Jose Iglesias

[Bellhorn04]

Iggy 1 for 3 and an rbi last night playing 3B for Detroit.

 

Iggy replaces Miggy.

 

Yes, and he extended his streak of games without an extra-base hit to 21.

[Bellhorn04]

Detroit playing Iggy at 3B? I don't even know what to say about that.

 

He was going to play second but Cabrera couldn't go.

[SCM33]

You didn't call s***. You were wrong. Iggy being traded doesn't win the argument for you.

 

 

Oh, I see you still think he is a big league starter......and yes it does, he was not the answer at SS, so he was traded.....because there were better internal and current options.

[SCM33]

@PeteAbe: Since 2004, Iglesias is the 9th shortstop the #RedSox have traded (Ciriaco, Aviles, Punto, Scutaro, Lowrie, Lugo, Renteria, Garciaparra).

Is anyone really lamenting the loss of any of these guys aside from Lowrie?

 

No, they have all been stop gaps or unproductive (or injured).

[SCM33]

OCab was the only suitable replacement but he wore out his welcome in the clubhouse. Too bad.

 

Rent-a-wreck was horrible here. Lugo was Theo's man crush. Scutaro can't play SS anymore.

 

Alex Gonzalez has always been thought of in high regards, but the FO thought he'd never hit. He's the guy they should have kept in retrospect.

 

 

Gonzalez was Iglesias, X2......he was at least serviceable with the bat and had a little pop.

 

(sorry for the triple post)

[SoxSport]

School is still out on Iggy. Remember, Dombrowski is no fool.

[Lord Snow]

Oh, I see you still think he is a big league starter......and yes it does, he was not the answer at SS, so he was traded.....because there were better internal and current options.

 

He was "not the answer at SS" because the Red Sox currently have the best shortstop prospect in baseball at AAA in Xander Bogaerts. They have Dustin Pedroia at 2B and just signed him to a long extension, and Will Middlebrooks is up-and-coming at 3B. Even struggling with his bat Middlebrooks has more offensive potential than Iglesias and the defense, at 3B, is a wash since Middlebrooks is a good defender.

 

The Sox needed to add an SP due to the Buchholz muscle cramp that is requiring a 4 month DL stint, so they dealt from a position of depth to fill a position of weakness. Iglesias is a good player and showed flashes of his potential with the Sox.

[mvp 78]

Oh, I see you still think he is a big league starter......and yes it does, he was not the answer at SS, so he was traded.....because there were better internal and current options.

 

Nope, that wasn't my point at all.

 

Your argument was "Iglesias sucks, he'll never be a productive major leaguer. Therefore, he won't be the Sox SS."

 

In reality, he was so productive that they were able to spin him for Jake Peavy.

 

Whether his career takes off in Detroit, I couldn't care less.

[mvp 78]

No, they have all been stop gaps or unproductive (or injured).

 

With Xander in the pipeline, the turnstile of this position should finally stop turning (God willing).

[Bellhorn04]

Leyland pinch-hit for Iggy last night in the 8th. In a tie game, with nobody on base, with .248 hitter Andy Dirks.

 

Ouch...says a lot about how Leyland sees Iggy's value.

[sk7326]

Iggy showed his potential here. Almost all of his special value is with his glove - he had to hit just acceptably enough to play him. When half of his balls in play were finding holes, that made sense. If he hit .118 it doesn't. But if he can be a solid .260 sort of hitter - and with him that .260 does not come with any special plate discipline or extra base ability - that is good enough to justify having his glove out there.

 

The theory on Boegarts is the exact opposite. Can he justify the glove enough to stay at SS - will his body allow this to happen? It's the difference between him being an elite prospect and a very good one.

[Dojji]

Iggy showed his potential here. Almost all of his special value is with his glove - he had to hit just acceptably enough to play him. When half of his balls in play were finding holes, that made sense. If he hit .118 it doesn't. But if he can be a solid .260 sort of hitter - and with him that .260 does not come with any special plate discipline or extra base ability - that is good enough to justify having his glove out there.

 

The theory on Boegarts is the exact opposite. Can he justify the glove enough to stay at SS - will his body allow this to happen? It's the difference between him being an elite prospect and a very good one.

 

Disagree. It's the difference between him being an elite 3B prospect or a generational SS prospect.

 

He has the potential to be right up there with Miggy Cabrera. But if he can stick at short, he has the potential to be Nomar in his prime, and that doesn't happen to anyone very often.

[SoxSport]

The kid is only 23?. Still young and developing. His upside hasn't been established. It's good for him they traded him. He'll get to play SS in Detroit, and he won't have a lot of media and others throwing out cynical BS about his hitting. He's playing about as well in Detroit so far as you'd expect a good field/weak hit SS to play. That's probably enough in Detroit. If he can stay around .300, they'll have lightening in a bottle.

[jad]

MVP: You left out Cabrera, who replaced Nomar and led to a WS. If that hadn't magically worked out, maybe they would have stayed with him a few years rather than going with Renteria, then the crown jewell of the lot--Lugo.

[mvp 78]

I mentionned him in post 473. He was great in 04, but really wore out his welcome somehow. He's switched unis almost every year simce then. He must have some personality issues.

[SoxFanForsyth]

The kid is only 23?. Still young and developing. His upside hasn't been established. It's good for him they traded him. He'll get to play SS in Detroit, and he won't have a lot of media and others throwing out cynical BS about his hitting. He's playing about as well in Detroit so far as you'd expect a good field/weak hit SS to play. That's probably enough in Detroit. If he can stay around .300, they'll have lightening in a bottle.

 

Pointing out his 22+ infield hits as well as his .480+ BABIP is not cynical.

[sk7326]

The kid is only 23?. Still young and developing. His upside hasn't been established. It's good for him they traded him. He'll get to play SS in Detroit, and he won't have a lot of media and others throwing out cynical BS about his hitting. He's playing about as well in Detroit so far as you'd expect a good field/weak hit SS to play. That's probably enough in Detroit. If he can stay around .300, they'll have lightening in a bottle.

 

His upside is not established theoretically ... but going from his performance at every level of baseball he has tried. He has been a poor hitter from his time in the farm to now. It's ok to project that going forward with improvement - .260 at the bigs would be an improvement over what he has shown, couple months of BABIP good fortune aside.

[SoxSport]

Pointing out his 22+ infield hits as well as his .480+ BABIP is not cynical.

 

Yeah it is. That's the point. Nobody else in baseball has gotten that kind of BS treatment. In other locales, speed on the bases is a quality. His offensive analysis in Boston was offensive.

[mvp 78]

Yeah it is. That's the point. Nobody else in baseball has gotten that kind of BS treatment. In other locales, speed on the bases is a quality. His offensive analysis in Boston was offensive.

 

Huh? His offensive analysis?

 

He is a slap hitter on a hot streak. In a week he'll be under .300.

[Dojji]

Pretty much. This kid is not Ichiro, nor any significant portion thereof. I respected what he did for us and am not particularly glad he's gone but expecting him to sustain this level of offense is not supported by history.

[lospunchados]

I think most Redsox fans thought if he could be a .260-.270 hitter he would have great value on a major league line up with how excellent his glove is. His problem is that the redsox have someone they believe can be at least a league average shortstop (defensively) and way above position average at the plate(hitting and discipline). They also have other prospects they like (Cecchini and maybe Middlebrooks) for third. That left Jose in a tough spot, and though he performed well, he had high enough value for the redsox to package with low level prospects to get another starter that was more needed than a ss this year.

 

If you really wanted to keep Iglesias you had to believe that the sox had enough pitching to win this year as is because they would not have traded Bogaerts for peavy, or lee.

 

Also most of this can Bogaerts stay at short is based off only a few scouts opinions. Many other scouts believe he can stay for a good portion or the majority of his career .

[Dojji]

I see Rico Petrocelli as a reasonable career arc analogue, at least defensively. Starts at shortstop, sticks for several years, and then moves to the corners as he slows down in his late 20's early 30's.

[sk7326]

Yeah it is. That's the point. Nobody else in baseball has gotten that kind of BS treatment. In other locales, speed on the bases is a quality. His offensive analysis in Boston was offensive.

 

Speed is a quality - but 22 infield hits requires luck and speed, hitting the ball into some random dead spot on the infield. His .480 BABIP, that's just basic math. The idea that half of the balls he hit found holes is something which was not going to last - it hardly lasts for anybody. I had an open mind that there was a scouting related result here - that he got better at the plate. But really watching him it was hard to say that. He was not squaring up balls appreciably better. And there is ZERO evidence in his career record that he could be anything but a "well at least he's not killing you" hitter. He's a wizard with the glove and on a team like Detroit (or Boston) he could just soak up ground balls while being a glorified pitcher at the plate. But there is not a .300 hitter there. There is not a .280 hitter there, and there is certainly not a .700 OPS guy there. If Detroit got his defense and a .260/.300/.350 slash line they'd be doing backflips.

[sk7326]

The question Boegarts staying at short I think is really related to his size (6'3" 174 lbs) and his age (20). That is a frame that can still fill out and get really powerful. Can a 6'3", 190 lb guy be able to stick at SS to a reasonable degree? The industry consensus has shifted last couple of years from "no way" to somewhere between "maybe" and "probably". But for a guy with his size and his potential to get bigger, it's a very reasonable question to ask.

[Behindenemylines]

Iggy no longer was the Sox SS of the future as Bogaerts kept proving himself at every level he played at. I think if he stays healthy he will be on par with Nomar.