Lester on the block

[seabeachfred]

Yes. As a Sox fan I have to consider Lester a quality starter. The 2013 season is dependent on him regaining his 2008-2011 form. Age is on Lester's side which is a major positive.

 

He had a bad season. But so did the Red Sox. Lester didn't have much to pitch for. I thought the team as a whole gave up last year. Now, Lester is a professional and ideally should be pitching his heart out whether his team is 10 games above .500 or 10 games below but he is human. I'm willing to give him a mulligan if he goes out and gives us 220 innings next season like we all know he can.

 

Lord Snow----Lester started falling apart the second half of the 2011 season and then compounded his misdemeanor with a gigantic felony with this beer and chicken escapade while he acted liked a worthless follower and flunky. You would have thought he would try and rectify things with a solid 2012 season but as we all know he stunk this past season, especially at Fenway Park. He also spent most of his starts complaining and bitching at the umpires. Now I'm hearing he might be coming back because he's only 28. If these past two seasons are of any indication much of Lester's problems are located between his ears.

 

We finished last with him so what the hell; if we could obtain a great RH power hitting prospect in Will Myers for him I would be glad to undergo a rebuilding job because Lester is both physically and mentally ill-equipped to be a No. 1 or a No. 2 starter for us. Maybe he will prove the doubters wrong but he would have to really make a reversal of this season to bring that off.

[Palodios]

Lord Snow----Lester started falling apart the second half of the 2011 season and then compounded his misdemeanor with a gigantic felony with this beer and chicken escapade while he acted liked a worthless follower and flunky. You would have thought he would try and rectify things with a solid 2012 season but as we all know he stunk this past season, especially at Fenway Park. He also spent most of his starts complaining and bitching at the umpires. Now I'm hearing he might be coming back because he's only 28.

 

In all fairness, he was nominated for the Clemente award for his cancer foundation. I felt the vibe that he was trying to distance himself from the rest of the pitching staff, and with the miscommunication from the coaches, and everything going on, he lost his pitch. In the last year, Tito, Tek, Wake, Beckett and a pile of others who provided him leadership left, and I think that he still needs to wake up and step into the role.

 

So many people have talked about the simple glitch in his throwing mechanics, now is the time for it to get fixed.

[a700hitter]

In all fairness, he was nominated for the Clemente award for his cancer foundation. I felt the vibe that he was trying to distance himself from the rest of the pitching staff, and with the miscommunication from the coaches, and everything going on, he lost his pitch. In the last year, Tito, Tek, Wake, Beckett and a pile of others who provided him leadership left, and I think that he still needs to wake up and step into the role.

 

So many people have talked about the simple glitch in his throwing mechanics, now is the time for it to get fixed.

Whenever I hear that pitching poorly could be a simple glitch in a delivery, I cringe. I have seen too many guys search for that glitch on the way to palooka-ville. I don't know if Lester is finished, but I hope the Sox make the right decision in this regard. As for a possible trade, I'd rather see Lester packaged with Ellsbury for King Felix.

[Lucienbel]

Whenever I hear that pitching poorly could be a simple glitch in a delivery, I cringe. I have seen too many guys search for that glitch on the way to palooka-ville. I don't know if Lester is finished, but I hope the Sox make the right decision in this regard. As for a possible trade, I'd rather see Lester packaged with Ellsbury for King Felix.

 

While I tend to agree that people can continuously try to find that fix in their mechanics and never actually find it, I think there is a valid argument in saying that Lester may have complications that can be fixed. I imagine that going through three pitching coaches, two managers, an established catcher, and all this team drama wouldn't really help anyone go out there and do their job the best they could. It is an individual performance, but it's tough to say that things going around you don't effect your individual performance some, in any aspect of life.

[iortiz]

Sorry but IMO Lester is done in Boston. He could bounce back with another team, say KC, but not in Boston uniform. At this point his value is not that much... So if somehow you can sell him high, do it.

[Bellhorn04]

In his final 12 starts last year Lester had a 3.76 ERA and threw 79 innings, over 6.5 per start. He's hardly a writeoff.

[mvp 78]

This trade has nothing to do with the chicken and beer nonsense. I don't think anyone in baseball ops cares about that at this point.

[a700hitter]

While I tend to agree that people can continuously try to find that fix in their mechanics and never actually find it, I think there is a valid argument in saying that Lester may have complications that can be fixed. I imagine that going through three pitching coaches, two managers, an established catcher, and all this team drama wouldn't really help anyone go out there and do their job the best they could. It is an individual performance, but it's tough to say that things going around you don't effect your individual performance some, in any aspect of life.

I think you are giving him a bunch of excuses. If he could battle through cancer and succeed, he can shake of a managerial change and some pitching coach changes.

[a700hitter]

This trade has nothing to do with the chicken and beer nonsense. I don't think anyone in baseball ops cares about that at this point.

That may be more than a year old, but Lester didn't do anything to move past it as he acted like a spoiled child for the entire 2012 year. His attitude was terrible. Attitude could be a big part of his problem. I am hoping that the problem was attitude and in his head. It's preferable to a physical injury or problem.

[Palodios]

I think you are giving him a bunch of excuses. If he could battle through cancer and succeed, he can shake of a managerial change and some pitching coach changes.

 

We see it happen all the time. Elite players move from one environment to another, and take some time to adjust. Crawford, Adam Dunn, Josh Beckett coming into Boston... we see it very very frequently.Losing Tek, Farrell, Tito, Wake, Beckett a pile of coaches and others changed what Boston meant to Jon Lester.

 

And as far as complaining about pitches... when your catcher can't frame pitches, you don't get the calls you once did.

[a700hitter]

We see it happen all the time. Elite players move from one environment to another, and take some time to adjust. Crawford, Adam Dunn, Josh Beckett coming into Boston... we see it very very frequently.Losing Tek, Farrell, Tito, Wake, Beckett a pile of coaches and others changed what Boston meant to Jon Lester.

 

And as far as complaining about pitches... when your catcher can't frame pitches, you don't get the calls you once did.

I am hoping that the problem is just in his head. He's been in Boston since 2006 so he should be mentally tough enough to survive managerial and pitching coach changes. You make a good point about Salty. I think throwing to Salty may have hurt his game. The big goof just cannot give a good low target and everyone's pitches have been a little up. He needs to go. That could be one of the biggest improvements to the staff.

[Bellhorn04]

Lester's ERA throwing to Salty is 4.55.

[Elktonnick]

We see it happen all the time. Elite players move from one environment to another, and take some time to adjust. Crawford, Adam Dunn, Josh Beckett coming into Boston... we see it very very frequently.Losing Tek, Farrell, Tito, Wake, Beckett a pile of coaches and others changed what Boston meant to Jon Lester.

 

And as far as complaining about pitches... when your catcher can't frame pitches, you don't get the calls you once did.

 

While I think Lester's deteriorating performance results from factors other than the personnel changes, I think there is some merit to criticisms of Salty's lack of skill behind the plate having an adverse affect on all Sox pitching not just Lester. I think it is fair to presume, given the Sox signing of Ross and their interest in Napoli, the FO shares that concern. The Sox probably may not move Lester but I think it is probable that Salty will be dealt.

[a700hitter]

Sorry but IMO Lester is done in Boston. He could bounce back with another team, say KC, but not in Boston uniform. At this point his value is not that much... So if somehow you can sell him high, do it.

You may be right. Hopefully, the FO has a good read on this one way or the other. As Branch Rickey used to say, it's better to trade a player one year too early than one year too late.

[User Name]

In his final 12 starts last year Lester had a 3.76 ERA and threw 79 innings, over 6.5 per start. He's hardly a writeoff.

 

3.20 ERA with a 1.15 WHIP pitching away from Fenway last year. Fastball velocity is still there. There's a lot of evidence that helps conclude that the problem is all in his head.

[BSN07]

In the end I'm fine with keeping Lester. I'm not against trading him for a Myers type player.

 

In a perfect world I'd like to see them build a package around Lester for Felix. Seattle would get the home town guy at the front of their pitching staff plus high potential prospects. So they might be able to sell it to the fan base easier. It's not going to happen, just chewing my gums here.

[iortiz]

You may be right. Hopefully, the FO has a good read on this one way or the other. As Branch Rickey used to say, it's better to trade a player one year too early than one year too late.

 

Let's face it, he has shown a decline. It's funny how people split his numbers. Cherry Pickers. He was a 4.82 ERA pitcher last year, period. You do not have to be Einstein in order to know that he has had attitude/head problems since 2011, and unless they work with his mind, IMO he's cycled in Boston and needs to walk and find fresh air for his own good.

 

If they want to keep him, fine... But do not fool ourselves pretending that he is a #1 or # 2 these days. He is a # 3 at best until he shows the opposite. We need arms. Quality arms. Cherington/FO need to focus on that.

[Lord Snow]

What happened to the fans in Boston? They used to be loyal to their players.

 

Lester was a stud for 4 seasons, for the most part everyone loved him, then he has one bad year and everyone is ready to put him on the next flight out of town. It doesn't make sense. Players have bad years. Often they bounce back.

 

Same thing will Ellsbury, everyone hated him, then he was #2 in MVP voting and everyone loved him, then he got hurt, missed half the year, and came back to a sub-par performance and everyone wants him on the first flight out of town.

[User Name]

Let's face it, he has shown a decline. It's funny how people split his numbers. Cherry Pickers. He was a 4.82 ERA pitcher last year, period. You do not have to be Einstein in order to know that he has had attitude/head problems since 2011, and unless they work with his mind, IMO he's cycled in Boston and needs to walk and find fresh air for his own good.

 

If they want to keep him, fine... But do not fool ourselves pretending that he is a #1 or # 2 these days. He is a # 3 at best until he shows the opposite. We need arms. Quality arms. Cherington/FO need to focus on that.

 

Do you actually know what "cherry picking" in this instance means? I don't think you do.

 

People look at splits because they are indicative of performance disparities. No one's trying to argue that he didn't suck last year, they (me included) are trying to explain why he sucked and if it's fixable. If it is then trading him away makes no sense with the poor state their pitching is already in.

[iortiz]

Do you actually know what "cherry picking" in this instance means? I don't think you do.

 

People look at splits because they are indicative of performance disparities. No one's trying to argue that he didn't suck last year, they (me included) are trying to explain why he sucked and if it's fixable. If it is then trading him away makes no sense with the poor state their pitching is already in.

 

You usually cherry pick and split numbers in order to justify the unjustifiable. Sorry, it's the way you are. Is still the pitching there? IDK. He has shown a decline, that is a fact. If you do not want to see that, is up to you. You split his numbers in order to prove that his pitching still there, hopefully still there... In the end...It's your opinion but nobody knows. Sorry but If he keeps posting high ERAs (hopefully no, if he stays), your splits will not have sense. He will suck, plain and simple.

 

I'm not concerned about Lester's future, If he stays fine, If he walks fine... I'm concern because our FO office has not done nothing in order to fix this team. Almost forget, we have to be patience, like last off-season.

[Bellhorn04]

Let's face it, he has shown a decline. It's funny how people split his numbers. Cherry Pickers. He was a 4.82 ERA pitcher last year, period. You do not have to be Einstein in order to know that he has had attitude/head problems since 2011, and unless they work with his mind, IMO he's cycled in Boston and needs to walk and find fresh air for his own good.

 

If they want to keep him, fine... But do not fool ourselves pretending that he is a #1 or # 2 these days. He is a # 3 at best until he shows the opposite. We need arms. Quality arms. Cherington/FO need to focus on that.

 

Come on, it's one bad season we're talking about. Lots of pitchers have bad seasons and rebound. I could cite lots of examples but it would bore the crap out of everyone.

[iortiz]

Come on, it's one bad season we're talking about. Lots of pitchers have bad seasons and rebound. I could cite lots of examples but it would bore the crap out of everyone.

 

Hopefully it's only one bad season if he stays.

[User Name]

You usually cherry pick and split numbers in order to justify the unjustifiable. Sorry, it's the way you are. Is still the pitching there? IDK. He has shown a decline, that is a fact. If you do not want to see that, is up to you. You split his numbers in order to prove that his pitching still there, hopefully still there... In the end...It's your opinion but nobody knows. Sorry but If he keeps posting high ERAs (hopefully no, if he stays), your splits will not have sense. He will suck, plain and simple.

 

I'm not concerned about Lester's future, If he stays fine, If he walks fine... I'm concern because our FO office has not done nothing in order to fix this team. Almost forget, we have to be patience, like last off-season.

 

Cherry pick what? Justify what? You need to learn to comprehend what you read. Trying to find an explanation as to why he sucked is not the same as trying to justify that he didn't suck. Again, i don't think you know what "cherry picking" means applied to this instance.

 

I haven't even emitted a specific opinion on the subject. I theorized that it could be a mental problem, but where did i say i knew it was or how to fix it? Read my posts for what they are and not for what you think they are.

[SoxSport]

If they get Swisher and/or Ross or Hamilton, can't see them trading Lester for Myers.

[a700hitter]

Come on, it's one bad season we're talking about. Lots of pitchers have bad seasons and rebound. I could cite lots of examples but it would bore the crap out of everyone.

He has been declining for two seasons. People forget that after 2011, Lester was talking about having a rebound season in 2012.

[jung]

I also seriously doubt Lester is on the block for one simple reason. Pitching is pretty costly to acquire at this point and the Sox already don't have enough. So how can the Sox justify to themselves giving up even more pitching when they have so far not even filled the holes they have?

 

It really does not matter if Lester is a 1 or not a 1 or a 3 or whatever. He has a decent track record. Yes he has been declining but he is not physically screwed up...at least as far as we know. He has the guy that he prospered with most as pitching coach coming back as manager. Every guy out there that the Sox can overpay for has some issue or another which makes them no better a bet than Lester and in many cases worse AND more costly. So what are we talking about here? Lets move Lester so we can bring in more Lesters or worse?

 

I don't even know how much faith I have in their ability to judge pitching. The Bailey move was a disaster, not because Riddick was such a gem of an everyday player but because Bailey represented nothing. Bailey was never going to be a solid closer for a contending team and if the Red Sox are not contending or working toward contending what are they doing? So why was Bailey ever going to be a better move than what 75% of MLB teams do to come up with a closer if in a pinch? Bailey will likely end up being yet another player that has his sorry ass moved for next to nothing and we have yet another example of the Sox losing both the player that they gave up, Riddick, and the player that they got, Bailey, and have nothing to show for it.

 

Lester might not get you the 220 innings that you would expect from a 1 but he will likely be good for at least 180+ innings. You have to hand one thing to the guy....he has been the most consistent innings eater the Sox have had even in his more troubling seasons. Scary that he has been the best the Sox have had but it is what it is.

[iortiz]

Cherry pick what? Justify what? You need to learn to comprehend what you read. Trying to find an explanation as to why he sucked is not the same as trying to justify that he didn't suck. Again, i don't think you know what "cherry picking" means applied to this instance.

 

I haven't even emitted a specific opinion on the subject. I theorized that it could be a mental problem, but where did i say i knew it was or how to fix it? Read my posts for what they are and not for what you think they are.

 

Yes. Cherry pick. You need to think twice what you want write if you feel pointed.

[User Name]

Yes. Cherry pick. You need to think twice what you want write if you feel pointed.

 

Actually i don't, because i focus on comprehending both what i read and what i write. I suggest you try the same lest you resort to semi-illegible cop-outs like this one.

[iortiz]

Actually i don't, because i focus on comprehending both what i read and what i write. I suggest you try the same lest you resort to semi-illegible cop-outs like this one.

 

Zero cop-outs, it is true, straight up... do not cherry pick.

[User Name]

What in the world are you talking about? You're making no goddamn sense. Again, do you know what cherry picking means?