Nick Swisher, A MUST for the Red Sox

[Orange Juiced]

Agreed. I think that the napoli deal goes thru tho. Probably done by the weekend

But instead of swish at 1B id rather see Adam LaRoche signed along with Swish to play LF and then slpit time at 1B but im not a big fan of Swisher not in the outfield the bulk of the time

 

But the Nationals are making a hard puch for LaRoche so boston has to make a decision on what to do a 1B.

 

If LaRoche signs with Washington, then they'll almost certainly look to trade Mike Morse. Morse will be 31 in March, and here are the relevant numbers:

 

- Last 3 seasons: .296/.345/.516/.861, 132 ops+, 64 hr in 1194 ab

- 2013 salary: $6.75 million, free agent in 2014

 

The guy isn't Mike Stanton or Albert Pujols, but he's a very nice RHH power bat. The Sox would have to give up something of value to get him, maybe a top-15 prospect, but certainly not someone like Bogaerts or anything.

 

Morse to 1b, Napoli as the starting C, but who plays 1b or DH against tough lefties, Ortiz as the primary DH.... lineup looks like this:

 

CF Ellsbury

2b Pedroia

DH Ortiz

1b Morse

C Napoli

3b Middlebrooks

LF Gomes/Kalish

RF Victorino

SS Iglesias

 

That's a lot of thunder in that lineup. Ellsbury is capable of 20+, as is Pedroia. Ortiz can hit 30. Morse can hit 35. Napoli can hit 30. Middlebrooks is capable of 25-30. The Gomes/Kalish platoon probably could hit 20-25.

[SoxSport]

They won't sign Swisher--same reason as Hamilton. He can get more than 3 years elsewhere, and they won't give him more than 3 years. Life is simple.

[jacksonianmarch]

Swisher is a luxury for them. I am still surprised the sox didnt sign Sanchez. The years are prohibitive, but $15.5 mil a yr for a pitcher of his caliber at his age isnt bad and he would give the sox a second innings eater

[User Name]

Define "pitcher of his caliber". I just don't see the awesomeness in Sanchez.

[jacksonianmarch]

Young pitcher capable of giving you innings with solid effectiveness. He's 4 yrs removed from his surgery and has averaged 195.2IP the last 3 yrs with a mid 3ERA and 1.28 or so WHIP. He is the kind og guy you throw in your rotation and not worry about.

[User Name]

I don't agree with that. His peripherals have been all over the place the past couple of years, and even though he had a good run with the Tigers, he's still an NL pitcher coming to the AL which brings with it a lot of question marks.

[jacksonianmarch]

His peripherals have been pretty steadily going in the right direction. He's not a big strikeout pitcher, regardless of what his 2011 season suggests. But the walk rate has dropped steadily as has his WHIP. He's improving rather than reverting

[User Name]

His peripherals have been pretty steadily going in the right direction. He's not a big strikeout pitcher, regardless of what his 2011 season suggests. But the walk rate has dropped steadily as has his WHIP. He's improving rather than reverting

 

That's the point. He's had seasons with K rates near/over 9, and the last two years, his WHIP settled around the 1.26 mark, but is that really 15 mill production? And again, factor in the fact that he's moving to the AL. I'd be weary.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yes, a 1.26WHIP pitcher is now a $15+ mil a yr pitcher. And he moved to Detroit for half a season, thrived and pitched very well in the playoffs. He's the #2 they need

[iortiz]

Nick Swisher has never seen the Red Sox "as a likely landing spot," reports Pete Abraham of the Boston Globe (Twitter link). Boston is one of several teams -- including the Phillies, Orioles, Guardians, Rangers and Mariners -- linked to the free agent slugger this winter.

 

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#myId4W0s69ze7ZUL.99

[User Name]

Yes, a 1.26WHIP pitcher is now a $15+ mil a yr pitcher. And he moved to Detroit for half a season, thrived and pitched very well in the playoffs. He's the #2 they need

 

That's an interesting way to look at it. But i'd say those aren't the innings you pay 15 mill for. That's just me.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Swisher is a bad defender. He would get smoked in RF but could do ok in LF.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7268593&c_id=mlb

[Lord Snow]

Swisher is a bad defender. He would get smoked in RF but could do ok in LF.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7268593&c_id=mlb

 

One play doesn't define a player defensively.

 

Swisher is an average defender, definitely not a negative in the field.

 

The Sox won't sign him. I think they've sent a pretty clear message this off-season. They're going to sign mediocre/fringe-starters in the hopes of not becoming a joke, but they have no plans to be a perennial playoff contender for another 2-4 years.

[Behindenemylines]

Swisher's value went up with Hamilton signing with the Angels. Teams looking for RF with some pop will target Swisher. He is looking for more then three years, and I hope that means the Sox stay clear. I rather bring Ross back then Swisher. Sox do probably need a OF that can play 1B, but Swisher isn't that guy.

[SoxSport]

Swisher is a luxury for them. I am still surprised the sox didnt sign Sanchez. The years are prohibitive, but $15.5 mil a yr for a pitcher of his caliber at his age isnt bad and he would give the sox a second innings eater

 

It's about the years. They are rigid about no more than 3 years. If everybody had known that first, it would have been easy to predict what they would do. Besides, Sanchez isn't that great. A middling pitcher. Better than Dempster, but not worth a Beckett size contract.

[SoxSport]

Swisher's value went up with Hamilton signing with the Angels. Teams looking for RF with some pop will target Swisher. He is looking for more then three years, and I hope that means the Sox stay clear. I rather bring Ross back then Swisher. Sox do probably need a OF that can play 1B, but Swisher isn't that guy.

 

They have other options--Kalish, Sands, Brentz...Gomez and Sands at 1B. You have to leave room for the kids to get a chance. That's one of their big problems the last few years. Spending too much on FAs and tying up roster spots.

 

Look at TB. They just got this kid Myers and are starting him in RF. The kid has had one good partial season in AAA. That's it. With the Red Sox, he stays in AAA. And TB is plugging two kids in the rotation to replace Shields and Davis. The Sox would prefer to go out and get an aging pitcher like Dempster, and keep their prospects in AAA. And they now have a few good ones. That's why TB has good young players. They play them. Bring the kids up through the bullpen and to the rotation if they look good. They are smart not buying expensive FAs to "eat innings.":rolleyes:

 

You wonder why the Red Sox are up to $150 million in spending right now? Well, there's the major reason.

[seabeachfred]

They have other options--Kalish, Sands, Brentz...Gomez and Sands at 1B. You have to leave room for the kids to get a chance. That's one of their big problems the last few years. Spending too much on FAs and tying up roster spots.

 

Look at TB. They just got this kid Myers and are starting him in RF. The kid has had one good partial season in AAA. That's it. With the Red Sox, he stays in AAA. And TB is plugging two kids in the rotation to replace Shields and Davis. The Sox would prefer to go out and get an aging pitcher like Dempster, and keep their prospects in AAA. And they now have a few good ones. That's why TB has good young players. They play them. Bring the kids up through the bullpen and to the rotation if they look good. They are smart not buying expensive FAs to "eat innings.":rolleyes:

 

You wonder why the Red Sox are up to $150 million in spending right now? Well, there's the major reason.

 

Just look at Kevin Youkilis!!!!! He didn't make it as a regular with the Red Sox until he was 27 years old in 2006. That's plain disgusting!!!!!!! Good young players should get into the lineup or rotations by the time they are 22-24 and given a chance to develop and prosper. There is no way now the Red Sox trade Boegarts, Brentz, Bradley, Barnes or even Sands. Give them a chance to show what they can do and let's hope some young pitcher shines in ST as it happens with other teams. I don't want to see us trade for mediocre pitchers or players anymore and keep young kids down "for more god damn seasoning". You know, I could accept 2013 as a rebuilding year if the Red Sox were sincere and determined to make do with what they have, but from everything we know about Lucchino he likes to make splashes and that was his MO in Baltimore and San Diego and has been his MO here.

 

Start playing the kids as soon as possible and if that means by the middle of next season, fine!!!!!! Do it!!!!!!!

[SoxSport]

Just look at Kevin Youkilis!!!!! He didn't make it as a regular with the Red Sox until he was 27 years old in 2006. That's plain disgusting!!!!!!! Good young players should get into the lineup or rotations by the time they are 22-24 and given a chance to develop and prosper. There is no way now the Red Sox trade Boegarts, Brentz, Bradley, Barnes or even Sands. Give them a chance to show what they can do and let's hope some young pitcher shines in ST as it happens with other teams. I don't want to see us trade for mediocre pitchers or players anymore and keep young kids down "for more god damn seasoning". You know, I could accept 2013 as a rebuilding year if the Red Sox were sincere and determined to make do with what they have, but from everything we know about Lucchino he likes to make splashes and that was his MO in Baltimore and San Diego and has been his MO here.

 

Start playing the kids as soon as possible and if that means by the middle of next season, fine!!!!!! Do it!!!!!!!

 

Too bad LL didn't make a splash this time. He could have easily with Hamilton, as a lot of people expected, but they were never serious about him. I think there's a "for sale" sign on the team. The short contracts are a setup. Not short enough for youth emphasis, but long enough for a sale.

[onlybereaved]

If the Red Sox didn't have so many different holes to fill I could see them 'making a splash' with Hamilton. Otherwise, it just wouldn't have made sense. We already had a similar contract in Crawford and it didn't do anything to improve the team.

[NZSox]

Unfortunately I don't see us signing Swisher. Like others have said, he can get more years elsewhere.

[onlybereaved]

Yeah, everyone is on the same page/agreement there...I am just saying that if the Napoli deal fell through, I would like to think that we would match/beat anyone's offer on Nick

[NZSox]

Yeah, everyone is on the same page/agreement there...I am just saying that if the Napoli deal fell through, I would like to think that we would match/beat anyone's offer on Nick

 

Agree with that mate.

 

Hope it doesn't come to that though, I think Napoli has a lot to offer us in terms of Fenway power, positional flexibility and personality.

[Lord Snow]

If the Red Sox didn't have so many different holes to fill I could see them 'making a splash' with Hamilton. Otherwise, it just wouldn't have made sense. We already had a similar contract in Crawford and it didn't do anything to improve the team.

 

The Carl Crawford contract is a really bad comparison, because Crawford was incapable of being worth the contract that Red Sox signed him to. His ceiling just doesn't go that high.

 

Hamilton's on the other hand does reach $25M. Nobody is going to complain about Hamilton's contract if he hits .275+, 30+ homers with 100+ RBI and a .900+ OPS next season which is all well within his reach considering they're his career averages. And if he comes out an hits 40+ homers everyone will absolutely love the deal and be praising the Angels for making such a good signing.

[Lord Snow]

The Sox won't sign Swisher for the same reasons they stayed away from Hamilton, Greinke, and Sanchez.

 

They're not looking to compete next season or the year after. Cherington is trying to develop players in the farm system.

 

He doesn't want to lose that 2nd round compensation pick by signing Swisher. He is going to turn that 2nd round pick into an All-Star outfielder, apparently.

 

In all seriousness it looks like they're building a team that isn't going to be a contender in the short term, holding onto prospects, and hoping they become star players and that Sox will have an elite young group of players... I don't see it happening, but who knows.

[jung]

The dynamic the Sox are trying to change is the use of FA to build the team as opposed to using them to fill the odd hole now and again. The only way to change that vicious cycle is to lay off signing multiple big FA contracts which also keep the kids down on the farm languishing.

 

Once they get the pump primed again, they should be able to keep a flow of good young players coming up to Boston relying on FA to fill in instead of making FA the meat and potatoes of what has in recent years not even gelled into a team.

 

My issue with what they have been doing is that I really think they had as close to an opportunity as they were going to get to having their cake and eating it too but really have not played it that way. Long term I agree with what they appear to be doing. I think it could work out a bit better for them than it appears it is going to work out in the short term.

[rjortiz]

They have other options--Kalish, Sands, Brentz...Gomez and Sands at 1B. You have to leave room for the kids to get a chance. That's one of their big problems the last few years. Spending too much on FAs and tying up roster spots.

 

Look at TB. They just got this kid Myers and are starting him in RF. The kid has had one good partial season in AAA. That's it. With the Red Sox, he stays in AAA. And TB is plugging two kids in the rotation to replace Shields and Davis. The Sox would prefer to go out and get an aging pitcher like Dempster, and keep their prospects in AAA. And they now have a few good ones. That's why TB has good young players. They play them. Bring the kids up through the bullpen and to the rotation if they look good. They are smart not buying expensive FAs to "eat innings.":rolleyes:

 

You wonder why the Red Sox are up to $150 million in spending right now? Well, there's the major reason.

 

The only difference is that Myers is a star prospect and Kalish, Sands, Brentz, and Gomez are all fringe ones. Other than that, the two situations are completely alike.

[mvp 78]

Brentz is a fringe prospect?

[example1]

Brentz is a fringe prospect?

 

I wouldn't say he's a fringe prospect, but he's not a guaranteed star in the making either. His upside might be a starting OF on decent club when he's up and adjusted to MLB. His power potential is really high, but his other offensive tools might need some help.

[BSN07]

Brentz is like Burnitz 2.0, which really isn't bad. He wasn't a super star or perennial AS, but he was a decent OF with a couple big years.

[rjortiz]

Brentz is a fringe prospect?

 

Maybe that's harsh, but the Rays options to fill their holes are much better than the Red Sox.