2013 Spring Training

[Dojji]

Anyone paying attention to Vazquez? Dude just threw out another ******* trying to stick his paws in the cookie jar.

 

Christian Vazquez has my attention for sure.

 

I look at Vazquez and I see our future backup catcher for a lot of years.

 

I see his upside as Josh Thole-esque offensively, that plus an elite arm can get you a starting gig. What I don't know is if it can get you one on the Red Sox. They like their hitting catchers. I'd like to think they're not immune to the obvious though. I'm sure that Vazquez has their attention at this point.

 

Actually if I had to pick one of the spring training guys to crack the roster, and had to pick between Bradley and Vazquez, I'd take Vazquez hands down. Vazquez as a backup/LIDR with his arm could be an absolutely tremendous asset late in close games. Bring out the closing pitcher and the closing catcher, both with high octane arms.

 

Only the fact that I think he does have the talent, with luck, to develop enough offensive ability to allow his D to carry him as a starter, keeps me from calling for him to break camp with the team, or at least be up on april 12 or whenever it was people were talking of Bradley.

[mvp 78]

But you can't bring up Vazquez before April 12th! You'll lose a year of service time!

[Dojji]

Yeah, I noticed that and fixed it in edit.

 

I do think that Vazquez is one of those weird cases where a lack of offensive success might warrant a callup. If he isn't going to hit well enough to start, he's already clearly able to live off his one elite tool and probably beat out Ross as a backup right now.

[Palodios]

Anyone paying attention to Vazquez? Dude just threw out another ******* trying to stick his paws in the cookie jar.

 

I keep hearing more and more good things about him. The hope is that someday he'll learn how to hit.

[Dojji]

It's not a vain hope. He did well in Salem against age appropriate competition, then struggled as a 21 year old in AA.

 

if he can hit as well as Josh Thole usually does, or as well as he did before this last year, that's all I'd expect of him, that plus the laser guided missle launcher on his shoulder would be more than enough for me. That's how Yadier Molina got started, and Molina was elite even before his stick came around.

 

Course, full disclaimer, definitely not saying Christian Vazquez is Yadier Molina.

 

But I'm not saying he isn't either. This kid is an underrated talent. He could peak as the pre-breakout version of Yadier Molina, and I'd be perfectly good with that. That level of performance is within Christian Vazquez's talent, if he can harness it.

[jung]

Vasquez has an ungodly quick release.....something like 0.2 sec under average. Imagine how much that is in real terms. Heck you could almost lollypop it to 2nd and catch the guy stealing. He has a better arm than that so he is turning that 0.2 sec advantage into Out by a Mile at second base.

[Dojji]

So it's unusually good mechanics and a great arm. Awesome. Hope he stays healthy.

[Palodios]

But you can't bring up Vazquez before April 12th! You'll lose a year of service time!

 

Agreed, good point.

[Palodios]

Vasquez has an ungodly quick release.....something like 0.2 sec under average. Imagine how much that is in real terms. Heck you could almost lollypop it to 2nd and catch the guy stealing. He has a better arm than that so he is turning that 0.2 sec advantage into Out by a Mile at second base.

 

He threw from home to second in 1.77 seconds. Current Red Sox scouts have never seen that kind of release, apparently.

 

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/alex-speier/2013/03/12/closer-behind-plate-making-christian-vazquez-c

[wyo-sox]

He is doing it quick and it looks so smooth and relaxed when he throws a runner out. Fun to watch.

[Dojji]

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/ba...tian-vazquez-c

 

So he came from the same region as the Molinas, Benito Santiago, and Pudge Rodriguez. And idolized and carefully studied Pudge's technique growing up. Logged hours and hours of hard work every day before he was drafted. And has trained and practiced with the Molinas in the offseason in the last couple years, doing the same things they themselves did to get ready for the season and probably soaked up as much about what it actually took to make and stick in the big leagues as he could.

 

That's 4 different world series champion catchers, 3 of them known for their own defense (sorry Bengie), from which to draw inspiration and technical advice as well as advice on a million little things about how to make the big leagues and stick and thrive there. An embarrassment of riches in terms of mentorship.

 

Sounds like a kid who really gets it and has plenty of access to a great wealth of big league experience even outside the organization. And is putting the work in himself to take advantage of his chances.

 

I'm impressed. Very good groundwork by the EEI reporters. And a lot of stuff to hear there that will get you excited about Vazquez.

 

Great stuff to hear to be sure.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Not saying it will ever happen, but if the Sox ever roll out Vazquez at C, Iggy at SS, Pedroia at 2B, and Bradley in CF, that could/would be the best defense up the middle that I've ever seen on one team.

[seabeachfred]

Aww, come on sbf. I had brains enough to spell his name correctly. Stephen is so lucky to have a concussion or else he and his retired brother would have to suffer your wrath. I just don't wish that on anyone! Not even the "fragile" Drew brothers.

 

You know VA, you could have taken my whole post and critiqued it but you chose to focus only on my first sentence. You must be a liberal because that's the way they butcher my fellow conservatives by twisting what they say around so it no longer has the same meaning.

 

True, I might have been overly sensitive when I replied but I couldn't help feeling their was spite and animosity in the way you responded. I will back down if I'm wrong but I don't think so. I once suggested that we no longer communicate since there seems to be a wall between us. I would suggest that again.

[BSN07]

Not saying it will ever happen, but if the Sox ever roll out Vazquez at C, Iggy at SS, Pedroia at 2B, and Bradley in CF, that could/would be the best defense up the middle that I've ever seen on one team.

 

Ya I can't think of a recent group that has that defensive upside.

 

I haven't seen much of Vazquez, but everything I'm reading seems to be positive. I wouldn't expect him this year though with the amount of Catchers in front of him.

[seabeachfred]

You should have gone with:

 

Fred, if your prostate was dynamite, you could finally sink California into the Pacific.

 

The peanut gallery is heard from---that from a person who couldn't make it in California, couldn't last a year in Brooklyn, but now is trying his hand in comedy. What's next on your never ending search for Hyperion? Try Vegas.......NOT!!!!!!!!!

[seabeachfred]

To be fair, each player is different. If the Sox thought that Bradley would hit .117 for a month, this wouldn't even be a consideration because it's partly replacing Ortiz's offensive production. Not his power, but at least having someone out there that can get on base and play elite D, bring other aspects to the game. If they thought he was just going to bomb for a month, then I don't think they'd even think about this.

 

SFF---If what you say is true about service time and that we could still have Bradley for seven years and work it around short trips to the minors, then fine, if he can hack it, bring him up. Look, we all know that Gomes hits lefties very well, and that Victorino is better against them as well (even though he was s***** with both when he was with the Dodgers last summer). That means we could use a LH hitter against RH pitching. Jackie could be that man and we could give him a shot. My only question would be is he ready? I certainly don't look forward to seeing Nava or Sweeney out there because we've seen this scene before. They are who they are and won't get better. They might get off to a decent start but as was the case twice with Nava and last year with Sweeney they faded badly as the season wore on.

[seabeachfred]

right. The team is certainly not going to put itself in a position where it has to COUNT on Bradley. They should have learned that lesson with Kalish, even if they didn't learn it with Coco Crisp (seriously, I loved Covelli, he was dynamite in 07, but to pretend he was as advertized at the time of trade is to engage in a delusion).

 

Dojii, seems to be you are trying to compare wild salmon with rat s***. How can you make a comparison of Bradley with Wily Mo Pena. Except for some power Pena was a total plane crash everywhere else. He was dumb on the bases, couldn't field worth s***, and was a strikeout machine. I heard from a Red Sox scout that knew Dave Magadan that Francona was actually scared shitless to even put him in the outfield and was one reason Epstein went after Drew for the 2007 season. I just can't figure your analogy out at all.

 

As for Crisp, dynamite in 2007? You have to mean defense because he was totally s***** on offense, so bad that Fenway erupted in wild applause when Ellsbury was finally put in the lineup in the ALCS. What I do agree with you on is if the Red Sox are not going to give Bradley a full shot at a starting spot or think he may not be ready, then start him at Pawtucket, hope he rakes down there and when Nava, Sweeney, Victorino etc, f*** up as I know they will, then bring Jackie up.....to stay.

[seabeachfred]

Seriously, you are comparing Bradley to Wily Mo who was complete project? Terrible terrible analogy. Bradley can contribute with his glove, arm and speed even if he doesn't hit initially. Wily Mo was a train wreck in every aspect except for HR distance. Tito was afraid to put him out their because he played every ball like it was a hand grenade. Inconsistent playing time was not Wily Mo's problem.

 

Damn Ted---I should have read all the posts instead of starting with the first ones today. If I had I could have saved myself repeating pretty much what you wrote. Wily Mo Pena? What a piece of human refuse that guy was.....and notice within two years after we got rid of him he was out of baseball. I actually remember seeing a game against the Reds on my computer in 2005 when he played a fly ball off his head for a Red Sox home run. Next Spring Epstein traded for him. Real heady move.

 

BTW, remember Darling Darnell, that three season train wreck we had? Guess where I saw him today? On TV playing for the Cubbies. Seems our old friend Epstink is going to convince himself the guy can really play baseball.

[BSN07]

Excited to see Marrero today

[jung]

Was Iggy announced with back spasm's? If so, guy cannot catch a break to save his skin.

[BSN07]

Was Iggy announced with back spasm's? If so, guy cannot catch a break to save his skin.

 

Ciriaco had back spasms

[jung]

Thanks 07

[jung]

Felix, once settled in, has really kept the hitters off balance. I have yet to see any team of hitters look like they have caught up to the pitchers yet this spring. I am really struggling to remember seeing so much off speed stuff so early in a spring from the pitchers though. The hitters just don't seem to have taken enough swings as yet and are for the most part out ahead of anything off speed or breaking that the pitcher is offering. Tons and tons of GB's hit so far as the hitters have not even been able to get many balls in the air so far this spring. That goes for all of the Spring games I have watched so far.

[jung]

Jim Rice is never going to make much of a booth analyst or anything like that but given the opportunity to just talk about baseball, like he is getting tonight you almost always hear something that makes sense but that you just did not know or had not thought about in a long time or maybe ever.

 

So two comments from Jim tonight:

You cannot go up to the plate looking for six pitches from a pitcher or four pitches or even three pitches. Two pitches are all he looked for and then he looked for location. To Rice, it was either a FB or it as not a FB. He says he treated all off speed and breaking balls like the same pitch and just cared about the location. He used dice-K as an example saying that he would not have cared a nit about six pitches or the gyro-ball. As far as he was concerned, it was either a FB or it wasn't. In my case, my baseball career ended at guys that only had two pitches. However maybe that puts that whole dice-K and his six pitches thing into some perspective. Jim might be short changing the cutter though as I don't think many or maybe any guys were throwing the cutter when he played.

 

Second item from Jim was that the players all taught each other as much about playing the game as any coach ever taught them. Jim says he no longer sees that happening. The players no longer help each other like they did when he played.

[VA Sox Fan]

You know VA, you could have taken my whole post and critiqued it but you chose to focus only on my first sentence. You must be a liberal because that's the way they butcher my fellow conservatives by twisting what they say around so it no longer has the same meaning.

 

True, I might have been overly sensitive when I replied but I couldn't help feeling their was spite and animosity in the way you responded. I will back down if I'm wrong but I don't think so. I once suggested that we no longer communicate since there seems to be a wall between us. I would suggest that again.

 

I focused on the most ridiculous part of your post because it was so stupid. I'm a life long conservative, just like I'm a life long Red Sox fan. Sorry, you wouldn't understand the later.

 

You enjoy comparing apples to oranges and bringing into the mix subject matters that aren't even on the radar. You are always over sensitive. You react like a scolded child. Grow up.

 

Yeah, we agreed a long time ago to no longer communicate but you couldn't help yourself with the name calling when I wasn't addressing you at all.

 

You simply cannot help yourself and I almost feel sorry for you.... almost.

[VA Sox Fan]

De La Rosa, Webster, Vazquez optioned

 

 

Posted by Peter Abraham, Globe Staff March 15, 2013 06:18 PM

 

 

FORT MYERS, Fla. — The Red Sox optioned three of their more impressive young players to the minors after the first game of today's doubleheader.

 

Righthanders Rubby De La Rosa and Allen Webster were sent to Triple A Pawtucket catcher Christian Vazquez to Double A Portland.

 

Webster had a 1.64 ERA over 11 innings. He allowed nine hits with one walk and 14 strikeouts. He will be in the Pawtucket rotation. De La Rosa had a 9.45 ERA in 6.2 innings. The Sox controlled his innings in spring training and will do the same come the season as he returned late last season after Tommy John surgery.

 

Vazquez hit only .188 but drew raves for his defense, both throwing and with his work behind the plate. He projects to be the starting catcher for Portland.

[jung]

You folks in RI project to have a pretty fun minor league season this year.

[seabeachfred]

I focused on the most ridiculous part of your post because it was so stupid. I'm a life long conservative, just like I'm a life long Red Sox fan. Sorry, you wouldn't understand the later.

 

You enjoy comparing apples to oranges and bringing into the mix subject matters that aren't even on the radar. You are always over sensitive. You react like a scolded child. Grow up.

 

Yeah, we agreed a long time ago to no longer communicate but you couldn't help yourself with the name calling when I wasn't addressing you at all.

 

You simply cannot help yourself and I almost feel sorry for you.... almost.

 

Yezssir asked both of us to cut this s*** out but after that only I did. You sent a post to me stupid; I never sent one to you until you insulted me with one. So it will be tit for tat from here on in. I see stupidity and frustration in your ridiculous and nasty missives to me. This will stop when you stop sending me posts. It is now up to you.

 

And don't go crying to the moderators as is your habit. You started this and you can end it.

[BSN07]

Jim Rice is never going to make much of a booth analyst or anything like that but given the opportunity to just talk about baseball, like he is getting tonight you almost always hear something that makes sense but that you just did not know or had not thought about in a long time or maybe ever.

 

So two comments from Jim tonight:

You cannot go up to the plate looking for six pitches from a pitcher or four pitches or even three pitches. Two pitches are all he looked for and then he looked for location. To Rice, it was either a FB or it as not a FB. He says he treated all off speed and breaking balls like the same pitch and just cared about the location. He used dice-K as an example saying that he would not have cared a nit about six pitches or the gyro-ball. As far as he was concerned, it was either a FB or it wasn't. In my case, my baseball career ended at guys that only had two pitches. However maybe that puts that whole dice-K and his six pitches thing into some perspective. Jim might be short changing the cutter though as I don't think many or maybe any guys were throwing the cutter when he played.

 

Second item from Jim was that the players all taught each other as much about playing the game as any coach ever taught them. Jim says he no longer sees that happening. The players no longer help each other like they did when he played.

 

Ya he was boring. I wish the let Ecks do more ST games.

[a700hitter]

So you instead want to give one of the best prospects in the organization a part time position, instead of him getting everyday AB's in AAA where he doesn't have a ton experience? Please try again. I admire the effort though.

If he can't hack it, they can send him back for more seasoning. Wait the 12 days and bring him up if he is doing well. Nava and Sweeney are a very low bar. I don't admire anything about you.