Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[a700hitter]

I actually think they did a fair bit to strengthen their rotation. However, they didn't add to it on top, which is going f frustrate fans like a700 who don't get baseball, expect the GM to come up with a way to make a team a sure thing, and set themselves up for frustration on top of frustration when that doesn't happen.

Yeah, I don't get baseball. It wasn't my plan to build the top of the rotation, because those guys are rarely available. So, tell me smarty pants what we have done this off season to strengthen the rotation other than get Dempster. I have my doubts about his prospects for success. Other than that, what did we do? Put Lackey on weight watchers?

[a700hitter]

I actually think they did a fair bit to strengthen their rotation. However, they didn't add to it on top, which is going f frustrate fans like a700 who don't get baseball, expect the GM to come up with a way to make a team a sure thing, and set themselves up for frustration on top of frustration when that doesn't happen.

I was hoping for moves that would make this a respectable team, possibly competitive for a second wild card, but at the least, I was hoping for some meaingful games at the beginning of September. I was under no delusion that this team would return to prominence in 2013. However, in light of their off season moves, I think respectability will be a stretch. I have not set my self ip for frustration. Those people who think this will be a competitive team are setting themselves up for disappointment.

[Bellhorn04]

This is a 79-84 win team most likely. If everything breaks right, maybe 88 wins. If there are one or two injuries to the starting pitching, it will all unravel again like last year. This team may sniff the second wild card, but it will be an uninteresting team that will have trouble staying over .500.

 

Seems like a fair assessment at this point. Though I actually think it might be an interesting team in some respects. Even if not, the discussions here will always be interesting.

[jung]

So many teams have made improvements this season that I think the Sox are just not going to find many patsy's to beat up on this year. The Sox are going to have tough sledding in my opinion because the league is just so much better if nothing else.

 

I think it is entirely possible for the division winner to be the only team to make it out of the AL East this year. There have been years when there was an off chance of that happening. This year it may even be likely. For years we have grown used to just penciling in two teams from the AL East into the post season. Can't do that any longer even with two WC teams.

[Bellhorn04]

So many teams have made improvements this season that I think the Sox are just not going to find many patsy's to beat up on this year. The Sox are going to have tough sledding in my opinion because the league is just so much better if nothing else.

 

Somebody has to get worse though, right? I think you could make a case that the Yankees and Rays got worse, and that the Orioles did nothing so their record should be worse this year, considering all the one-run wins last year.

[Dojji]

Teams made moves. We call them "improvements" because people are smallminded like that and anyway there's no way to tell who really improved until after the fact, which is boring.

[a700hitter]

Well certainly your bolded statement is true. They cannot survive injuries to Lester or Buchholz.

Injuries to any 2 of our pitchers will sink this ship. It doesn't have to be Lester or Buchholz. We don't have depth that can take the ball every 5th day for 10-15 starts.

 

The rest of your post is a hopeful statement. Spring is the time for hope, but there are no trends by any of these pitchers which would lead someone to be encouraged, so I can't get to the point to conclude that our pitching is significantly better. I don't buy into the "addition by subtraction" theory. We read a lot of that theory after 2011 when we replaced Lackey and Wakefield who had been horrible in 2011. The addition by subtraction theory didn't work out well in 2012, and I suspect that it will not do much better in 2013.

 

We have added Ryan Dempster to one of the worst staffs in all of baseball since September 1, 2011. That's not going to cut it. The other addition is Lackey who only one year ago people argued that his absence would benefit us in 2012. He was part of the addition by subtraction argument for 2012. Now, people are trying to sell me on Lackey being helpful in 2013. I'm not buying.

[a700hitter]

Teams made moves. We call them "improvements" because people are smallminded like that and anyway there's no way to tell who really improved until after the fact, which is boring.

Let me get this straight. Adding Josh Johnson, Mark Buerhle and RA Dickey to Brandon Moorow is only an improvement for the small-minded, but the addition of Ryan Dempster as you put it "did a fair bit to strengthen our rotation." You've got to be kidding.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Injuries to any 2 of our pitchers will sink this ship. It doesn't have to be Lester or Buchholz. We don't have depth that can take the ball every 5th day for 10-15 starts.

 

The rest of your post is a hopeful statement. Spring is the time for hope, but there are no trends by any of these pitchers which would lead someone to be encouraged, so I can't get to the point to conclude that our pitching is significantly better. I don't buy into the "addition by subtraction" theory. We read a lot of that theory after 2011 when we replaced Lackey and Wakefield who had been horrible in 2011. The addition by subtraction theory didn't work out well in 2012, and I suspect that it will not do much better in 2013.

 

We have added Ryan Dempster to one of the worst staffs in all of baseball since September 1, 2011. That's not going to cut it. The other addition is Lackey who only one year ago people argued that his absence would benefit us in 2012. He was part of the addition by subtraction argument for 2012. Now, people are trying to sell me on Lackey being helpful in 2013. I'm not buying.

 

What???

 

Morales took the ball for 10 starts and posted a 4.12 ERA in those starts last year. If anything, he's good for more starts than that.

 

De La Rosa took the ball for 10 starts in 2011 and posted a 3.71 ERA, that was 2 years ago and he will certainly be capable of filling in for 10-15 starts this year.

 

And this doesn't even mention Aceves, Webster, Wright, all of who can give at least league average performance. To say our 3-5 starters are irreplaceable is ridiculous.

[Dojji]

If you focus entirely on the best moves made by 29 other teams, and compare that one for one with every move made by the Red Sox, it's going to be a rare offseason indeed where our efforts stack up to that kind of poorly thought out analysis.

[Dojji]

What???

 

Morales took the ball for 10 starts and posted a 4.12 ERA in those starts last year. If anything, he's good for more starts than that.

 

De La Rosa took the ball for 10 starts in 2011 and posted a 3.71 ERA, that was 2 years ago and he will certainly be capable of filling in for 10-15 starts this year.

 

And this doesn't even mention Aceves, Webster, Wright, all of who can give at least league average performance. To say our 3-5 starters are irreplaceable is ridiculous.

 

a700 does ridiculous. He does it well. His greatest genius is in finding ways to frame ridiculous statements so that they're rhetorically difficult to counter without playing into his hands and permitting him to label you. It's a media trick -- one of the oldest in the book. I dunno if a700 ever worked for a tabloid, but he probably should. It's sleazy, it's dishonest, I've seen it before and I hate it every time.

[a700hitter]

What???

 

Morales took the ball for 10 starts and posted a 4.12 ERA in those starts last year. If anything, he's good for more starts than that.

 

De La Rosa took the ball for 10 starts in 2011 and posted a 3.71 ERA, that was 2 years ago and he will certainly be capable of filling in for 10-15 starts this year.

 

And this doesn't even mention Aceves, Webster, Wright, all of who can give at least league average performance. To say our 3-5 starters are irreplaceable is ridiculous.

We continue to disagree about the quality of our depth. You like it. I am underwhelmed by it. I think 2 injuries to any of our starters would devastate the 2013 team. Maybe De La Rosa has a break out year, but no one is predicting that.

[SoxFanForsyth]

We continue to disagree about the quality of our depth. You like it. I am underwhelmed by it. I think 2 injuries to any of our starters would devastate the 2013 team. Maybe De La Rosa has a break out year, but no one is predicting that.

 

What about Aceves? He's not SP Depth?

[jung]

This year I think the dif between our at least temporarily depleted farm system and other farm systems are going to turn out to be be telling. Not sure but the Rays may not skip a beat.

 

Much of the change/improvement...call it what you want (hopefully without being insulting, something so many seem to find impossible here, preferring instead to be a jackass). There will be some new faces around the league this year, some that have crossed over from the other league and some having come up through their systems. All by way of saying...few are going to get worse in my opinion.

 

Minnesota may be worse by virtue of everybody else getting better around them. Rangers may be worse but still better than most including us. Couple teams look like they are about the same as last year. Orioles may actually be better this year than last but can't possibly be as effective in one run games two years running. It will boil down to the starting pitching for the Yanks....much the same story for them as us. if their guys perform to expectation they will likely compete. A number of our guys will have to excel for us to compete I think. That could turn out to be a pretty big difference.

[Dojji]

We continue to disagree about the quality of our depth. You like it. I am underwhelmed by it. I think 2 injuries to any of our starters would devastate the 2013 team. Maybe De La Rosa has a break out year, but no one is predicting that.

 

Depthwise we stand up to any team in this league on paper. How it falls out will be rather heavily dependent on de la Rosa's ability to contribute in the second half. Any reversals there combined with multiple SP injuries could expose us somewhat. On the whole we don't have much to complain of.

 

Of course we can't exactly call up a guy who's an immediate #3 starter, we got kinda lucky there with Gabbard in 07 when Schilling went down and Lester was still recovering, and we have been rather unlucky since on the whole. But that's not what they depth guys are there to do. They're there to give you a chance to win enough games when they pitch that by the time your mainline guys are healthy, you haven't lost too much ground. No team is going to be carried by its depth.

 

(I happen to think Gabbard was the unsung hero of 2007. If he hadn't stepped up and become a nice little #4 starter for us when Schill went down, and had instead been a bogstandard replacement starter, there's NWIH we win the division that year, and that changes the playoff picture significantly. He was on track to have the best individual performance by a Boston rookie starter that year with that CGSO, despite the rather stiff competition, up until Buchholz' no-no. What a pity he got hurt the next year with Texas. If he had stayed healthy he could have had a nice career for himself)

[jacksonianmarch]

What???

 

Morales took the ball for 10 starts and posted a 4.12 ERA in those starts last year. If anything, he's good for more starts than that.

 

De La Rosa took the ball for 10 starts in 2011 and posted a 3.71 ERA, that was 2 years ago and he will certainly be capable of filling in for 10-15 starts this year.

 

And this doesn't even mention Aceves, Webster, Wright, all of who can give at least league average performance. To say our 3-5 starters are irreplaceable is ridiculous.

 

STOP DRINKING THE KOOL-AID! To say that De la Rosa, Webster, Wright, Aceves, etc are guys you can rely on for league average performance is f***ing insane. You have no idea what to expect from them, be honest. Morales is a guy you actually have a track record on, so he might be able to give you some useful innings, but his history shows that relying on him in the rotation is a problem.

[a700hitter]

a700 does ridiculous. He does it well. His greatest genius is in finding ways to frame ridiculous statements so that they're rhetorically difficult to counter without playing into his hands and permitting him to label you. It's a media trick -- one of the oldest in the book. I dunno if a700 ever worked for a tabloid, but he probably should. It's sleazy, it's dishonest, I've seen it before and I hate it every time.

So, I don't get baseball. You threw around the term "small minded" in your last post. Now you call me ridiculous, sleazy and dishonest. Seriously, what a jackass. First of all, you misrepresented what I wanted and expected the FO to do this off season, because you are intellectually too lazy to look back to see what I recommended from the beginning of the season. ^ This s*** you are spewing is overboard. Go take your meds or eat something to stabilize your blood sugar. Just go away with this jackass nonsense.:thumbdown

[a700hitter]

What about Aceves? He's not SP Depth?

I think he can be an ocassional spot starter, but I don't think he is a great option if we have to hand him the ball 15 times. We can differ, but that's my opinion. He's never performed well outside of the role as swingman.

[Dojji]

So, I don't get baseball. You threw around the term "small minded" in your last post. Now you call me ridiculous, sleazy and dishonest. Seriously, what a jackass. First of all, you misrepresented what I wanted and expected the FO to do this off season, because you are intellectually too lazy to look back to see what I recommended from the beginning of the season. ^ This s*** you are spewing is overboard. Go take your meds or eat something to stabilize your blood sugar. Just go away with this jackass nonsense.:thumbdown

 

If the shoe fits, a700. You're not above a bit of misrepresentation yourself. This thread is exhibit A. So how about you lose the marytr act?

[a700hitter]

If the shoe fits, a700. You're not above a bit of misrepresentation yourself. This thread is exhibit A. So how about you lose the marytr act?

Just go back and look at the anger you spewed. To say it was hate-filled would not be an exaggeration, because you use the word hate in the post where you called me ridiculous, sleazy and dishonest. Martyr act? I am laughing at you, because you are obviously emotionally stunted, immature and unstable. However, if you can't keep it civil you should take a break until you can discuss things in a civil manner since we are just discussing sports. Your crap mucks up the thread, and it displays for everyone that you are a total loser. Save yourself the further embarrassment.

[Dojji]

It always amuses me when someone whines about the level of vitriol in a thread when they've been a contributing factor all along.

 

This is also part of the thing a700 does.

 

Perhaps this isn't the best venue for all this, but when something is administering a subtle poison, even the best possible time to apply the tourniquet is never really a good time.

 

I am sick and tired of you sligning passive-agressive barbs and then trying to hind behind plausible deniability. It ends, a700, one way or the other.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Summary of talksox lately

 

Someone is wrong, I must let them know!

 

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcqq2gHbEH1qlbkes.gif

[Bellhorn04]

What about Aceves? He's not SP Depth?

 

Maybe, maybe not. He hasn't started a game since June 21, 2011.

[a700hitter]

It always amuses me when someone whines about the level of vitriol in a thread when they've been a contributing factor all along.

 

This is also part of the thing a700 does.

 

Perhaps this isn't the best venue for all this, but when something is administering a subtle poison, even the best possible time to apply the tourniquet is never really a good time.

 

I am sick and tired of you sligning passive-agressive barbs and then trying to hind behind plausible deniability. It ends, a700, one way or the other.

Point out where I did that in this thread this morning, you delusional fool. My exchanges with OJ and SFF were respectful disagreements. Read back. None of the three of us went nuts. You jumped in and went nuts. Go take a nap, fool.

 

when something is administering a subtle poison, even the best possible time to apply the tourniquet is never really a good time.

^ Wow, I am pretty sure that you need to see a doctor.

[a700hitter]

Is this the type of improvement that JH had referred to earlier in the week?

The Red Sox might be interested in Mike Carp, Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe writes (on Twitter). Carp, who was recently designated for assignment by the Mariners, is a left-handed hitter with a career batting line of .255/.327/.413. The Red Sox have discussed Carp internally without deciding whether to pursue him, Peter Abraham of the Boston Globe reports (on Twitter).

[Lucienbel]

I think he can be an ocassional spot starter, but I don't think he is a great option if we have to hand him the ball 15 times. We can differ, but that's my opinion. He's never performed well outside of the role as swingman.

 

I'd have to agree. If he fills in for injuries he won't be bad, but beyond that he just becomes another question mark. He has the pitch assortment where theoretically he could start, but if he could hold up over time and do it well is an entirely different question.

[BSN07]

a700 does ridiculous. He does it well. His greatest genius is in finding ways to frame ridiculous statements so that they're rhetorically difficult to counter without playing into his hands and permitting him to label you. It's a media trick -- one of the oldest in the book. I dunno if a700 ever worked for a tabloid, but he probably should. It's sleazy, it's dishonest, I've seen it before and I hate it every time.

 

Putting him on ignore helps screen most of the BS around here. I would highly suggest it for your viewing pleasure.

[a700hitter]

Putting him on ignore helps screen most of the BS around here. I would highly suggest it for your viewing pleasure.

I applaud your action, but some around here will insult you for using the ignore feature.

[seabeachfred]

I have to wonder about a possible deal with KC centered around Brock Holt and one of their (IIRC pretty numerous) bullpen arms. Johnny Giavotella was supposed to be their guy. He hasn't even been close to good enough to this point, and Chris Getz wouldn't be the starting 2B for very many teams. They have to be looking for a solution at second base.

 

Regardless, I take KC seriously as a legit dark horse team this year. They're one more serious hitter, or serious step forward from one of their existing hitters, away from really starting to win some ballgames.

 

THe Royals FO would probably commit murder if that's what it took to bring Dustin Pedroia to KC. He or a player like him are precisely what they need precisely where they need it. If the Pedroia trade rumors last year had any legs to them at all, KC would have to be a bigtime candidate for a destination. They're probably the one team with enough of a desparate need, and enough really legitimate top prospect stock, to possibly get a deal done.

 

Trade Dustin Pedroia, the heart and soul of the Red So? If that rumor did have any legs then Lucchino and Company have to be the dumbest bastards on the planet. I hope you aren't talking such a trade up Dojii; I think you have better sense than to do that.

[SoxFanForsyth]

STOP DRINKING THE KOOL-AID! To say that De la Rosa, Webster, Wright, Aceves, etc are guys you can rely on for league average performance is f***ing insane. You have no idea what to expect from them, be honest. Morales is a guy you actually have a track record on, so he might be able to give you some useful innings, but his history shows that relying on him in the rotation is a problem.

 

I mean De La Rosa had success at the big league level in 2011 as a 22 year old. Not sure how that translates to "no track record". That's as good of a track record as you're going to get with a prospect.

 

Morales has 24 starts to a 4.34 ERA. Not sure how that's a problem. He posted 10 starts to a 4.12 ERA last year. Dumb comment.

 

Aceves has started 10 games and posted a 4.18 ERA.

 

You act as if I'm projecting these guys to be low 3's ERA starters. I'm not. I'm saying league average (2012 league average was a 4.40 ERA).

 

Projecting them to not be able to replicate their history just because you don't want them to be able to is as homer as it gets.