 

I'm cautiously optimistic about the upcoming season. This team can make you happy or break your heart. I'm not expecting a WS but also not expecting a last place finish. Making the play offs would be and unexpected feat, but it sure would shut the more negative portion of the fanbase the hell up!

 

I am right there with you. I see reason for optimism this year. I'm not expecting us to win it all this year but I expect us to be competitive and think a high 80's, low 90's win total is within the realm of realistic.

 

I think our bullpen will be solid and the Sox have never had problems scoring runs and I think we'll be able to have a decent offense despite Ortiz's early health issues. It all hinges on the rotation:

If Lester and Clay can regain some semblance of their former selves with dempster being a solid 3, Lackey being more 2010 than 11, and if Felix/Webster can hold down the 5 spot, I see no reason to think we can't be in the playoff race.

 

I know that is a lot that needs to go right but the 2nd WC gives us one more spot to fight for and if the talent on this team performs to its capabilities, I think we can snag it or something better.

[Dojji]

He pitched about 140 innings last year. If he projects into the pen it's not because of durability.

 

EDIT: Looking into it, his mechanics are a bit unconventional for a starter, that's where the "projects as an RP" stuff seems to come from. Sounds like his stuff isn't the issue per se, it's a concern about his ability to get outs the third time through the order with a high effort delivery. Still, he hasn't slowed down yet, so he's worth keeping an eye on.

 

EDIT2: Whoops, didn't notice the new page. This post was about Brandon Workman.

[wyo-sox]

I expect to have a fun year as a fan. I do not expect them to make the playoffs, but also see no reason not to hope that they can. What I mean is if I'm a Dodgers fan I expect to make the playoffs.....if I'm a Astros fan I have no hope of thinking things could break our way and we make the playoffs. I feel as if the Sox are in the middle of those extremes which frees me as a fan of preconceived notions to judge the season by.

 

I am officially optimistic but won't be livid and crushed if we have a poor season. If we have a poor season I think Cherries has put together a good roster that can be easily dismantled to contenders for future building pieces.

[VA Sox Fan]

I am right there with you. I see reason for optimism this year. I'm not expecting us to win it all this year but I expect us to be competitive and think a high 80's, low 90's win total is within the realm of realistic.

 

I think our bullpen will be solid and the Sox have never had problems scoring runs and I think we'll be able to have a decent offense despite Ortiz's early health issues. It all hinges on the rotation:

If Lester and Clay can regain some semblance of their former selves with dempster being a solid 3, Lackey being more 2010 than 11, and if Felix/Webster can hold down the 5 spot, I see no reason to think we can't be in the playoff race.

 

I know that is a lot that needs to go right but the 2nd WC gives us one more spot to fight for and if the talent on this team performs to its capabilities, I think we can snag it or something better.

 

Good to see you BTR! Hope you'll be posting more now that the season is almost here! Love your new signature BTW!

[BornToRun]

Good to see you BTR! Hope you'll be posting more now that the season is almost here! Love your new signature BTW!

 

It's good to be back and thank you. Let's hope this year ends better than last.

 

And hopefully the resurrection of The John Lackey Does Not Suck Club will prove itself necessary.

[seabeachfred]

I've heard good things about Swihart, that said I haven't seen nearly enough to make any judgments of his future.

 

I'm certainly concerned about the way Lavarnway is trending. As a guy who values defense at catcher I'm not as enamored of Lavs as I have been and I'm not sure he has what it takes to push Salty for a job in the areas where it matters, which is defensively.

 

The catcher who has me most excited right now is obviously Christian Vazquez. I'll be monitoring his offensive progress closely to see if he has any chance to hit enough to squeak by as the catching version of Jose Iglesias. That throwing arm is a generational tool and a catcher doesn't need much more than an arm like that to be a backup catcher. He'll make the majors at some point, I have no doubt at all. My question is can he hit at least a little, because if he can, he can build a case to start even on a team like this one.

 

Doj, the Red Sox were sitting in the tall cotton when they signed Swihart. He has a full ride to Texas, one of the best baseball colleges in the country and had three other major schools trying to recruit him. When he signed with the Red Sox, they put some film on him hitting on their website and as a baseball coach for over 30 years I could tell that this kid was a hitter. He had quick hands, hit from both sides of the plate and hit line drives consistently. Oh yes, he will be facing better pitching as he rises in the organization but a guy who has these kind of tools should be watched very carefully. I know Vasquez has a gun for an arm but his hitting is suspect even in the minors. If by some chance Iggy makes it as our SS there is no way I want two black holes in the lineup.

[seabeachfred]

When it comes to Cherries it is abundantly clear haters are just going to hate. He's looking for depth(like most other GM's) and gets crap for it. If he had come out and said " no we like our depth and aren't in the market" the same people would be calling him a baboon ass for believing the rotation could make it through the season unscathed. And let's not go the "but he should have already signed more depth during the off season" routine. We have no idea how many players the tried to bring in as depth signings. I don't think it's hard to believe that you can't convince every fringe SP to come to your team as depth and most likely start the season in the minors when there are other/better opportunities around the league to crack someone's 25 man roster.

 

I'm not saying Cherries is right, wrong, smart or dumb. I'm not a Cherries sympathizer, like I said before I'm pretty much indifferent on the guy. I like somethings, I don't like somethings and I move on. Just look at the situation for what it is. I just don't understand the stance of no matter what the guy does it's wrong.

 

When I look into Cherington's whole body of work since he became GM in October of 2011 the results overall are far from impressive. We needed some pitching help for 2012 and he didn't get that for us unless Germano, Silva eato and Carpenter fit your fancy. His best signing was Cody Ross and then he blew it by letting him walk and signing an inferior defensive player in his spot who may not hit 22 homers and drive in over 80 runs. Personally I think the guy is risk averse and is very hesitant to put his ass on the line, and I still wonder just how much power he really has with that snake Lucchino still pretending he is a baseball guru. From our pitching standpoint we have to hope that Webster does very well at Pawtucket and is on the fast track to Boston or that Aceves finally gets his s*** together and starts pitching with the ability he has shown on occasion.

[BSN07]

. Making the play offs would be and unexpected feat, but it sure would shut the more negative portion of the fanbase the hell up!

 

Unfortunately it won't. They will call it dumb luck and start in with the same BS the day after the WS ends. No amount of winning will change them.

[BSN07]

When I look into Cherington's whole body of work since he became GM in October of 2011 the results overall are far from impressive. We needed some pitching help for 2012 and he didn't get that for us unless Germano, Silva eato and Carpenter fit your fancy. His best signing was Cody Ross and then he blew it by letting him walk and signing an inferior defensive player in his spot who may not hit 22 homers and drive in over 80 runs. Personally I think the guy is risk averse and is very hesitant to put his ass on the line, and I still wonder just how much power he really has with that snake Lucchino still pretending he is a baseball guru. From our pitching standpoint we have to hope that Webster does very well at Pawtucket and is on the fast track to Boston or that Aceves finally gets his s*** together and starts pitching with the ability he has shown on occasion.

 

I think he has done a pretty decent job cleaning up the mess that he was handed. He got rid of a lot of dead weight and the system hasn't looked this good in awhile.

[reYoukilis]

I think he has done a pretty decent job cleaning up the mess that he was handed. He got rid of a lot of dead wait and the system hasn't looked this good in awhile.

Yeah, no one saw that big unloading to the Dodgers coming (I dont think), and it took alot of balls. Because of that move, Im willing to wait and see how he does after it.

 

I do question some of his moves before the big trade, most notably, Valentine, Bard as starter and getting rid of a personal fave who went on to continued success, Matt Albers. But as Cherington said, they have a plan and each move is now a part of a bigger picture which is something I dont think they did before.

[VA Sox Fan]

Unfortunately it won't. They will call it dumb luck and start in with the same BS the day after the WS ends. No amount of winning will change them.

 

I hear you. So true. The nay-sayers are never happy and never will be, with anything, ever. It's easier to blame, blame, blame and "know" more than everyone else. Blah blah blah.

[a700hitter]

I hear you. So true. The nay-sayers are never happy and never will be, with anything, ever. It's easier to blame, blame, blame and "know" more than everyone else. Blah blah blah.

Who are these phantoms? I'll be happy if in 2013 we return to respectability and play some meaningful games in September. I have said that since last season ended. So, who are these fans that would not be thrilled to make the playoffs?

[VA Sox Fan]

Who are these phantoms? I'll be happy if in 2013 we return to respectability and play some meaningful games in September. I have said that since last season ended. So, who are these fans that would not be thrilled to make the playoffs?

 

Did I mention phantoms? I don't think so.

 

"Fans" that don't want to make the playoffs? Didn't mention them either.

 

Just a general statement about nay-sayers and the constantly negative folks and the folks that know more about what is best for this team than others.

 

Feeling attacked or ganged up on Mr. Victim? That's your conscience. Not my post.